True meaning of the Immaculate Conception as not taught by the RCC

[One Of The Elect]

When Mary revealed she is the Immaculate conception to Bernadette Soubirous at the Lords apparition she did not reveal its meaning. Many religious scholars of the Roman Catholic Church have tried to interpret and give an exact meaning of it. Many have even rejected Mary saying this at the onset of this revelation. The true meaning is revealed now in this thread. The Rev. 12 sign means a time of revealing.
I have uploaded the meaning of the Immaculate Conception and The proof in scripture that Mary when the Holy Spirit came upon her became the full embodiment of Wisdom and it was at that moment that she was Immaculately Conceived . This will be in two uploads.
She should be venerated , it is through her that the graces given by Christ flow through her to us. Her soul magnifies the Lord and rejoices in God her Saviour. To Magnify: to bring ones view closer to the source of magnification, to make appear closer so as to see details of the source. It does not replace, remove , change or add to the source. The source is unmovable, unchanging, unaltered not replaced. Your heart just sees in greater detail the extraordinary qualities of God the Saviour more clearly.
She is a visitor of souls.
I will post rebuttals to and from Protestants of other forums who argue the Calvinist view of the Sins of Mary.
This will be a multi post thing.
Please have a bible on hand to follow along with the scripture provided.
First the True meaning of Immaculate Conception.
This was my first post on a Protestant forum which pretends it is non- denominational. They butchered up my post taking out stuff from it and placed a rebuttal. Saying Mary could not be immaculate. My next upload , when you read it is a rebuttal to their apology for butchering it up.
I am not trying to teach but I can not see how my understanding is wrong.
If you can not find my second thread please go to One Of The Elect and read the rebuttal thread in my content.
​

 

[disciple1]

When Mary revealed she is the Immaculate conception to Bernadette Soubirous at the Lords apparition she did not reveal its meaning. Many religious scholars of the Roman Catholic Church have tried to interpret and give an exact meaning of it. Many have even rejected Mary saying this at the onset of this revelation. The true meaning is revealed now in this thread. The Rev. 12 sign means a time of revealing.
I have uploaded the meaning of the Immaculate Conception and The proof in scripture that Mary when the Holy Spirit came upon her became the full embodiment of Wisdom and it was at that moment that she was Immaculately Conceived . This will be in two uploads.
She should be venerated , it is through her that the graces given by Christ flow through her to us. Her soul magnifies the Lord and rejoices in God her Saviour. To Magnify: to bring ones view closer to the source of magnification, to make appear closer so as to see details of the source. It does not replace, remove , change or add to the source. The source is unmovable, unchanging, unaltered or replaced. Your heart just sees in greater detail the extraordinary qualities of God the Saviour more clearly.
She is a visitor of souls.
I will post rebuttals to and from Protestants of other forums who argue the Calvinist view of the Sins of Mary.
This will be a multi post thing.
Please have a bible on hand to follow along with the scripture provided.
First the True meaning of Immaculate Conception.
This was my first post on a Protestant forum which pretends it is non- denominational. They butchered up my post taking out stuff from it and placed a rebuttal. Saying Mary could not be immaculate. My next upload , when you read it is a rebuttal to their apology for butchering it up.
I am not trying to teach but I can not see how my understanding is wrong.
​

This is Elizabeth speaking John the Baptists mother.
Luke chapter 1 verse 42
In a loud voice she exclaimed: "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear!

But Mary is just a women and she sinned as much as anyone of her time.

 

[One Of The Elect]

y

This is Elizabeth speaking John the Baptists mother.
Luke chapter 1 verse 42
In a loud voice she exclaimed: "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear!

But Mary is just a women and she sinned as much as anyone of her time.

You obviously read nothing ! Speak upon matters you are informed about.

 

[redleghunter]

You should make your arguments here in the text boxes and not rely on attachments or blogs to make your argument. You can provide supporting documentation however what you have in the original post are assertions and then tell us to go to a link or attachment.

So recommend showing us your argument here. No one likes to click on stuff to figure out what you are saying.

Why? Because it is usually dry propaganda and furthers the assertion with no argument.

