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Trinity?

Catchup

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Responding in anger to Biblical quotations which demonstrate Truth is hardly the way to convince anyone of your point.

Othniel : You are wasting your time. I no longer read your post. You are the one who is posting out of anger and unfounded self-righteousness. I love the Bible. I have studied it for years. I continue to learn from it and others each day. But I do not react kindly to someone using it as a weapon. You hurl out verses with insulting comments attached. You really do not have a knack for discussing intelligently nor Spiritually with people. You are a turn-off.

Further I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. This was never intended to be a debate. If you are a fixture of "Ask Josephus"... then I will not make the mistake of posting here again.

By the way...I can not even remember the last time I was angry. That emotion no longer seems to be a part of me. But disgust :rolleyes: ...now your talking.

:) LOVE
 
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Hi Catchup-

Othniel has always seemed cool to me. Can't we all just get along? :)

If you don't mind, I would like to point out:

The doctrine of the Trinity is encapsulated in Matthew 28:19, where Jesus instructs the apostles: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
 
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Originally posted by Badfish


Sorry to butt in, but can I ask why The Ice, Water, Vapor analogy is bad? Yes it is very general and not directly informative, but it is an analogy to describe 3 entities having 1 composition, since the trinity is impossible(or near impossible)to comprehend, isn't this a decent general analogy, isn't it essentially the same as the Ocean analogy?

Can we comprehend the trinity, or is it clearly for us not to comprehend?

Is there a human analogy that could be used to describe the trinity, other than the water analogy?

I would like Josephus or Othniel to clarify please.:)

Thanks Badfish. I agree. The analogy is used to teach children about the trinity, and it seems helpful. Not sure why Josephus didn't like it. :scratch:
 
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Badfish,

I can't speak for Josephus, so he'll have to confirm this, but I think his problem with the analogy has to do with the changing from on into another and then back. When it is steam, it is no longer ice. When God is Jesus, He is still God. Does that help? I don't think it's a terrible analogy, but like all analogies it's flawed and so can be as confusing as it is helpful. I've alwasy like the apple (peel, seed, fruit) analogy, but its just as flawed...yet it did help me when I was a little'n. For more, we'll have to wait for Joe...

Peace to all who seek it,
<><
 
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Originally posted by Catchup


You are wasting your time.


I press on toward the goal so as to win the prize for which Christ Jesus has called me heavenward.

I no longer read your post.
:confused:

You are the one who is posting out of anger and unfounded self-righteousness. I love the Bible.

I am righteous by the blood of Christ alone. If you see that as my "self", then I am sorry. I boast in none but the Lord, for He is good, and His love endures forever. What am I to Him? Yet, He loves me even so.

I have studied it for years. I continue to learn from it and others each day.

I am glad. :)

But I do not react kindly to someone using it as a weapon.

"Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God." (Eph 6:17)Praise the Lord for it!

You hurl out verses with insulting comments attached.

I apologize for anything I may have said which has insulted anyone. That is never my intention and it grieves me to think that my words have been taken that way. Yet, if it is the sharing of Scripture on a relevant topic which upsets you, then I do not repent, for it is imperative that Scripture be seen in its entirety, or else we become false teachers and make God out to be a liar, which He cannot be.

You really do not have a knack for discussing intelligently nor Spiritually with people. You are a turn-off.

I am truly sorry that you feel that way. My only prayer is that the Spirit would use me in furthering the gospel of our Lord. Yet, if it is that gospel which offends, there is little I can do, for I must serve Him. (Jer.20:9)

Further I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. This was never intended to be a debate.

I am sorry to have misinterpreted your previous posts as explanations of your doctrine which claimed that my doctrine was false. The original question asked why we add to the Bible, and I have been attempting to show you that one can believe Christ is God and not add a word to Scripture.

If you are a fixture of "Ask Josephus"... then I will not make the mistake of posting here again.

If God so leads you, follow His call.

By the way...I can not even remember the last time I was angry. That emotion no longer seems to be a part of me. But disgust ...now your talking.

