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Trinity
- Thread starter fatboys
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Imagican
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Nope. For it is NOT in the Bible.
But we can find it in numerous 'other religions' that predate Christianity by THOUSANDS of years.
The Babylonians, The Egyptians, the Persians, even those of Rome and Greece worshiped 'multi-part gods' and even 'triune gods'.
I would venture to say that the apostles that wrote the New Testament had probably NEVER even heard the word 'trinity' themselves. They were Jews and being such, they would have clearly recognized that God is SINGULARLY The ONE true God. A people that had a difficult time with the concept of God having a SON, so you can be assured that they would have found it IMPOSSIBLE to accept the concept that God consisted of THREE PERSONS in ONE God.
And if one does but a cursory study of the philosophy of the Greeks and Romans, it is pretty clear WHERE 'trinity' came from. It was a combination of previous pagan religions combined with the ideas of the philosophers of the time. An attempt to RE-define God in their OWN words that had absolutely NOTHING to do with the words that God had used to DEFINE HIMSELF.
Blessings,
MEC
But we can find it in numerous 'other religions' that predate Christianity by THOUSANDS of years.
The Babylonians, The Egyptians, the Persians, even those of Rome and Greece worshiped 'multi-part gods' and even 'triune gods'.
I would venture to say that the apostles that wrote the New Testament had probably NEVER even heard the word 'trinity' themselves. They were Jews and being such, they would have clearly recognized that God is SINGULARLY The ONE true God. A people that had a difficult time with the concept of God having a SON, so you can be assured that they would have found it IMPOSSIBLE to accept the concept that God consisted of THREE PERSONS in ONE God.
And if one does but a cursory study of the philosophy of the Greeks and Romans, it is pretty clear WHERE 'trinity' came from. It was a combination of previous pagan religions combined with the ideas of the philosophers of the time. An attempt to RE-define God in their OWN words that had absolutely NOTHING to do with the words that God had used to DEFINE HIMSELF.
Blessings,
MEC
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nope or the word millennium but many denominations teach about that...
nor the word homosexual....
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ChetSinger
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It's just a word used to place a label onto a concept. A more relevant question, imo, is whether the concept is in the Bible. And my answer is 'yes'.
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ChetSinger
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Please check out the Jewish concept of "two powers in heaven", dating to the second temple period. You'll find that that the Jews accepted that the "Memra (Word) of the Lord" (later incarnated as Jesus) was considered a divine figure. He (yes, a man) was the visible YHWH, working in this world, while the invisible YHWH remained in heaven.
The passage in Daniel where the "son of man" walks on the clouds was one of the scriptures used to support the concept. When Jesus, at his trial, identified himself as that figure, the trial was immediately terminated with a conviction for blasphemy.
You don't need to go to pagan religions to find the concept of a dual deity, one part visible and another part not. It was right there in Judaism itself. The rabbis declared it heretical in the 2nd century, after the rise of Christianity.
While I haven't read it myself, one classic study on this is considered to be Two Powers in Heaven: Early Rabbinic Reports about Christianity and Gnosticism by Alan Segal.
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Imagican
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The Hebrews/Jews DID NOT believe in a 'multi-part god'. And I challenge ANYONE that would make a statement indicating otherwise to offer some PROOF instead of merely making a statement.
The reason that the words 'trinity' was NEVER used in the Bible is that it took MEN intent on defining a god of their OWN design to introduce it.
Neither God, His prophets, OWN Son or apostles EVER taught 'trinity'. The concept, so far as Christianity is concerned, didn't even EXIST until well over a hundred years AFTER the death of Christ. And then introduced gradually by philosophers of the Greek and Roman tradition.
The Catholic Church itself ADMITS that the FIRST mention of the 'word trinity' in regards to Christianity didn't take place until 180 AD. And that wasn't even the 'doctrine of trinity', it was simply the USE of the word as concerns Christianity.
Even after the council at Nicaea it took additional hundreds of years for 'trinity' to be completely defined and introduced as DOCTRINE. For ALL that was determined at the Council at Nicaea was that Christ, the Holy Spirit and God were of the SAME essence. And that was in 325 AD. GET IT? 325 AD.
And what is MOST significant about this date and what transpired is that the conclusion, the ultimate decision was determined by a PAGAN Emperor. The FINAL decision to accept, believe and teach that Jesus and the Holy Spirit and The Father were of the SAME essence was DETERMINED by a PAGAN Emperor. A PAGAN Emperor that flip flopped back and forth on this issue throughout his life.
And for anyone that tries to state that Constantine was a 'Christian': this was a man that had members of his own family executed AFTER the Council at Nicaea. By all means of being able to determine his beliefs through historical records, a man that was NEVER a Christian and was Baptized upon HIS DEATH BED.
And the Bible CANNOT offer that which is incomprehensible. In other words, the Bible CANNOT offer concepts that are IMPOSSIBLE to understand by those to whom the words were offered.