Also you are on a Protestant/Evangelical site. You should know well anything you post in support of Holy Scriptures must meet exegetical standards. Usually RC polemics here assert the Catholic view must be right because it is Catholic. That ship won't float here and you need to apply exegesis. Normally Catholics use the Bible to assert their doctrines. They do so via eisegesis.

This will help you to navigate this site better:

We either handle Sacred Scriptures by drawing out the meaning of the text or we try to apply our ideas and stuff them into the text.

Exegesis is the exposition or explanation of a text based on a careful, objective analysis. The word exegesis literally means “to lead out of.” That means that the interpreter is led to his conclusions by following the text.

Eisegesis is the interpretation of a passage based on a subjective, non-analytical reading. The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.

Obviously, only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words.

What is the difference between exegesis and eisegesis?

 

[redleghunter]

y


You obviously read nothing ! Speak upon matters you are informed about.

You have not made a cogent argument yet. The OP are assertions. No one is going to go to another link or attachment to try to figure out your argument.

There's a difference between an argument and an assertion. An argument actually has evidence in support.

You have not formed an argument here and we will wait until you do.

 

[One Of The Elect]

You should make your arguments here in the text boxes and not rely on attachments or blogs to make your argument. You can provide supporting documentation however what you have in the original post are assertions and then tell us to go to a link or attachment.

So recommend showing us your argument here. No one likes to click on stuff to figure out what you are saying.

Why? Because it is usually dry propaganda and furthers the assertion with no argument.

Also you are on a Protestant/Evangelical site. You should know well anything you post in support of Holy Scriptures must meet exegetical standards. Usually RC polemics here assert the Catholic view must be right because it is Catholic. That ship won't float here and you need to apply exegesis. Normally Catholics use the Bible to assert their doctrines. They do so via eisegesis.

This will help you to navigate this site better:

We either handle Sacred Scriptures by drawing out the meaning of the text or we try to apply our ideas and stuff them into the text.

Exegesis is the exposition or explanation of a text based on a careful, objective analysis. The word exegesis literally means “to lead out of.” That means that the interpreter is led to his conclusions by following the text.

Eisegesis is the interpretation of a passage based on a subjective, non-analytical reading. The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.

Obviously, only exegesis does justice to the text. Eisegesis is a mishandling of the text and often leads to a misinterpretation. Exegesis is concerned with discovering the true meaning of the text, respecting its grammar, syntax, and setting. Eisegesis is concerned only with making a point, even at the expense of the meaning of words.

What is the difference between exegesis and eisegesis?

 

[One Of The Elect]

You have not made a cogent argument yet. The OP are assertions. No one is going to go to another link or attachment to try to figure out your argument.

There's a difference between an argument and an assertion. An argument actually has evidence in support.

You have not formed an argument here and we will wait until you do.

I said what needed to be said . If you read the pdfs then every one knows what you are responding to. Scripture supports my argument. You do not. That is your choice. And this is the right place to discuss Mary Mother of our Saviour. This is controversial.

It should be spoken of and discussed. She was part of the church at its inception. She new who Christ was before you , I or anyone on earth new. Again she is part of the church she always was and always will be. If you want to argue your point with me go right ahead. I know what you are talking about. If you have not read thoroughly what I posted through the option provided to upload a file, what do you want me to tell you? that is your choice. Knowledge is Power. We can only argue against something that we are thoroughly informed of, or argue for that which we are informed of.

 

[redleghunter]

?

 

[redleghunter]

I said what needed to be said . I

Where? You posted an assertion and told us to have our Bibles ready. Yet you posted no Biblical sources in your OP.

And no, attaching a file is not an argument.

Why can't you take the finer points of the argument (if one exists) post it in the OP and off to the races we go.

Most people don't have time to read read long propaganda pdfs and then have to reformulate the answer here where other people haven't a clue of what is going on.

You do realize this is a discussion forum and not a formal debate thread.

Even so, when I debated at the Jesuit university I attended, we did not walk up to the dais, make a statement and then tell our opponents to read a position paper. We actually had to argue our points. You are not doing that here nor are you even engaging in argumentative open dialogue.

