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Trinity: Is it Required?

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Yekcidmij

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Simple question for discussion:

Is belief in the Trinity required for salvation? Must you be a trinitarian? Why or why not? Note: the question isn't whether or not the Trinity is in fact true or false, just whether or not it's required.

And if it's not a requirement, then which of these is OK (do any of these "send you to hell"):
-Di-theism (two seperate gods: father and son)
-Tri-theism (3 seperate gods: father, son, HS)
-Modalism/Oneness: the Son is God and reveals Himself as Father Son and HS
-Denying that Jesus is God
-Di-unity: (I'm sure there's a technical name) Just Father and Son as One God.
....something else?
 

SavedByGrace3

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Believe it or not you are not allowed to bring up this subject on this forum. Unless things have changed since the last time I tried to bring it up, you will likely have to close this down.
I personally do not see the trinity as a requirement of the gospel and faith. It is an invented term and has many logical and scriptural contradictions. However.. many people base elements of confidence on these teachings so while I have doubts about their validity, I would not try to talk anyone out of their faith. Belief in the trinity pretty much has no real effect on salvation. Since God did not push the idea in the scriptures I feel good that we do not have to elevate it to a make it or break it topic.
Simple question for discussion:

Is belief in the Trinity required for salvation? Must you be a trinitarian? Why or why not? Note: the question isn't whether or not the Trinity is in fact true or false, just whether or not it's required.

And if it's not a requirement, then which of these is OK (do any of these "send you to hell"):
-Di-theism (two seperate gods: father and son)
-Tri-theism (3 seperate gods: father, son, HS)
-Modalism/Oneness: the Son is God and reveals Himself as Father Son and HS
-Denying that Jesus is God
-Di-unity: (I'm sure there's a technical name) Just Father and Son as One God.
....something else?
 
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JimB

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Believe it or not you are not allowed to bring up this subject on this forum. Unless things have changed since the last time I tried to bring it up, you will likely have to close this down.
I personally do not see the trinity as a requirement of the gospel and faith. It is an invented term and has many logical and scriptural contradictions. However.. many people base elements of confidence on these teachings so while I have doubts about their validity, I would not try to talk anyone out of their faith. Belief in the trinity pretty much has no real effect on salvation. Since God did not push the idea in the scriptures I feel good that we do not have to elevate it to a make it or break it topic.

Apparently the owner of this forum is (or was) a committed Trinitarian. :) I hope the rule has changed because IMO no one’s pet doctrine should be taboo from open discussion, even disagreement, among brethren.

~Bjorn Free
A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Apparently the owner of this forum is (or was) a committed Trinitarian. :) I hope the rule has changed because IMO no one’s pet doctrine should be taboo from open discussion, even disagreement, among brethren.

~Bjorn Free
A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle.
That is good news. Maybe the subject will be broached and we actually may agree on something again Jim. But still, since so many people DO hang onto this teaching as a part of their faith, I would be hesitant to break it down in front of them.
 
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NacDan

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No, belief to the doctrine of the Trinity is not a requirement for salvation. Salvation does not depend upon our understanding of the nature of God, it depends on our faith in Jesus Christ who shed His blood for our sins. If it depends on our understanding of the nature of God, then even fewer than any of us ever imagined is saved.

I just got through telling the congregation they were lazy this week. (I said, "how's that for truth this morning?") The vast majority of people that claim to be Christian (at least in the US and Europe) have never read the entire Bible and certainly don't read portions of it every week unless they are trying to argue a point.

I'd be more than happy to debate this topic!!

Danny
 
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nephilimiyr

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I do not believe that belief in the trinity doctrine is a requirement for salvation, nor is a belief that God is in three persons a reqirement to be saved. It sometimes is a requirement in order to belong to a church.
 
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Leimeng

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~ Good arguments can be made for both Trinitarian and Unitarian theology. While I tend towards Trinitarianism, I dont 100% discount Unitarianism. We know that Jesus died for our sins. If you want to understand God 100% though, well, I think it can probably NOT be done in this lifetime. Good question to ask when we are hanging out though around the throne!
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)
 
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New_Wineskin

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Simple question for discussion:

Is belief in the Trinity required for salvation? Must you be a trinitarian? Why or why not? Note: the question isn't whether or not the Trinity is in fact true or false, just whether or not it's required.

Since Abraham didn't know about it , I am saying , "no" .


And if it's not a requirement, then which of these is OK (do any of these "send you to hell"):

-Di-theism (two seperate gods: father and son) - no
-Tri-theism (3 seperate gods: father, son, HS) - no ( don't see a big difference between it and trinity )
-Modalism/Oneness: the Son is God and reveals Himself as Father Son and HS - no
-Denying that Jesus is God - as long as the godpel is believed , no
-Di-unity: (I'm sure there's a technical name) Just Father and Son as One God. - no
....something else?
 
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Tamara224

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I'll agree with everyone else. I don't believe belief in the Trinity is a requirement for salvation. I think it is the most supported by Scripture but I can see where reasonable minds might differ on it.

I get really irritated when people tell each other they're going to hell over this. It's usually an annoying argument like "well if you don't believe in the Trinity that means you're likely to believe x, y, z and that will probably lead you down the slippery slope to hell." I've seen that logically fallible argument in many discussions from all sides and it always annoys me. lol.


And if it's not a requirement, then which of these is OK (do any of these "send you to hell"):
-Di-theism (two seperate gods: father and son)
-Tri-theism (3 seperate gods: father, son, HS)
-Modalism/Oneness: the Son is God and reveals Himself as Father Son and HS
-Denying that Jesus is God
-Di-unity: (I'm sure there's a technical name) Just Father and Son as One God.
....something else?

IMHO, the only one that would "send you to hell" is the one I put in bold.

