True Justification, works of the Law of Moses, & Conditional Security

ToBeLoved · Nov 8, 2015

So we are made holy and righteouss, again and again and again.

And we go out and do better. And fall, the Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin. We get cleansed of unrighteoussness and repent.

And we go out and do better.

Then the entire process happens again.

But. those who seek spiritual things are edified by this experience. We learn and grow and seek the spiritual things. And God strengthens us.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Him who strengthens me

And we learn to seek the strength of Jesus instead of our own strength. We learn that through Him, we have strength and we have rest.

We grown in spiritual things. We grow in our relationship with CHrist. We walk WITH Christ each day and depend on HIS STRENGTH not ours. We walk in faith in Him, not by sight. We let Him drive the bus and we become His servants to do His will on earth as it will be in heaven.

That's what I believe.

ToBeLoved · Nov 8, 2015

Jason0047 said:
Hebrews 12:14 says without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. Peter even tells us to ... "BE HOLY in all manner of conduct."

"Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he who has called you is holy, so be holy in all manner of conduct; Because it is written, You will be holy; for I am holy." (1 Peter 1:13-16).

Peter does not say strive to be holy in all manner of conduct (even though you really can't do it). Peter does not say that. Peter says "BE HOLY... in all manner of conduct."

....

But if we repent, GOD has told us that He will forgive our sins.

So, In Christ which of us is not holy? Which of us after the blood of Jesus Christ has forgiven us of our sins and cleansed us from ALL unrighteousness would be denied?

Of course we are to be holy because our Lord is holy.

But did Jesus leave us all alone to be holy by ourselves?

No, we have the mind of Christ and the Holy Spirit.

Becoming sanctified is a process. It is walking in the spiritual things and GROWING in Christ. As we grow in Christ, through the forgiveness of sin, listen to the Holy Spirit and become a lover of spiritual things, RATHER than the carnal things of this world and of our flesh, we become more holy. That is sanctification. Until the day we die we are on a road of sanctification towards holiness. We don't ever reach it, but that is our road, to become holy.

And after we die. We are given new bodies and the full inheritance of Christ and we will be holy. But that is not on this earth.

ToBeLoved · Nov 8, 2015

Jason0047 said:
Repentance is feeling sorrowful over one's sin whereby one turns to God and away from sin. Are you trying to say that you do not have to feel sorrowful over sin and not bring forth fruits worthy of repentance?
...

I am saying that in that specific situation with the woman who committed adultery, she was forgiven by Christ. God Himself. Jesus decided and He forgave her.

Are you going to deny that Jesus Christ was holy and could have forgiven her without repentence?

It is not God's law that we repent. God wants us to repent because then WE see our sin and we turn away. That is part of becoming sanctified. That is why God wants us to repent. It is for us, not God.

Now, there are consequences of sin in our lives. This is NOT God's wrath on us for sin but natural consequences that come.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 8, 2015

I don't believe you because you have to ignore half of the New Testament or all it's Commands

ToBeLoved said:
Yes. Very true.

Because we have the mind of Christ and the Holy Spirit God dwelling within us.

Notice that it says that we are not to walk after the flesh but after the Spirit. The Holy Spirit who convicts us of our sin. If we listen to the Holy Spirit when He convicts us of our sin, what would we do?

We would feel sorry, repent and not want to do it again.

So what happens at that point?

1 John 1:9
"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

So at that point. We are once again clean vessels cleansed of all unrighteousness by the blood of Jesus Christ. Now notice it is not us who is fair and just, but Jesus Christ. That is how we know that it is true. Because it is GOD"S LAW that when His Children repent that He will cleanse them of ALL unrighteousness.

So the righteousness of God is then fulfilled in us when we go forth and are better. Trying not to commit that sin again and LISTENING to the Holy SPirit who is there to convict us of sin.

Why?

So when we sin we come back to Jesus Christ to be forgiven and cleansed again. Then to go out and do better.

That is sanctification. That God's Word written on our minds and hearts combined with the Holy Spirit residing in each of God's Children will convict us of our sin so we seek repentance and turn from sin. Coming back to Christ in repentance, being cleansed of all our sins and made once again righteous and to go out and do better. BUT if we fall and sin, we have the promise that if we come back to Jesus that HE is FAIR AND JUST to Cleanse us of ALL unrighteoussness.