So why bother.

Here's my answer to your assertion.

The Mary of Roman Catholicism is absent in Sacred Scriptures and the NT church.

Now prove me wrong.

See how that works.

 

[One Of The Elect]

You have not made a cogent argument yet. The OP are assertions. No one is going to go to another link or attachment to try to figure out your argument.

There's a difference between an argument and an assertion. An argument actually has evidence in support.

You have not formed an argument here and we will wait until you do.

Israel's sign is not a universal pagan symbol of a 6 pointed star, six sided hexigon and six triangles. This was chosen and established by the Rothschilds. The sign of true Jewish lineage is first Yeshua but historically speaking it is the Menorah.

 

[One Of The Elect]

This is Elizabeth speaking John the Baptists mother.
Luke chapter 1 verse 42
In a loud voice she exclaimed: "Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the child you will bear!

But Mary is just a women and she sinned as much as anyone of her time.

This verse is speaking of Elisabeth and the receiving of the Holy Spirit by her through Mary from Christ. So that what was spoken concerning John the baptist would be true. He would have the Holy Spirit from his mother's womb. And Christ said of Him of men born to women none is greater than John the Baptist. But even the lest of men is greater than he. When did Elisabeth receive the Holy Spirit? I t was in her sixth month. I find this funny, When I think about John's concern in baptizing Christ, he said: ( of course I am paraphrasing) But I know scripture pretty well THANK YOU JESUS!, he said " It is I who should be baptized by you" Christ did baptize him first, it happened at the visitation of Mary to Elisabeth. How MIGHTY ARE YOUR WORKS LORD. HOW GLORIOUS IS YOUR POWER AND NAME.

 

[One Of The Elect]

Where? You posted an assertion and told us to have our Bibles ready. Yet you posted no Biblical sources in your OP.

And no, attaching a file is not an argument.

Why can't you take the finer points of the argument (if one exists) post it in the OP and off to the races we go.

Most people don't have time to read read long propaganda pdfs and then have to reformulate the answer here where other people haven't a clue of what is going on.

You do realize this is a discussion forum and not a formal debate thread.

Even so, when I debated at the Jesuit university I attended, we did not walk up to the dais, make a statement and then tell our opponents to read a position paper. We actually had to argue our points. You are not doing that here nor are you even engaging in argumentative open dialogue.

So why bother.

Here's my answer to your assertion.

The Mary of Roman Catholicism is absent in Sacred Scriptures and the NT church.

Now prove me wrong.

See how that works.

You must not have read the accompanying post. Which I said is my response- to a false non- denominational forum that was actual Protestant. What does immaculate mean in a dictionary? I' ll answer it for you: Immaculate- without stain or blemish, spotlessly clean. The Best Dictionary For Students, Knowledge is Power.Was the conception of Christ spotless , without stain or blemish? would she have to be made spotless to carry and care for Christ. Do you know what the anointing of the Holy Spirit is. Was she anointed? Could Christ be put in a defiled vessel. Why did she have to be a virgin?

The ark of the covenant housed stoned tablets and the Torah, was that a Holy vessel. Is a vessel as holy as what is carries and possesses. Who is God the Father's greatest possession? Is a gold inlaid wooden vessel more important than the human vessel which through Christ is revealed to be the true temple of the living God? was Mary Holy? This is elementary.
Are we suppose to be an Immaculate Church? Yes? Where is the word spotless and without blemish in scripture? Rev 14 this concerns those 144,000 who follow the lamb wherever He goes. Rev 14: 4-5, at the end it says-" in their mouth was found no lie for the are SPOTLESS." Does Immaculate mean spotless?

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Israel's sign is not a universal pagan symbol of a 6 pointed star, six sided hexigon and six triangles. This was chosen and established by the Rothschilds. The sign of true Jewish lineage is first Yeshua but historically speaking it is the Menorah.

What is this? RLH challanged you to actually provide an argument, since all you have done is make assertions and attack the forum and provide an attachment, and then you present this spiel about the "Star of David" as an argument?

