Trinity question?

[jesusfreak220]

I'm not sure if this belongs here or in a different folder but I most definitely am hoping to find some Scriptural answers to these questions.

Where does the Bible say that Jesus is G-d?
I know the Bible doesn't use the word "Trinity" but what is the Biblical proof for that idea that G-d is three in 1?

I'm sure that this is likely to start a debate given how personal these issues are and I know that Christians all the world over are taught that Jesus Christ is G-d and that G-d is 3-in-1 but I'm just wondering where the Biblical support for that is. Or where the Biblical rationale AGAINST that is. My Biblical background isn't strong enough to remember arguements for or against on my own.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Here The Word (Jesus) who was with God, and shows the Word was God

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Word was made flesh

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Before Jesus ascended he said...


John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

David seeing before the resurrection of Jesus Christ says....

Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.


1John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.


Mat 28:9 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Wordwas with God, and the Word was God.


And God said, Let us make man in our image

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,

(and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)

There are a few examples for you,

 

[ebia]

I'm not sure if this belongs here or in a different folder but I most definitely am hoping to find some Scriptural answers to these questions.

Where does the Bible say that Jesus is G-d?
I know the Bible doesn't use the word "Trinity" but what is the Biblical proof for that idea that G-d is three in 1?

I'm sure that this is likely to start a debate given how personal these issues are and I know that Christians all the world over are taught that Jesus Christ is G-d and that G-d is 3-in-1 but I'm just wondering where the Biblical support for that is. Or where the Biblical rationale AGAINST that is. My Biblical background isn't strong enough to remember arguements for or against on my own.

The earliest texts would be Paul's letters. Paul doesn't quite come out and say "Jesus is God". But he repeatedly takes Old Testament texts about the uniqueness of YHWH and reframes them around Jesus. Remember in the Greek translation of the OT God's name, YHWH, is rendered Kyrios (Lord).

So, for example, "Hear, Oh Israel, the Lord (YHWH) our God; the Lord alone..."
Becomes "... God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ..."

 

[Radagast]

Be aware that the Trinity is part of the CF Statement of Faith, so disagreeing with the doctrine is against the rules in this subforum.

One of the key scriptures is the first part of John 1: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. ... All things were made through him ... the Word became flesh and dwelt among us..."

 

[AvgJoe]

Where does the Bible say that Jesus is G-d?

Jesus claimed to be God in John 8:24; 8:56-59 (see Exodus 3:14) and John 10:30-33. Jesus is called God in John 1:1 & 14, Colossians 2:9, Titus 2:13 and Hebrews 1:8.

I know the Bible doesn't use the word "Trinity" but what is the Biblical proof for that idea that G-d is three in 1?

Visit the following link~~~> http://carm.org/trinity . Towards the bottom of the page you will find the Trinity chart. It should help you to see how the doctrine of the Trinity is systematically derived from Scripture.

 

[ebedmelech]

Jesus claimed to be God in John 8:24; 8:56-59 (see Exodus 3:14) and John 10:30-33. Jesus is called God in John 1:1 & 14, Colossians 2:9, Titus 2:13 and Hebrews 1:8.




Visit the following link~~~> http://carm.org/trinity . Towards the bottom of the page you will find the Trinity chart. It should help you to see how the doctrine of the Trinity is systematically derived from Scripture.

Good link AvgJoe. I use CARM a lot but never came across this. I guess because I don't have any doubts about the Trinity.

It's a good ref link though!

Bless you brother!

 

[AvgJoe]

Good link AvgJoe. I use CARM a lot but never came across this. I guess because I don't have any doubts about the Trinity.

It's a good ref link though!

Bless you brother!

CARM is a wonderful resource. I've been using it for years. They put a tremendous amount of work into creating that site.

 

[Dan61861]

I am not sure I am comfortable with the word trinity. God is one. As others have brought up, John 1 is the best. Thomas called Him my Lord, my God. Jesus said, I am in the Father and the Father is in me. We don't serve three gods, we serve One.


Job 34:1415 If He set his heart upon man, if He gather unto Himself his Spirit and his Breath; We see the three, Father, Son and Spirit, They are clearly separate, yet He can clearly gather his Spirit and Breath unto himself. We believe the Breath (Word) became flesh. Jesus is the Christ. God is one. I also believe this helps clarify when God said, let Us make man in Our image.


This helps us understand what David said in Ps 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. [2] The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. Jesus is our Lord, the head of Christ is the Father. Ps 45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. Notice, How God anoints God in this passage. We don't have two gods, In this passage the Father is anointing the son. Ps 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer. Here we see the Father and the Son.


In closing, I don't want to make this too long. With the above scripture, especially John 1 we find Jesus in Prov 8:22-36 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men. Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways. Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not. Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors. For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD. But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.


Many believe Christians worship three gods, we don't we worship one God. He is all powerful, nothing is too hard for Him!


In Christ,
Daniel

 

[Fireinfolding]

I am not sure I am comfortable with the word trinity. God is one.