Then you really do not need a Bible telling you what you are going to automatically do then. The Bible is telling you what to do (giving you a choice between that which is good or evil). Yes, the new-birth does help us to walk holy and Christ working in us does the actual work (if we surrender to Him), but we are not love puppets after accepting Christ. We still have free will.

....

ToBeLoved · Nov 8, 2015

Jason0047 said:
I don't believe you because you have to ignore half of the New Testament or all it's Commands
Then you really do not need a Bible telling you what you are going to automatically do then. The Bible is telling you what to do (giving you a choice between that which is good or evil). Yes, the new-birth does help us to walk holy and Christ working in us does the actual work (if we surrender to Him), but we are not love puppets after accepting Christ. We still have free will.

....

Where did I even indicate slightly that we are love puppets?

If we love God then we are very, very motivated by that love.

Why do you think that the MOST important commandment per Jesus Christ, God Himself is to love the Lord your God with ALL your heart, soul and mind.

I am not getting at all what you are saying.

Which sentences in that post are you specifically referring to?

Bible Highlighter · Nov 8, 2015

ToBeLoved said:
I am saying that in that specific situation with the woman who committed adultery, she was forgiven by Christ. God Himself. Jesus decided and He forgave her.

Are you going to deny that Jesus Christ was holy and could have forgiven her without repentence?

It is not God's law that we repent. God wants us to repent because then WE see our sin and we turn away. That is part of becoming sanctified. That is why God wants us to repent. It is for us, not God.

Now, there are consequences of sin in our lives. This is NOT God's wrath on us for sin but natural consequences that come.

Actually, it is God's Law that we repent.

"...but now He commandeth all men everywhere to repent," (Acts 17:30).

....

sdowney717 · Nov 8, 2015

Jason0047 said:
Actually, it is God's Law that we repent.

"...but now He commandeth all men everywhere to repent," (Acts 17:30).

....

Yes that is true.
He commands all men everywhere to repent.
In fact God holds them accountable who never heard the gospel.

30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, “We will hear you again on this matter.” 33 So Paul departed from among them. 34 However, some men joined him and believed, among them Dionysius the Areopagite, a woman named Damaris, and others with them.

After Christ came they have no excuse for their sin against Christ by not believing in Him, the sin of unbelief, this great salvation. Jesus is talking about the world which rejects Him (Christ) in John 15, see v22.
Christ does not mean the world is sinless, just that they had not heard of Christ so had no sin regarding not believing in Christ.
They still sinned though and were dead in sins. Those who do not believe in the Son, are now certainly going to die in their sins since they do not believe in the Son after He came and spoke to them the truth. And so the world hates Christ.

Christ has now spoken to the world. So God will no longer overlook their unbelief in Christ, as Paul says in v30. God will judge the world NOW in righteousness by the Man God has appointed to this, that Man is Christ. God has set His seal on Christ His Son and has given all things into His hands.
John 6
27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”

29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

John 15
18 “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. 20 Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. 21 But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because they do not know Him who sent Me.

22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin.

Amazing how it all comes together, these apostles who wrote these word's of God down on paper so long ago were inspired for sure.

Bible Highlighter · Nov 8, 2015

No. A believer cannot abide in sin and think they are saved. It is actually unbelief when a person does not believe 1 Peter 4:1, Galatians 5:24, and Galatians 5:19-21.

...

ToBeLoved · Nov 8, 2015

Jason0047 said:
Actually, it is God's Law that we repent.

"...but now He commandeth all men everywhere to repent," (Acts 17:30).

....

Yes we are commanded to repent. But our forgiveness is not based on repentance.

I think I used the wrong word earlier. Our justification in Christ is not based upon repentance. But we are all commanded to repent. We do not loose our salvation based off repentance, like I believe that you think we do.

The issue that we really need to worry about is our forgiving others, because God demands and commands us to forgive others.

There is a big difference

Bible Highlighter · Nov 8, 2015

ToBeLoved said:
Yes we are commanded to repent. But our forgiveness is not based on repentance.

I think I used the wrong word earlier. Our justification in Christ is not based upon repentance. But we are all commanded to repent. We do not loose our salvation based off repentance, like I believe that you think we do.

The issue that we really need to worry about is our forgiving others, because God demands and commands us to forgive others.

There is a big difference

No. We are saved by repentance.

Scripture says,

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord." (Acts 3:19).