Then I am unable to copy more than one line at a time from your PDF. But for the sake of others to know what they are been shot at with, here are excerpts with the essence of this effluence of anti-ecclesiastical (RCC and Prot.) antagonism:

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that Mary was kept free of original sin in preparation for the coming of Christ. This contradicts what she herself said in her song. She said HER SOUL REJOICES IN GOD HER SAVIOR. However, when the Holy Spirit came upon her she was instantly born again- therefore, immaculately conceived. Unknown to most people; being born again is to be immaculately conceived.. Immaculate: without stain or blemish, spotlessly clean. This is what the Elect will become. She first then us.

Christ is truly God come in the flesh - whose flesh? Miriam's flesh. Regardless of denomination this simple fact can not be ignored. To blaspheme Mary is to be of the spirit of antichrist...It is by this profession (CHRIST HAS COME IN THE FLESH)- that all spirits are tested... THE REVELATION12 SIGN IS A BIG DEAL. Christ took on Mary's flesh, therefore her DNA.... GOD CHOSE HER FLESH TO DESIGN HIS SIGN IN... The Protestants are very disrespectful to Mary. They hate any veneration of her.

My next upload is a rebuttal on a Protestant forum that pretends its non- denominational then attacks you when you mention Mary Mother of our Lord.. One thing I will add concerning false teachings of the RCC Mary is not Co-Redemptrix . Redemption comes only through Christ and the payment on the Cross.

 

[One Of The Elect]

What is this? RLH challanged you to actually provide an argument, since all you have done is make assertions and attack the forum and provide an attachment, and then you present this spiel about the "Star of David" as an argument?

Then I am unable to copy more than one line at a time from your PDF. But for the sake of others to know what they are been shot at with, here are excerpts with the essence of this effluence of anti-ecclesiastical (RCC and Prot.) antagonism:

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that Mary was kept free of original sin in preparation for the coming of Christ. This contradicts what she herself said in her song. She said HER SOUL REJOICES IN GOD HER SAVIOR. However, when the Holy Spirit came upon her she was instantly born again- therefore, immaculately conceived. Unknown to most people; being born again is to be immaculately conceived.. Immaculate: without stain or blemish, spotlessly clean. This is what the Elect will become. She first then us.

Christ is truly God come in the flesh - whose flesh? Miriam's flesh. Regardless of denomination this simple fact can not be ignored. To blaspheme Mary is to be of the spirit of antichrist...It is by this profession (CHRIST HAS COME IN THE FLESH)- that all spirits are tested... THE REVELATION12 SIGN IS A BIG DEAL. Christ took on Mary's flesh, therefore her DNA.... GOD CHOSE HER FLESH TO DESIGN HIS SIGN IN... The Protestants are very disrespectful to Mary. They hate any veneration of her.

My next upload is a rebuttal on a Protestant forum that pretends its non- denominational then attacks you when you mention Mary Mother of our Lord.. One thing I will add concerning false teachings of the RCC Mary is not Co-Redemptrix . Redemption comes only through Christ and the payment on the Cross.

All people have to do is go to my content and download my pdfs. You can post partials all you want. People can make their minds up as to whether or not they agree. You do not have to accept what I posted. I have a right as do you or anyone to share what we believe about Christian doctrines of all denominations. It is not an exclusive forum for people who only think like you. This is a debate forum in which you are given an option to upload or not. I am not antagonizing anyone. I think you hope someone agrees with you and removes my post. I simply shared a rebuttal to a Protestant who rejects scripture concerning Mary. Protestants interpret dialogue concerning her differently than RCC and some non denominational people do. I read stuff all the time here attacking RC's and Orthodox by Protestants. That is part of the make up of Protestants.

It is what it is. I am attacked all the time even though I am non denominational. I am not defending myself but scriptural support for Mary and her importance to the Body of Christ. Not everything Christ said was flowery and complementary. Sometimes His words were raw and cutting. This is a controversial forum for dialogue on touchy subjects. I have thick skin, I am no wall flower I can take yours are anyone's rebuttals for the weight they are worth. You are entitled to your opinion. I love Yeshua, I love Mary and what God did through her, I love the Body of Christ which she is a part of. She was at its inception, she was the inception by her God sent the Birth of Christianity. People can make their own opinions by reading my uploads. God Bless!

