True Justification, works of the Law of Moses, & Conditional Security

stuart lawrence · Nov 16, 2015

Some folks seem to think you need a law of righteousness in place so people will obey God
In other words, if you remove a law of righteousness people will then happily sin as much ad they like. Well the ones who don't love God would, not the ones who do.
If you in your heart love God and want to obey him you do not need a law of righteousness in place to make you obey. For no one seeks to offend the one they truly love.
But those who only want to be a christian to avoid hell, not because they love God would need a law of righteousness in place. But it won't do them any good! If they don't live God in their heart they will not attain heaven

ToBeLoved · Nov 16, 2015

stuart lawrence said:
Some folks seem to think you need a law of righteousness in place so people will obey God
In other words, if you remove a law of righteousness people will then happily sin as much ad they like. Well the ones who don't love God would, not the ones who do.
If you in your heart love God and want to obey him you do not need a law of righteousness in place to make you obey. For no one seeks to offend the one they truly love.
But those who only want to be a christian to avoid hell, not because they love God would need a law of righteousness in place. But it won't do them any good! If they don't live God in their heart they will not attain heaven

They do not understand the power of the most important commandment to change us from within which flows to all of our being.

My recommendation is that they try to love God more and maybe they can understand where we are coming from. It is obvious that if they see God changing us out of love that they are lacking in the first and most important commandment right out of the mouth of Jesus Christ, Himself.

Matthew 22:36-37
Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.

ToBeLoved · Nov 16, 2015

What I really think is that they are playing both sides of the fence.

EmSw · Nov 16, 2015

stuart lawrence said:
Some folks seem to think you need a law of righteousness in place so people will obey God
In other words, if you remove a law of righteousness people will then happily sin as much ad they like. Well the ones who don't love God would, not the ones who do.
If you in your heart love God and want to obey him you do not need a law of righteousness in place to make you obey. For no one seeks to offend the one they truly love.
But those who only want to be a christian to avoid hell, not because they love God would need a law of righteousness in place. But it won't do them any good! If they don't live God in their heart they will not attain heaven

Romans 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Is the righteousness of the law fulfilled in you?

klutedavid · Nov 16, 2015

Hello all.

1 Timothy 1:9
realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless
and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill
their fathers or mothers, for murderers.

JLB777 · Nov 16, 2015

Open Heart said:
Didn't John the apostle prophecy after John the Baptist? No matter which way you swing it, I think you are misunderstanding the verse. Just munch on this a while and in several months come back to me.

John is an Apostle.

Again Jesus said the law and the prophets were until...

Also -

Not one jot or tittle until...

The law was added until...

The Levitical Priesthood being abolished is a little more than a jot or tittle... Because until has come.

JLB

stuart lawrence · Nov 17, 2015

EmSw said:
Romans 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Is the righteousness of the law fulfilled in you?

Are you claiming you always without fail perfectly follow after the holy spirit?
I admit I fail at times, but I have a conscience when I do so for the holy spirit dwells in me, therefore I am saved(rom8:9) But I am a child of God, he loves me, I am secure in his love for me.
As you know, God sets himself against the proud but strengthens the humble)
If we love God we have no need of a law of righteousness for when we fail we feel bad, our conscience hurts us, for the law has been placed on our heart.
As a christian counsellor said to me.
Those who are painfully aware of their short comings are definitely saved, those who think they are doing very well he is less sure about

stuart lawrence · Nov 17, 2015

klutedavid said:
Hello all.

1 Timothy 1:9
realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless
and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill
their fathers or mothers, for murderers.

If only most in this thread could understand the scripture you have quoted, but alas

stuart lawrence · Nov 17, 2015

[QUOTE="stuart lawrence, post: 68869261, member: 3816humble[/QUOTE]

Meowzltov · Nov 17, 2015

JLB777 said:
John is an Apostle.

Again Jesus said the law and the prophets were until...

until John the Baptist. So how come John the apostle prophecied after John the Baptist?

JLB777 · Nov 17, 2015

Open Heart said:
until John the Baptist. So how come John the apostle prophecied after John the Baptist?

A lot of people prophesied after John, as there are Apostles and Prophets today in Church Government.

The law and Prophets was a reference to the old testament writings, foreseeing The Christ and the New Covenant, in which the Kingdom of God is preached.

JLB

Bible Highlighter · Nov 17, 2015

stuart lawrence said:
.
As a christian counsellor said to me.
Those who are painfully aware of their short comings are definitely saved, those who think they are doing very well he is less sure about

Christian counselors are not above the authority of the Word of God. God gives grace to those who are humble. Yes, a believer can honestly struggle with sin. But if a believer takes light of their sin and does not deal with it properly before God, then they are in big trouble with God. Judas was aware of his sin or shortcoming. But Judas did not take the right action in the end. He committed suicide instead of repenting of his sins.

...

ToBeLoved · Nov 17, 2015

Jason0047 said:
Christian counselors are not above the authority of the Word of God. God gives grace to those who are humble. Yes, a believer can honestly struggle with sin. But if a believer takes light of their sin and does not deal with it properly before God, then they are in big trouble with God. Judas was aware of his sin or shortcoming. But Judas did not take the right action in the end. He committed suicide instead of repenting of his sins.

...

But who says that a believer takes light their sin? I think that has been your argument for many, many pages. Even though you have been corrected over and over.

Is that all you have? Is that unless someone is like you and believes like you do that they do not take sin seriously? Why can't you get real and look at reality? You cannot fathom that anyone can not want to sin just because they love God. Really? I know you cannot understand and WHAT EXACTLY DOES THAT SAY ABOUT YOU? Think about it.