Anger is a godly emotion. It is the feeling that something unjust is occurring and having a resolve to stop it. However, human anger is not godly anger. We, as Christians are admonished to give our anger to God when it occurs to be protected from it, for the anger of man does not bring the righteousness of God. Even so, the Bible in this admonishen shows us that as humans we will feel anger. If you have not admitted this to yourself, you may be placing yourself in a dangerous position. Sin is like gangrene and will fester and rot if it goes unwatched. We must confess our sins, and He is faithful and just and will forgive us and purify us from all unrighteousness. Yet, he who claims to be without sin deceives himself...

I will pray for you, even if you do not read my responses. We are family in Christ, and alienating each other is not our Lord's command.

May we meet in our Father's Kingdom again,

Peace to all who seek it,
<><
 
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Josephus

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Yes, there is a perfect analogy, the analogy God intended:

man - who was created in the image of God.

We have a mind and will, who is "us" even though seperate from the others.

We have a spirit, who is "us" even though seperate from the others.

We have a body/flesh, who is "us" even though seperate from the others.

But whereas we are finite in nature, God is infinite in these three. He is the all-knowing Mind. The ubiquitous Spirit. The holy, sinless, and perfect flesh.
 
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Catchup

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I declare today that Othniel is now a Fellow of the Ask Josephus forum. He is therefore allowed to respond to any question asked, after Josephus responds first of course.

His insight and wisdom have been demonstrated countless times, and his ability to get God's heart for people's answers is what has prompted me to make this decision.

Congratulations Othniel.


Thanks anyway Josephus: I will get back with you some time ...

When you get your own forum.

:) Love and God Bless.
 
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OldBadfish

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Originally posted by Othniel
Badfish,

I can't speak for Josephus, so he'll have to confirm this, but I think his problem with the analogy has to do with the changing from on into another and then back. When it is steam, it is no longer ice. When God is Jesus, He is still God. Does that help? I don't think it's a terrible analogy, but like all analogies it's flawed and so can be as confusing as it is helpful. I've alwasy like the apple (peel, seed, fruit) analogy, but its just as flawed...yet it did help me when I was a little'n. For more, we'll have to wait for Joe...

Peace to all who seek it,
<><

I see what you are saying Othniel and Josephus, I think the Ice, Water, Vapor analogy works if you can dismiss the transitional states of water and concentrate on the fact that Ice, Water, and Vapor are all comprised of the same elements. Right? :)
 
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cougan

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This nice lady seems to hold a different view on the GodHead than most onenees people hold. Usually they will say that the father is Jesus and the Holy Spirit is Jesus and of course Jesus is Jesus. I sure didnt understand when she stated that God was Jesus but Jesus wasnt God. That would be like saying George was my father but my father wasnt George. Say what...
 
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Catchup

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This nice lady seems to hold a different view on the GodHead than most onenees people hold.

I had no intention of posting on this forum again...But I have to respond to that! :rolleyes:

Would I be the nice Lady you are referring to? LOL :D

By your post I can see that you have neither grasp of my concept not my person. But that is OK, for I am not a teacher. I do not wish to be. I pray to forever remain a student of the Lord. There are far too many teachers already. Agree??


:wave: LOVE and God Bless
 
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Originally posted by Catchup

Othniel : You really do not have a knack for discussing intelligently nor Spiritually with people. You are a turn-off.

:) LOVE

I really didn't feel like that was "nice." :sorry:

cougan: By your post I can see that you have neither grasp of my concept not my person.

I didn't think that was "nice" either.

Peace to all who seek it,
<><
 
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Othneil-

Dont let it get ya down, you are good at explaning things and even better at giving scripture quotes! ;)

P.S.

The analogy is meant to speak about the element H20, which is the same, even though it is in three different forms. I don't see it as flawed, but it doesn't really matter. :)
 
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Catchup

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Othniel : Please except my apology for my harsh words.

You came across to me as someone needing to debate. I really just wanted to talk to Josephus about trinity. I do not care for the way people argue beliefs. It upset me when you attacked by saying that I though Jesus was a liar... over and over. But I am not trying to make excuses. I should have handled it better.