 

[PeaceByJesus]

Christ is truly God come in the flesh - whose flesh? Miriam's flesh.

So are you saying the Lord Jesus had all the same chromosomes as Mary? Or Jesus did inherit only half his DNA from Mary? , God bought the church with His own blood, (Acts 20:28) are you saying this was the blood of Mary? Or does Jesus owe His blood to Mary?

Where is Mary even mentioned after Acts 1 (Rv. 12 being an interpretation Catholics even differ on) if believing that Jesus Christ came in Miriam's flesh in some specific way is so critical?

 

[PeaceByJesus]

All people have to do is go to my content and download my pdfs. You can post partials all you want. People can make their minds up as to whether or not they agree. You do not have to accept what I posted. I have a right as do you or anyone to share what we believe about Christian doctrines of all denominations. It is not an exclusive forum for people who only think like you. This is a debate forum in which you are given an option to upload or not. I am not antagonizing anyone. I think you hope someone agrees with you and removes my post. I simply shared a rebuttal to a Protestant who rejects scripture concerning Mary. Protestants interpret dialogue concerning her differently than RCC and some non denominational people do. I read stuff all the time here attacking RC's and Orthodox by Protestants. That is part of the make up of Protestants.

It is what it is. I am attacked all the time even though I am non denominational. I am not defending myself but scriptural support for Mary and her importance to the Body of Christ. Not everything Christ said was flowery and complementary. Sometimes His words were raw and cutting. This is a controversial forum for dialogue on touchy subjects. I have thick skin, I am no wall flower I can take yours are anyone's rebuttals for the weight they are worth. You are entitled to your opinion. I love Yeshua, I love Mary and what God did through her, I love the Body of Christ which she is a part of. She was at its inception, she was the inception by her God sent the Birth of Christianity. People can make their own opinions by reading my uploads. God Bless!

So since you just want people to read your library and fail to actually present your arguments in posts then you may be abandoned like a blog pimp.

 

[One Of The Elect]

So are you saying the Lord Jesus had all the same chromosomes as Mary? Or Jesus did inherit only half his DNA from Mary? , God bought the church with His own blood, (Acts 20:28) are you saying this was the blood of Mary? Or does Jesus owe His blood to Mary?

Where is Mary even mentioned after Acts 1 (Rv. 12 being an interpretation Catholics even differ on) if believing that Jesus Christ came in Miriam's flesh in some specific way is so critical?

Really, is that all you have to bring to the table? Whole or half of DNA.

 

[One Of The Elect]

So since you just want people to read your library and fail to actually present your arguments in posts then you may be abandoned like a blog pimp.

Surprised you even said that, I know you didn't get that from scripture. And your worried about me using scriptural support for my claims. That is Funny.

 

[redleghunter]

Israel's sign is not a universal pagan symbol of a 6 pointed star, six sided hexigon and six triangles. This was chosen and established by the Rothschilds. The sign of true Jewish lineage is first Yeshua but historically speaking it is the Menorah.

What does this have to do with the immaculate conception?

 

[redleghunter]

This verse is speaking of Elisabeth and the receiving of the Holy Spirit by her through Mary from Christ. So that what was spoken concerning John the baptist would be true. He would have the Holy Spirit from his mother's womb. And Christ said of Him of men born to women none is greater than John the Baptist. But even the lest of men is greater than he. When did Elisabeth receive the Holy Spirit? I t was in her sixth month. I find this funny, When I think about John's concern in baptizing Christ, he said: ( of course I am paraphrasing) But I know scripture pretty well THANK YOU JESUS!, he said " It is I who should be baptized by you" Christ did baptize him first, it happened at the visitation of Mary to Elisabeth. How MIGHTY ARE YOUR WORKS LORD. HOW GLORIOUS IS YOUR POWER AND NAME.

So now Filioque applies to Mary? I'm sure the Eastern Orthodox disagree.
By your own church this is blasphemy.