Trump to almost for sure end the Dreamers Program (illegal immigrants)

[pat34lee]

...and one in which little empathy exists...

Not for criminals. That would be a waste.
I have empathy for those who have to pay
for them, those who lose jobs to them and
mostly: victims of criminal illegals.
ICE releases 19,723 criminal illegals, 208 convicted of murder, 900 of sex crimes

 

[pat34lee]

As far as sending the dreamers away I think no law should be retroactive. If they have amnesty now then they should have it forever. There was a time when Constitutionally guaranteed rights actually meant something.

Obama had no more power to grant them amnesty than he
could make himself king. And citizens of other countries do
not have Constitutional rights, only basic human rights, which
include the right to be sent home. We don't even charge them
for the ride.

 

[TLK Valentine]

And citizens of other countries do not have Constitutional rights, only basic human rights, which
include the right to be sent home. We don't even charge them
for the ride.

Trial by Jury, to cite jut one example, is not a "basic human right," but one guaranteed by our Constitution, as are many of the others, to all persons, not just citizens.

 

[Desk trauma]

Wrong. It has been worked out before. The savings to
the city, state and federal governments will more than
pay for the deportation within a year or two, and we
will run a surplus after that.

Illegal immigration costs U.S. taxpayers about $113 billion a year at the federal, state and local level. The bulk of the costs — some $84 billion — are absorbed by state and local governments.
The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on United States Taxpayers (2013)

Based on previous analysis from the Center for American Progress, a mass deportation strategy would cost an average of $10,070 per person, for a total of $114 billion to remove 11.3 million people.
How Much Would It Cost to Deport All Undocumented Immigrants?

All this discounts the possibility of cutting off all government
aid, jobs, housing and schooling for illegals, and letting them
self-deport. Amend the Constitution to where only children
of legal citizens are legal citizens. No freebie for dropping a
kid over the border here.

Where's the spending bill to cover increasing the ICE and BP expenditures by 500%? What part of the federal budget will that money be taken from?

Not to even mention the wall boondoggle funding...

 

[mark kennedy]

Obama had no more power to grant them amnesty than he
could make himself king. And citizens of other countries do
not have Constitutional rights, only basic human rights, which
include the right to be sent home. We don't even charge them
for the ride.

Amnesty is as old as the hills, the Constitution and bill of rights applies to how the government wields power and how they get home is irrelevant.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Except Dreamer status must be renewed every two years -- and I don't think the government is going to be very accommodating when the status of current dreamers expires...

Legally, I don't think they have much choice.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Legally, I don't think they have much choice.

Right -- meaning getting "grandfathered in" doesn't amount to a whole lot. The clock is ticking.

 

[mark kennedy]

WRONG. TOTALLY.
As children of the citizens of those countries, they are
already citizens, just as children born to US citizens while
in other countries are citizens of the US.

No one is denying that, but their parents go back. It's unlikely they are just going to leave their children behind but hold on to that birth certificate or make arrangements with friends or family. That's a baby not a visa.

 

[Allandavid]

Not for criminals. That would be a waste.
I have empathy for those who have to pay
for them, those who lose jobs to them and
mostly: victims of criminal illegals.
ICE releases 19,723 criminal illegals, 208 convicted of murder, 900 of sex crimes

And how many criminals are there amongst the DACA people...?

 

[SolomonVII]

In terms of moral responsibility for criminal behavior, none of the dependants illegally smuggled into the country are criminals. Those who smuggled them into the country are the criminals who immoral acts have left those children in a precarious legal position. It is their acts of illegal cunning that have left ordinary Americans feeling compassion for the positon that they have put their children in

In terms of being unlawfully in America, all of these dependants smuggled into the country are in America unlawfully. They have no legal standing to be in America.

 

[Allandavid]

In terms of moral responsibility for criminal behavior, none of the dependants illegally smuggled into the country are criminals. Those who smuggled them into the country are the criminals who immoral acts have left those children in a precarious legal position. It is their acts of illegal cunning that have left ordinary Americans feeling compassion for the positon that they have put their children in

In terms of being unlawfully in America, all of these dependants smuggled into the country are in America unlawfully. They have no legal standing to be in America.