But man :D You got to know that what I said to cougan was tongue in cheek... He called me a nice lady! LOL :D

Othniel I did not have any idea that your participation of answering threads on the forum was welcomed by Josephus. I see now that he has taken you as a partner. That is good.

I do not put as much emphasis on understanding the Trinity as it may appear. I do not even think we need to figure out God. It is much better if we spend our time loving him, trying to figure out our own life, and how to relate lovingly to others. So once again... I am sorry.

Can you answer one more question that I see as a riddle? If Jesus and God are exactly equal as I believe you think of them. Then why did Jesus say that he does not know the hour of his return? His Father in Heaven is the only one that knows.

:) LOVE
 
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Apology gladly accepted. Thank you. :holy:

And I agree...we can't figure out God. That's why I do my best to accept what the Scriptures plainly say...even if it makes no sense to me at all (and this happens on more issues than the Trinity!) I just serve Him and thank Him for Himself, in all His oneness! :bow:

As to Jesus sinning...I don't think that! He is the spotless lamb of God! I was just trying to show that if one says Jesus is not God, an antichrist can then twist the scripture to show that Jesus was not perfect because He did not give God the recognition He truly deserved.

Your question: "How did Jesus not know?"

When reading the gospels one finds many times that Jesus is surprised by things, that He is "astounded" at someones faith, or, even, in the case of the hour of his final return, not knowing somthing and admitting it. The answer to this is actually rather childlike, and therefore, it is important to not think about it too deeply in order to understand it, but rather to accept it as so obvious that we, in our fallen state, wouldn't have even thought of it.

Before I answer it, though, let me ask another question (rhetorical...I really don't like debating either...tends to be argueing after a while :cry: ) : If Jesus is God, how did He feel pain? How did He cry? How come He had to eat? And most importantly, how did He die?????!!!

It is important to remember that the Bible, while calling Jesus God, never denies that He is also fully man. He is 100% of two things. (Rationally this is not possible...but we must forsake ration in light of Truth) The humble and fabulously gracious act of becoming a man meant that, as God, Christ was limiting Himself for a time for one reason alone: to die for our sins, and in that, to experience absolute separation from God, that means from Himself...again something we cannot even comprehend, yet something which was essential and necessary for the payment of sin.

With that established, God, in becoming flesh and blood, limited Himself so that he could achieve His eternal purpose in Christ (Eph3:11) which is indeed, as you have very correctly ascertained, love. (a love which even we Christians cannot fully and perfectly understand, nor live, but which we receive a foretase of as we approach Him in our lives because of His limiting Himself so that He could die and conquer death!)

With that said, the fact that God limited Himself in regards to other issues is a moot point, each one open to speculation as to why, but each one obviously possible because the true limitation was simply in becoming a mortal creature.

So...Jesus did not know the hour of the end of the world because as God, He chose not to. We as humans surely can do no such thing as forget what we know on purpose, but we must not limit God. He can do anything, even forget that which He knows perfectly. Another example of this is the Father's promise to forgive our sins and "remember" them "no more" (Jer 31:34)

Why would He do this? That is for Him to know, and us to find out in heaven when we will "know even as we are known." For now, it is only for us to serve Him and accept with gratitude the knowledge which He has already given us. To do any less is to call Him a liar, when it is every man who is a liar, and God who is True! :bow:

Peace to all who seek it,
<><

PS I thought you were a woman too...don't know why...just did...sorry...it is kind of funny :D
 
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Catchup

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I am sorry but your explanation sounds twisted and confusing. But I have seen, that this is the level that people must reach if they are to believe all the doctrine that they make within their minds of God.

If it works for you and promotes your ability to express your faith then I am happy. But to me when man makes up something to explain God and then has to make up explanation after explanation to then explain the original made up doctrine... something is wrong.

I would rather believe more simply.

We all have one God. God has one begotten son...Jesus Christ. Jesus is my Lord and Saviour sent from God. The Holy Spirit emanates from God and Jesus, to all that are willing to accept his LOVE and Grace.

It takes a few more words than Trinity. But I do not think it classifies me as the Antichrist. LOL :D

I hope we can be friends even if we can not agree on this.

:) LOVE and God Bless
 
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