...

Bible Highlighter · Nov 8, 2015

Btw- my replies are limited because my time is limited.

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stuart lawrence · Nov 8, 2015

Jason0047 said:
No. We are saved by repentance.

Scripture

...

stuart lawrence · Nov 8, 2015

Jason0047 said:
No. We are saved by repentance.

...

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works so that no one can boast eph2:8&9

Bible Highlighter · Nov 8, 2015

stuart lawrence said:
Scripture.

Here is the verse you deleted in your reply back to me.

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord." (Acts 3:19).

This is saying.... repent, which then leads to being converted and to one's sins being blotted out.

If one's sins are not blotted out, then they are not forgiven or saved.

....

Bible Highlighter · Nov 8, 2015

stuart lawrence said:
For it is by grace you have been saved through faith and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works so that no one can boast eph2:8&9

Yes, we are saved by God's grace THRU faith. But what does one's faith look like? Yes, the free gift of salvation that was offered to us was not of our own doing. It was a gift whereby we could receive it by responding to God granting us repentance and by His drawing us to Him. The beginning and foundation of our faith rests on God's grace and mercy and by the washing of the regeneration of the Holy Ghost. We are ultimately saved by what He has done. God also works in us, too. So again, we cannot boast. We cannot claim that we must adhere to a works salvation alone type program alone without God. It doesn't work like that. We first have to repent of our sins, accept Jesus into our hearts, and believe Jesus had died, was buried, and was risen to save us. Then the Lord can work and move within our lives (As we continue to surrender to Him) to do all His will and pleasure (According to His Word under the New Covenant).

...

stuart lawrence · Nov 8, 2015

Jason0047 said:
Here is the verse you deleted in your reply back to me.

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord." (Acts 3:19).

This is saying.... repent, which then leads to being converted and to one's sins being blotted out.

If one's sins are not blotted out, then they are not forgiven or saved.

....

You stated:
We are saved by repentance

Scripture states:

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works so that no one can boast eph2:8&9

stuart lawrence · Nov 8, 2015

We all repent at the point of conversion, but we are saved by grace through faith, as scripture attests to

Bible Highlighter · Nov 8, 2015

stuart lawrence said:
You stated:
We are saved by repentance

Scripture states:

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works so that no one can boast eph2:8&9

Is repentance man directed or God directed? According to the Bible it is a God directed thing (and not man directed).

"In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth" (2 Timothy 2:25).

....

Bible Highlighter · Nov 8, 2015

stuart lawrence said:
You stated:
We are saved by repentance

Scripture states:

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-not by works so that no one can boast eph2:8&9

You can't ignore one verse in Scripture in favor over another. All Scripture is harmonious and is an integrated message system.

I have explained how Ephesians 2:8-9 and Acts 3:19 are harmonious. You have not done so.

....

stuart lawrence · Nov 8, 2015

Jason0047 said:
Yes, we are saved by God's grace THRU faith. But what does one's faith look like? Yes, the free gift of salvation that was offered to us was not of our own doing. It was a gift whereby we could receive it by responding to God granting us repentance and by His drawing us to Him. The beginning and foundation of our faith rests on God's grace and mercy and by the washing of the regeneration of the Holy Ghost. We are ultimately saved by what He has done. God also works in us, too. So again, we cannot boast. We cannot claim that we must adhere to a works salvation alone type program alone without God. It doesn't work like that. We first have to repent of our sins, accept Jesus into our hearts, and believe Jesus had died, was buried, and was risen to save us. Then the Lord can work and move within our lives (As we continue to surrender to Him) to do all His will and pleasure (According to His Word under the New Covenant).

...

The person who has been truly born again of the Holy Spirit wants in their heart to obey. Because that is so, they do not need to link being saved by Grace alone, through faith alone to works. Because they love God they automatically want to obey him. Therefore they do not need the penalty of sin hanging over their head like the sword of Damocles waiting to be thrust into their heart if they do not perform perfect
This is what you seem unable to understand
I can understand well, if a person doesn't in their heart truly love God, and only wants to be a Christian so they might avoid hell, they would then well take your view. For if the penalty for sin was removed from them they would go out and happily sin as much as they wanted
But a person who loves God cannot take that view, for we do not seek to offend the ones we truly love in our hearts

True Justification, works of the Law of Moses, & Conditional Security

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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