Denying that Jesus is God = not believing Jesus is who He said He is = not really believing in Jesus = not really saved.
 
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SUNSTONE

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I just got through telling the congregation they were lazy this week. (I said, "how's that for truth this morning?") The vast majority of people that claim to be Christian (at least in the US and Europe) have never read the entire Bible and certainly don't read portions of it every week unless they are trying to argue a point.

I'd be more than happy to debate this topic!!

Danny

Good stuff!! :thumbsup:

lazy, stupid, uncaring, and selfish
 
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pdudgeon

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amazing. simply amazing.:doh::cry:

i never thought that i would see a belief like this here, especially in this forum, or that it would be tollerated and affirmed.
 
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nephilimiyr

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amazing. simply amazing.:doh::cry:

i never thought that i would see a belief like this here, especially in this forum, or that it would be tollerated and affirmed.
pdudgeon, most if not all the people in this thread aren't saying that God isn't a trinity or in three persons, only that believeing He is so isn't a requirement for salvation. The Bible never comes close to saying that it is a requirement, and neither does it imply that it is a requirement. Go look at all the passages in the NT where the requirements of being saved is taught and you wont see believeing that God is a trinity as part of the requirements. This thread is not about debateing the doctrine and saying it is wrong.
 
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pdudgeon

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i'd like everyone to look at the op again.

Is belief in the Trinity required for salvation?

now can anyone tell me where they have seen such examples of similar phraseology before? and who uttered them?
 
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Tamara224

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i'd like everyone to look at the op again.



now can anyone tell me where they have seen such examples of similar phraseology before? and who uttered them?


I think I know what you're referring to (Serpent in the Garden of Eden?), but I think it doesn't apply.

If there were a positive instruction from God such as "you shall believe in the Trinity to be saved." Or even a statement such as "and no one who doesn't believe in the Trinity shall be saved", then it might be similar.

But to ask "did God really say" when, in fact, God didn't really say is not wrong. If someone said, for example, "Did God really say that He helps those who help themselves?", that wouldn't be wrong, that would be good. Because the TRUTHFUL answer is "no, God didn't say that."

So, that being said... Did God tell us that belief in the Trinity is required for salvation? If He did then please show us where.



P.S. Please ignore all of the above if that is not the incident you were referring to. :)
 
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nephilimiyr

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i'd like everyone to look at the op again.



now can anyone tell me where they have seen such examples of similar phraseology before? and who uttered them?
All I know is that for a long time after becoming a born again christian I had a very hard time understanding the concept of the Trinity. Does that mean I wasn't saved?

Also, look at all the people who become saved on their death bed. Are they told that soon they will slip away to hell unless they confess God as Trinity? Did jesus tell the thief on the cross next to him that first he had to believe that He was apart of a triune God before he could enter paradise with him? Belief in God as a triune God is not a requirement for salvation.
 
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pdudgeon

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I think I know what you're referring to (Serpent in the Garden of Eden?), but I think it doesn't apply.

BINGO! you got it!

if there were a positive instruction from God such as "you shall believe in the Trinity to be saved." Or even a statement such as "and no one who doesn't believe in the Trinity shall be saved", then it might be similar.

But to ask "did God really say" when, in fact, God didn't really say is not wrong. If someone said, for example, "Did God really say that He helps those who help themselves?", that wouldn't be wrong, that would be good. Because the TRUTHFUL answer is "no, God didn't say that."

So, that being said... Did God tell us that belief in the Trinity is required for salvation? If He did then please show us where.



P.S. Please ignore all of the above if that is not the incident you were referring to. :)

but it was the incident.:thumbsup:

what these two things have in common is that the questions were not inspired by God, but by satan to sow a wedge of doubt.
they both build on a portion of the truth, but only a portion.

where this question will/can lead is to the idea that one part of the trinity is not as important as the other parts. ie. if you only need God and the Son for salvation.............

on the other hand Jesus was quite distressed when on the cross He was parted from the union with the God the Father and the Holy Spirit that He had known.
there are only two incidents in the whole of the crucifiction when Jesus cried loudly--when He was separated by sin from God the Father and the Holy Spirit, (Mark 15:34) and when He cried out again (Mark 15:37) and breathed his last.

think about it.

there was only one other time when Jesus cried out with a loud voice.
That was when he had to wake the dead Lazarus.

All I know is that for a long time after becoming a born again christian I had a very hard time understanding the concept of the Trinity. Does that mean I wasn't saved?

Also, look at all the people who become saved on their death bed. Are they told that soon they will slip away to hell unless they confess God as Trinity? Did jesus tell the thief on the cross next to him that first he had to believe that He was apart of a triune God before he could enter paradise with him? Belief in God as a triune God is not a requirement for salvation.

fully understanding is different from believing by faith.
i dare say that we don't fully understand how God does lots of things, but the difference is that we believe that He can do them. indeed we have to believe that He can forgive sins, for it is the Holy Spirit Himself that persuades us to believe.

John 15:26 "But I will send you the Counselor--the Spirit of truth. He will come to you from the Father and will tell you all about me.

So you see, before we were saved, while someone was telling us about God and Jesus, it was the work of God and the Holy Spirit reaching out to us and working in our lives, even though we didn't know it at the time. But our spirit did.
And it was the quickened spirit with us that reached back to God and to Jesus and said 'YES".

so please don't tell me that it's not necessary for anyone to believe in all of the trinity in order to be saved.

it just ain't so.
 
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Yekcidmij

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what these two things have in common is that the questions were not inspired by God, but by satan to sow a wedge of doubt.
they both build on a portion of the truth, but only a portion.

:doh:
Some "evangelical" "christans" scare me.



So your thought is that Trinity is required for salvation. Got it. Thanks.
 
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