I dont use the word either, if its any consolation.

 

[ebedmelech]

I am not sure I am comfortable with the word trinity. God is one. As others have brought up, John 1 is the best. Thomas called Him my Lord, my God. Jesus said, I am in the Father and the Father is in me. We don't serve three gods, we serve One.


Job 34:1415 If He set his heart upon man, if He gather unto Himself his Spirit and his Breath; We see the three, Father, Son and Spirit, They are clearly separate, yet He can clearly gather his Spirit and Breath unto himself. We believe the Breath (Word) became flesh. Jesus is the Christ. God is one. I also believe this helps clarify when God said, let Us make man in Our image.


This helps us understand what David said in Ps 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. [2] The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. Jesus is our Lord, the head of Christ is the Father. Ps 45:7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. Notice, How God anoints God in this passage. We don't have two gods, In this passage the Father is anointing the son. Ps 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer. Here we see the Father and the Son.


In closing, I don't want to make this too long. With the above scripture, especially John 1 we find Jesus in Prov 8:22-36 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was. When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth: While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world. When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep: When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men. Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways. Hear instruction, and be wise, and refuse it not. Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors. For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD. But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death.


Many believe Christians worship three gods, we don't we worship one God. He is all powerful, nothing is too hard for Him!


In Christ,
Daniel

The word "Trinity" codifies the understanding of the nature of God. While we don't see that word in scripture that doesn't mean it's isn't a good word to describe how God is to be understood.

There is one God...the Hebrew "Shema", in Deuteronomy 6 makes that clear:
Deut 6:4, 5:
“Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one!
5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.

So God is one Lord.

We now have to understand What saying "God is one Lord" means, and to understand that we allow the scriptures to make it clear.

Gen 1:1-4
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters.
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.

We already see two persons of the Godhead active in creation, God, and the Spirit of God.

I like that you saw Jesus in Proverbs 8 (many miss that), where Jesus is described as "Wisdom". Beginning at verse 22 we see this:
Proverbs 8:22-24:
22 “The Lord possessed me at the beginning of His way,
Before His works of old.
23 “From everlasting I was established,
From the beginning, from the earliest times of the earth.
24 “When there were no depths I was brought forth,
When there were no springs abounding with water.

Prov 8:31, 32 says Jesus was active in creation also:
30 Then I was beside Him, as a master workman; And I was daily His delight,
31 Rejoicing in the world, His earth, And having my delight in the sons of men.

Lastly Col 1:15-16 nails it down also:
15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.

I think now we can clearly understand that the "one God" is three distinct persons! Therefore we must conclude while we may not understand how "God is one"...those three persons are "the one true God". Yet each one on His own, may be called God.

God is not of our dimension and therefore is not bound by our dimension. So while we cannot understand how the "3 are 1 God", we accept it since God's word says it! That's where the word "Trinity" comes in, it's a shorthanded way to saying one understands how God is revealed in scripture.

I've not met a soul who can understand the "Trinity" and if one doesn't like the word "Trinity" to describe the nature of God, they need to understand "God" as He reveals Himself in scripture.

Here's a nice link too: Understanding The Trinity

 

[jesusfreak220]

Thank you all for your help. I realized after writing this that when Jesus says "I am the way and the truth and the life", that the phrase "I AM" as He uses it in the original language would have made His audience immediately think of the L-rd saying "Tell them I AM." That was enough for those listening that they wanted to stone Him for blasphemy. Something I read made me realize I didn't know off hand the Biblical evidence for this belief, whatever word you choose to call it , and of course Satan used that to make me question what he was able to.

 

[Radagast]

Thank you all for your help. I realized after writing this that when Jesus says "I am the way and the truth and the life", that the phrase "I AM" as He uses it in the original language would have made His audience immediately think of the L-rd saying "Tell them I AM." That was enough for those listening that they wanted to stone Him for blasphemy. Something I read made me realize I didn't know off hand the Biblical evidence for this belief, whatever word you choose to call it , and of course Satan used that to make me question what he was able to.

There's a particular emphatic Greek form of "I am" used in each case.

Exodus 3:14a in the Greek Septuagint used in Jesus' time: καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεὸς πρὸς μωυσῆν (God said to Moses) ἐγώ εἰμι (I am) ὁ ὤν (who I am).

John 14:6a: λέγει αὐτῷ Ἰησοῦς (Jesus said to him) ἐγώ εἰμι (I am) ἡ ὁδὸς καὶ ἡ ἀλήθεια καὶ ἡ ζωή (the way, and the truth, and the life).

John 8:58-59a: εἶπεν αὐτοῖς Ἰησοῦς (Jesus said to them) ἀμὴν ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν (Truly, truly, I say to you) πρὶν Ἀβραὰμ γενέσθαι (before Abraham was) ἐγὼ εἰμί (I am). ἦραν οὖν λίθους ἵνα βάλωσιν ἐπ’ αὐτόν (So they picked up stones to throw at him).

