true worship

[foreal]

John 4:23-26
23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
24 "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
25 The woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us."
26 Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am He."
AND
Revelation 3: 15- 21
15 'I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot.
16 'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.
17 'Because you say, I am rich, and have become wealthy, and have need of nothing," and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked,
18 I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.
19 'Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.
20 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.
21 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
20 'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.
21 'He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

You may look at these 2 scripture references and wonder what they have in common. They both call for deeper intimacy with God

The first one with someone who knows very little of the hope found in Christ

The second is a church who basically “knew it all” or at least thought so, The Church of Laodicea to be exact, who had grown luke warm in its love for Christ.

Now I'll start… well... at the beginning

John 4
Before the selected passage Jesus is talking to the woman at the well. She is a Samaritan or in today’s terms someone in the al-Qaeda or one of Saddam Hussein’s sons etc. (I don't mean to be offensive I'm just trying to portray how the Samaritans were viewed by the Jews in Jesus’ day) essentially they were the most undesirable people a Jew could possibly associate themselves with. And Jesus asks for some water from the well then tells the woman about the eternal well of his abundant life. Then Jesus essentially calls her on her sin and to a relationship with him “But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.” She then responds "I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us." In other words I know sometime in the future there might be a hope or “Somewhere over the rainbow skies are blue things will be better 26 Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am He." What He is saying is I have given you an open door to walk with me will you answer? will you respond and act on the word I have just spoken into your life? Will you turn from what you were doing and “Pick up your cross and follow me?” will you stop looking to the future and trust in me now?

Revelation 3
In the first three chapters of revelation God is speaking to the angels of the seven churches. When he gets to the third chapter verse fifteen 15 'I know your deeds that you are neither cold nor hot; I wish that you were cold or hot. 16 'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth. The church had gotten so comfortable they had the mind set that they had no need of God. God says," and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked.” Come to me give me your heart store up treasure in heaven and I will purify you. I will burn out all impurities (though not a very pleasant thought it is absolutely essential to a deeper relationship with Christ). Then I will clothe you with purity, and open your spiritual eyes so you can see. I love you other wise I would not discipline you. So, come to me turn from your sin and live completely for me. 20 'Behold, I stand (59) at the door and (60) knock (I am a gentleman asking to get to know you better) if anyone hears My voice and opens the door (If anyone is willing to sacrifice pride, apathy, and fear of rejection from people) I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me. He is saying I will meet you with all you imperfections (when you open your heart) and I will show you who I am and my great love for you. I will show you who I am in a deeper way then you can ever know anyone else on earth. 21 '(62) He who overcomes, I will grant to him (63) to sit down with Me on My throne. We are MORE THAN CONQUERES in Christ. As Christians we have the same position in God as Jesus Christ has and when we get to heaven we WILL (NOT MIGHT) but WILL reign with him it’s a promise

Conclusion
A true worshipper is this Someone who allows Christ into there heart (Rev. 3:20) in such a way that they can worship in spirit and in truth (Jn. 4:23). Then Jesus can work in us and we can know him better for who he is. This is what he seeks and this is truly the only way you can worship him
(Jn. 4:24)

 

[christian-only]

But doesn't worship in truth mean that God has provided a set way to worship? As he always has.

 

[hola]

John 4:23-26

Conclusion
A true worshipper is this Someone who allows Christ into there heart (Rev. 3:20) in such a way that they can worship in spirit and in truth (Jn. 4:23). Then Jesus can work in us and we can know him better for who he is. This is what he seeks and this is truly the only way you can worship him
(Jn. 4:24)

I'll just comment on this, and what I believe the Lord has shown me recently. I'm not looking for a debate or to get into a whole bunch of other topics-I just want to focus on this conclusion.

Just as has been stated: (in a paraphrase) "The Father seeks those who will worship him in Spirit and in Truth." This is clearly pointing out the Trinity (The Father, Son (who is the Truth), and the Holy Spirit. Just as the "conclusion" said-it's about someone who allows Christ (and might I be more specific-the whole God-Head/Trinity), to come live in them. Remember Isaiah 61:3 "...that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the Lord, that he might be glorified." And remember the the Kingdom of God was described in a parable of the seed and the sower (Luke 8). And that seed represented the word of God (Luke 8:11)-and the Word of God is Jesus Christ himself!!!! (John 1:1-3, 14). And Jesus Christ is God (John 1:1-3, 14; 1 Timothy 3:16). And Jeremiah 33:16 says "...The Lord our righteousness," (and your interpretation of who is speaking-when it says "our" in Jeremiah 33:16 may be different than mine-but might I suggest that it represents the church/bride [or those saved] of Christ.) So we see if we have the Lord in us, who is described as a tree, and himself to be righteous (and remember the Kingdom of God is within you-Christ Jesus) we glorify God because Christ is in us!!! That is what I believe true worship is-in Spirit and in Truth. Not in spirit as in hype or emotion, and truth as merely a mental ascent to knowledge or facts-or even liturgy in itself or forms and formats of a "worship" service. It is God himself, in us, as the OP has stated.
Praise God.