So tell me this...

I understand that many of these DACA people are serving in your military, or are working as first responders in disaster situations. Many of them would therefore be placing their lives on the line in service to their host country.

You comfortable in unceremoniously showing these people the door...? What of those who have recently signed up for a term of several years? You going to cause their units to be depleted?

 

[mark kennedy]

In terms of moral responsibility for criminal behavior, none of the dependants illegally smuggled into the country are criminals. Those who smuggled them into the country are the criminals who immoral acts have left those children in a precarious legal position. It is their acts of illegal cunning that have left ordinary Americans feeling compassion for the positon that they have put their children in

In terms of being unlawfully in America, all of these dependants smuggled into the country are in America unlawfully. They have no legal standing to be in America.

It's like some people have never heard that there is a Constitution:

Children of undocumented immigrants who were born in the United States become U.S. citizens automatically. The parent(s)' immigration status is not taken into account. This is due to the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which reads that:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside. (All Law)
​

Last time I checked the Constitution is the supreme law of the United States.

 

[pat34lee]

Trial by Jury, to cite jut one example, is not a "basic human right," but one guaranteed by our Constitution, as are many of the others, to all persons, not just citizens.

Where do you get that illegals have the right to a trial,
and not just a legal proceeding in front of a judge with
a rubber stamp?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Where do you get that illegals have the right to a trial,
and not just a legal proceeding in front of a judge with
a rubber stamp?

You didn't say "illegals," you said "non citizens" -- and all people -- citizen or not -- have a right to due process.

Shift goalposts much?

 

[pat34lee]

It's like some people have never heard that there is a Constitution:

Children of undocumented immigrants who were born in the United States become U.S. citizens automatically. The parent(s)' immigration status is not taken into account. This is due to the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which reads that:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside. (All Law)
​

Last time I checked the Constitution is the supreme law of the United States.

The 13th, 14th and 15th amendments had nothing to do with
illegal immigrants. They were all created for the black population
after the Civil War.

13 Abolished slavery
14 Made freed slaves citizens
15 Gave black citizens the right to vote

They need to modify the 14th or just void it since its job is done.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Right -- meaning getting "grandfathered in" doesn't amount to a whole lot. The clock is ticking.

Lol it means the same as it does to a guy who owns a full auto Uzi bought in 1980...

It means in spite of laws passed against it afterwards...he gets to keep it, so long as he followed the law.

Please though, you've got fear mongering to do...don't let sense or reason stop you.

 

[mark kennedy]

The 13th, 14th and 15th amendments had nothing to do with
illegal immigrants. They were all created for the black population
after the Civil War.

13 Abolished slavery
14 Made freed slaves citizens
15 Gave black citizens the right to vote

They need to modify the 14th or just void it since its job is done.

Well shall I organize the Constitutional Convention or would you like to take care of that for us?

 

[pat34lee]

You didn't say "illegals," you said "non citizens" -- and all people -- citizen or not -- have a right to due process.

Shift goalposts much?

Two things:
We were talking about illegals, not the outside world at large.
If they have a visa or green card, they have the permission of
the government to be here, which may not be citizenship, but
does give them certain privileges or rights.

You said "all persons" which includes illegals and invaders.

 

[pat34lee]

Well shall I organize the Constitutional Convention or would you like to take care of that for us?

We wouldn't even need that, just a SC decision saying
that the purpose was to make citizens of freed slaves,
not the child of every invader who crosses our borders
while pregnant.

 

[TLK Valentine]

The 13th, 14th and 15th amendments had nothing to do with
illegal immigrants. They were all created for the black population
after the Civil War.

13 Abolished slavery
14 Made freed slaves citizens
15 Gave black citizens the right to vote

They need to modify the 14th or just void it since its job is done.

You are free to rewrite the Constitution in any way you like to fit it in any alternative reality or fantasy world that you see fit.

However, if you're going to insist on discussing the laws of the land, then you're going to have to deal with the Constitution as it is actually written, as opposed to how you would like it to be written.

Happy legislating!