How many across the board, blanket statements must you make to prove your point?

The mind is an odd thing, we can convince ourselves of anything. Case in point. You cannot see how truly sad your faith is. How you have missed the mark on the first and MOST IMPORTANT COMMANDMENT. You need to do some soul searching and study, because you are the type of Christian who plays both sides of salvation which is the worst kind.

And to the degree that you judge others, that is the degree of judgement you bring upon yourself. The Word tells us that so be careful because you have a lot of judgement going on brother.

stuart lawrence · Nov 17, 2015

Jason0047 said:
Christian counselors are not above the authority of the Word of God. God gives grace to those who are humble. Yes, a believer can honestly struggle with sin. But if a believer takes light of their sin and does not deal with it properly before God, then they are in big trouble with God. Judas was aware of his sin or shortcoming. But Judas did not take the right action in the end. He committed suicide instead of repenting of his sins.

...

Another post showing you do not understand the new covenant
Christian counsellors understand the devestating consequences of a believer only having the first half of the covenant known to them
You don't understand what I am saying do you

Bible Highlighter · Nov 17, 2015

ToBeLoved said:
But who says that a believer takes light their sin? I think that has been your argument for many, many pages. Even though you have been corrected over and over.

Is that all you have? Is that unless someone is like you and believes like you do that they do not take sin seriously? Why can't you get real and look at reality? You cannot fathom that anyone can not want to sin just because they love God. Really? I know you cannot understand and WHAT EXACTLY DOES THAT SAY ABOUT YOU? Think about it.

How many across the board, blanket statements must you make to prove your point?

The mind is an odd thing, we can convince ourselves of anything. Case in point. You cannot see how truly sad your faith is. How you have missed the mark on the first and MOST IMPORTANT COMMANDMENT. You need to do some soul searching and study, because you are the type of Christian who plays both sides of salvation which is the worst kind.

It is a logical conclusion that a believer will naturally take light of their sin on some level if they do not think their sin does not play any part in regards to their salvation. It would sort of be like giving a people a cure all drug that would cause them to never lose weight no matter what they had ate. The people who took this drug would lead more of people to eat whatever they wanted because there are no more consequences to their bad eating habits anymore.

...

Bible Highlighter · Nov 17, 2015

stuart lawrence said:
Another post showing you do not understand the new covenant
Christian counsellors understand the devestating consequences of a believer only having the first half of the covenant known to them
You don't understand what I am saying do you

And I will pray for you.

...

stuart lawrence · Nov 17, 2015

ToBeLoved said:
But who says that a believer takes light their sin? I think that has been your argument for many, many pages. Even though you have been corrected over and over.

Is that all you have? Is that unless someone is like you and believes like you do that they do not take sin seriously? Why can't you get real and look at reality? You cannot fathom that anyone can not want to sin just because they love God. Really? I know you cannot understand and WHAT EXACTLY DOES THAT SAY ABOUT YOU? Think about it.

How many across the board, blanket statements must you make to prove your point?

The mind is an odd thing, we can convince ourselves of anything. Case in point. You cannot see how truly sad your faith is. How you have missed the mark on the first and MOST IMPORTANT COMMANDMENT. You need to do some soul searching and study, because you are the type of Christian who plays both sides of salvation which is the worst kind.

And to the degree that you judge others, that is the degree of judgement you bring upon yourself. The Word tells us that so be careful because you have a lot of judgement going on brother.

Jason doesn't understand what it means to be born again. Many times he had been asked to explain it but never has. Being born again cuts out the licence to sin. We can only hope that one day the light of truth dawns on him

stuart lawrence · Nov 17, 2015

Jason0047 said:
And I will pray for you.

...

Thank you Jason, but it is you that needs to understand the true Gospel message. You are far too limited in what you know, for all you have is the literal letter, not the true message that letter contains

nobdysfool · Nov 17, 2015

Jason0047 said:
It is a logical conclusion that a believer will naturally take light of their sin on some level if they do not think their sin does not play any part in regards to their salvation. It would sort of be like giving a people a cure all drug that would cause them to never lose weight no matter what they had ate. The people who took this drug would lead more of people to eat whatever they wanted because there are no more consequences to their bad eating habits anymore.

...

It's sad that you have such a dim view of the people whom God has redeemed, washed in Christ's Blood, forgiven, and justified. You seem to assume that they just aren't up to being a Christian. All except yourself, of course. It frustrates you that no one else here is giving your view any real traction, mostly because we can see it is flawed, negative, and does not reflect a true and accurate understanding of the Word of God.

ToBeLoved · Nov 17, 2015

Jason0047 said:
It is a logical conclusion that a believer will naturally take light of their sin on some level if they do not think their sin does not play any part in regards to their salvation. It would sort of be like giving a people a cure all drug that would cause them to never lose weight no matter what they had ate. The people who took this drug would lead more of people to eat whatever they wanted because there are no more consequences to their bad eating habits anymore.

...

How can you compare the love of God to anything else.

That is your problem Jason, you for some reason do not understand deep love. A love that changes someone. A love that chooses God over themself. You just cannot fathom it.

What happened in your childhood that made you so logical and not spiritual? You read the Bible without any spiritual insight, without realizing that there is spiritual and carnal. God tells us to be in the spirit and not of ourselves and our own carnal, selfish nature.

Can you not see that God Himself came to earth, not as a King, but as a servant. One who washed the feet of His disciples. One who gave everything to others.

What part of Jesus Christ do you see in yourself?

Jesus was in constant communion with the Father. In prayer.

Where is the disconnect with you? I cannot figure it out.

True Justification, works of the Law of Moses, & Conditional Security

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