 

[foreal]

I totally agree with you! We can not worship God unless we resopnd to christ in us moving and living in our hearts. That is what I am saying! Worship has nothing to do with what's going on in the oustside ( The lights, noise, or even how gifted the worship leader or who ever happens to be in aposition of authority) It has to do with our heart, soul mind and strength responding to Jesus in us.

 

[foreal]

But doesn't worship in truth mean that God has provided a set way to worship? As he always has.

It is true that God moves in certain ways, but I don't think that we can say he has "a set way" of doing things. After all the bible said in Joel that God will do a new thing. In other words He is teaching and introducing new ways of worship and I believe that worshiping in Spirit and in truth means allowing Christ in us to work and lead us to these new revelations of Gods goodness and ways of worshipping Him.

 

[christian-only]

(Heb 9:1) "Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary."

When he says that the first covenant ALSO had "ordinances of divine service" he implies that the New Covenant has "ordinances of divine service," And an ordinance is a statute, a set way of doing things, and "divine service" certainly indicates "worship." Now indeed, the ordinances of the New Covenant are different from those of the Old Covenant and are new in that sense, but when God said he would do a "new thing" he certainly didn't mean that he would leave us up to our own devices.

 

[NJA]

Regarding TRUE worship, Jesus said "the time is coming . . .referring to the fact that the Spirit "was not yet given" (John 7v39, 14v17) to anyone but Him. So for man generally, true worship began at Pentecost when ALL received the indwelling Spirit and spoke in tongues, which is "prayer in the Spirit", setting us free from our limited knowledge of God and His perfect will - Romans 8v26, 1 Cor. 14v2, 4, 14-18, Jude 19-21.

Then in meetings God gives "commandments" in 1 Corinthians 14:-
. . . ."all things done decently and in order", "the spirit of the
prophets are subject to the prophets", God does not "take people over" . . .we have:-
choruses/spiritual songs
tesimony by someone of what God has done for them
talk from the bible
hymn & communion (sunday meetings only)
2 or 3 gifts of tongues, each with interpretation
2 or 3 prophecies
prayer line (gifts of healing and faith)

Does anyone actually agree with that ?

 

[foreal]

Then in meetings God gives "commandments" in 1 Corinthians 14:-
. . . ."all things done decently and in order", "the spirit of the
prophets are subject to the prophets", God does not "take people over" . . .we have:-
choruses/spiritual songs
tesimony by someone of what God has done for them
talk from the bible
hymn & communion (sunday meetings only)
2 or 3 gifts of tongues, each with interpretation
2 or 3 prophecies
prayer line (gifts of healing and faith)

Does anyone actually agree with that ?

I agree that everything needs to be done in God's perfect order and timing. The context of this particular passage is that the church was getting so out of order that Paul needed to set some guidelines so that the Spirit of God could work.

 

[NJA]

The apostles didn't teach different things to different geographical churches:-
1Cor.14v33: For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
See also 7v17

So, worldwide we operate the same pattern.
Timing ? -
2Cor.6:2: . . . behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.

What happens where you worship ?

 

[foreal]

1Cor.14v33: For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
See also 7v17
2Cor.6:2: . . . behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.

I absoutly agree God is the author of peace, and order. I'm not disputing that and never will.
1 Corinthians 1:3 Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ.

Peace is:


1) a state of national tranquillity

a) exemption from the rage and havoc of war

2) peace between individuals, i.e. harmony, concord

3) security, safety, prosperity, felicity, (because peace and harmony make and keep things safe and prosperous)

4) of the Messiah's peace

a) the way that leads to peace (salvation)

5) of Christianity, the tranquil state of a soul assured of its salvation through Christ, and so fearing nothing from God and content with its earthly lot, of whatsoever sort that is 6) the blessed state of devout and upright men after death

 

[inHisgrip]

Every thing that we do is a form of worship. It doesn't have to be at church.
Helping a friend, working, grocery shopping, it should all be done for the Lord.
In Him

 

[foreal]

Every thing that we do is a form of worship. It doesn't have to be at church.
Helping a friend, working, grocery shopping, it should all be done for the Lord.
In Him

Recently God has been working in my in that very aspect. That is in everything do it to His glory and in his name. For example: I feel God putting it on my heart to talk to someone about Him to put all aside and do it without questioning. But not just that. Also acting and functioning in my everyday life in such a way that it will bring glory to His name.

 

[NJA]

I absoutly agree God is the author of peace, and order. I'm not disputing that and never will.
1 Corinthians 1:3 Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ.

Peace is:


1) a state of national tranquillity

a) exemption from the rage and havoc of war

2) peace between individuals, i.e. harmony, concord

3) security, safety, prosperity, felicity, (because peace and harmony make and keep things safe and prosperous)

4) of the Messiah's peace

a) the way that leads to peace (salvation)

5) of Christianity, the tranquil state of a soul assured of its salvation through Christ, and so fearing nothing from God and content with its earthly lot, of whatsoever sort that is 6) the blessed state of devout and upright men after death

So what happens where you worship ?
(remember we were talking about in meetings)