The Catholic Church itself STATES that this 'concept of trinity' CANNOT be comprehended by ANY 'created intellect'. IT MUST BE delivered by DIVINE revelation. For the words that define 'trinity' are NOT found in the Bible. They are PURELY manufactured by MEN who CLAIMED divine revelation.
Yet we can 'look back' at the manner in which 'trinity' was introduced into the 'Church' and plainly SEE that it was FORCED upon the congregation. A congregation that was DENIED the ability to read the Word. A congregation that was often TORTURED and MURDERED if they denied 'trinity'.
And all that it takes to determine the TRUTH of 'trinity' is to ask oneself: Is this the manner in which Christ delivered His message? And is THIS BEHAVIOR the behavior that Christ taught?
In my opinion, 'trinity' elicited behavior COMPLETELY contrary to the message that Christ delivered. For Christ's message was FORGIVENESS. He certainly never taught men to torture and murder each other in order to FORCE doctrine upon them.
Blessings,
MEC
The reason that the words 'trinity' was NEVER used in the Bible is that it took MEN intent on defining a god of their OWN design to introduce it.
Neither God, His prophets, OWN Son or apostles EVER taught 'trinity'. The concept, so far as Christianity is concerned, didn't even EXIST until well over a hundred years AFTER the death of Christ. And then introduced gradually by philosophers of the Greek and Roman tradition.
The Catholic Church itself ADMITS that the FIRST mention of the 'word trinity' in regards to Christianity didn't take place until 180 AD. And that wasn't even the 'doctrine of trinity', it was simply the USE of the word as concerns Christianity.
Even after the council at Nicaea it took additional hundreds of years for 'trinity' to be completely defined and introduced as DOCTRINE. For ALL that was determined at the Council at Nicaea was that Christ, the Holy Spirit and God were of the SAME essence. And that was in 325 AD. GET IT? 325 AD.
And what is MOST significant about this date and what transpired is that the conclusion, the ultimate decision was determined by a PAGAN Emperor. The FINAL decision to accept, believe and teach that Jesus and the Holy Spirit and The Father were of the SAME essence was DETERMINED by a PAGAN Emperor. A PAGAN Emperor that flip flopped back and forth on this issue throughout his life.
And for anyone that tries to state that Constantine was a 'Christian': this was a man that had members of his own family executed AFTER the Council at Nicaea. By all means of being able to determine his beliefs through historical records, a man that was NEVER a Christian and was Baptized upon HIS DEATH BED.
And the Bible CANNOT offer that which is incomprehensible. In other words, the Bible CANNOT offer concepts that are IMPOSSIBLE to understand by those to whom the words were offered.
The Catholic Church itself STATES that this 'concept of trinity' CANNOT be comprehended by ANY 'created intellect'. IT MUST BE delivered by DIVINE revelation. For the words that define 'trinity' are NOT found in the Bible. They are PURELY manufactured by MEN who CLAIMED divine revelation.
Yet we can 'look back' at the manner in which 'trinity' was introduced into the 'Church' and plainly SEE that it was FORCED upon the congregation. A congregation that was DENIED the ability to read the Word. A congregation that was often TORTURED and MURDERED if they denied 'trinity'.
And all that it takes to determine the TRUTH of 'trinity' is to ask oneself: Is this the manner in which Christ delivered His message? And is THIS BEHAVIOR the behavior that Christ taught?
In my opinion, 'trinity' elicited behavior COMPLETELY contrary to the message that Christ delivered. For Christ's message was FORGIVENESS. He certainly never taught men to torture and murder each other in order to FORCE doctrine upon them.
Blessings,
MEC
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Imagican
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Nope, Don't need to. The most significant characteristic of the Hebrew/Jewish faith is:
Defining character
Unlike other ancient Near Eastern gods, the Hebrew God is portrayed as unitary and solitary; consequently, the Hebrew God's principal relationships are not with other gods, but with the world, and more specifically, with the people He created.[23] Judaism thus begins with an ethical monotheism: the belief that God is one, and concerned with the actions of humankind.
From Wikipedia.
Blessings,
MEC
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its just another lame attempt to peddle their beliefs, just because it has been coined as a phrase it does not mean the bible does not support it..
yet the mormons teach the millennium yet that word is never used/...lol
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ChetSinger
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Proof? Here's evidence: Two Powers in Heaven: Early Rabbinic Reports about Christianity and Gnosticism
As I said, the word is just a label to describe a concept. To my knowledge, Karl Marx didn't describe his concepts as "Marxism". Nevertheless, others put that label on his concepts, and that's OK.
Not true. In the gospels, for example, Thomas called the risen Jesus his God, and was not considered blasphemous.
As I said, the word is just a label to describe a concept.
I'm sorry, but even pagan sources state that Christians were worshiping Jesus long before Nicea.
Says who? The concept of God himself is impossible to understand. Are you claiming to comprehend God? I doubt it.
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