 

[jesusfreak220]

Radagast, if I understood correctly when I first heard that, that construction would not have been used in an every day setting. It wasn't as if Jesus saying "I am the way and the truth and the life" was spoken as if I were to say "I am Victoria" or "I am 22". Is that correct or was I misinformed?

 

[Radagast]

Radagast, if I understood correctly when I first heard that, that construction would not have been used in an every day setting.

Exactly, because the εἰμί part on it's own already means "I am." The phrase ἐγὼ εἰμί indicates either strong emphasis (it means that in Luke 1:19), or a reference to Exodus 3:14. The people who tried to stone Jesus clearly thought it was the latter.

The phrase occurs often in the gospel of John, in connection with Jesus' divinity (John 4:26, John 6:20, and John 6:35, for example).

 

[FredVB]

Jesus is returning, and in a wonderful way if we look at it scripture shows us that this returning Jesus is Yahweh coming according to prophecy.

Consider the prophecy in Zechariah 12v1-10: And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the
inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of
supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have
pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for
his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one
that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Notice it is about Yahweh in the end time who is pierced.
This prophecy is referred to in John 19v33-37 and is
applied to Jesus:
But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and
forthwith came there out blood and water. And he that saw
it bare record, his record is true: and he knoweth that he
sayeth true, that ye might believe. For these things were
done, that the scripture might be fulfilled, A bone of him
shall not be broken. And again another scripture saith,
They shall look on him whom they pierced.
and so is Revelation 1v7:
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him,
and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the
earth shall wail because of him. Even so, amen.
The end time is referred to in Acts 1v10-12:
And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as he went
up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; which
also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into
heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into
heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him
go into heaven.
It describes Jesus return to the Mount of Olives. You
can see in Zechariah 14v1-4 that in the end time it is
Yahweh that sets his foot on that mount:
Behold the day of Yahweh cometh, and thy spoil shall be
divided in the midst of thee. For I gather all nations
against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken,
and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half
the city shall go into captivity, and the residue of the
people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall
Yahweh go forth, and fight against those nations, as when
he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand
in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before
Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall in
the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and
there shall be a very great valley; and half of the
mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it
toward the south
This can be seen to be the same event for Jesus returns
in that great battle as detailed in Revelation 16v13-14
and 19v11-21.

 

[Jahleel]

Don`t mean to hijack the post, but if jesus was god, then why did he still pray to god the night he was betrayed? why did he say he`d be seated at the right hand of god? you can`t sit on the right hand of yourself,and why did he say "god my father why have you forsaken me" and "father forgive them for they know not what they do"?

Not criticizing just seeking answers.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Don`t mean to hijack the post, but if jesus was god, then why did he still pray to god the night he was betrayed? why did he say he`d be seated at the right hand of god? you can`t sit on the right hand of yourself,and why did he say "god my father why have you forsaken me" and "father forgive them for they know not what they do"?

Not criticizing just seeking answers.

You can look here, it shows what David called him by the Holy Ghost

Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. (from Psalm 110:1)

This is shown after the Word was made flesh (and raised up again) whom the LORD made both Lord and Christ (declared the Son of God) by the same. Yet was the Word made flesh, the same Word that was with God and was God, but Paul speaks of the fellowship of this very mystery also

Psalm 110:5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.

 

[Fireinfolding]

I skimmed over your other question, we have the adoption (as sons) to God by Jesus Christ, by the Spirit of Christ (given us ) we cry to God (Abba Father) however, Jesus isnt ashamed to call "them" brethren, as both he that sanctifies and them which are sanctified are all of one (God)

Which is why Jesus said, I ascend unto my Father AND YOU Father, MY God, and YOUR God. He would send the Spirit of promise (unto the adoption of sons) bringing many sons to glory by Jesus Christ having an eternal priesthood after the order of Melchezidek.

God wasnt talking to himself when he said, "Let US make something" when all things were created by Jesus Christ, Jesus said I and the Father are one.

 

[Jahleel]

You can look here, it shows what David called him by the Holy Ghost

Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool. (from Psalm 110:1)

This is shown after the Word was made flesh (and raised up again) whom the LORD made both Lord and Christ (declared the Son of God) by the same. Yet was the Word made flesh, the same Word that was with God and was God, but Paul speaks of the fellowship of this very mystery also

Psalm 110:5 The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath.

ok thank you fireinfolding, i`ve just done some research and now it all makes sense, thank you.

 

[Fireinfolding]

ok thank you fireinfolding, i`ve just done some research and now it all makes sense, thank you.

Your very welcome Jahleel

Its pretty awesome I must say to find these awesome things of him and the more you look into it your faith starts blowing the roof off the house.

Amazing to find the order of things and things which are somewhat obscure but come to the forefront the more you look.

He is so awesome, blessed be our Great God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! (Man He is "all that" times billions) just WOW!

Our God richly bless you