Trinity as doctrine?

[lucaspa]

When did the doctrine of the trinity first become canonical in the NT church?

The Council of Nicea in 325 AD. Up until that time (and even afterwards) there were numerous Christologies. Adoptionism was probably the first Christology, but early forms of Trinity were being discussed by Tertullian and others by 100 AD. Origen and others looked for scriptural support for Trinity.

Basically, Trinity is a product of the hypothetico-deductive method (the same one used by science). Early Christians asked themselves: what does Christ have to be in order for me to be saved? Trinity was the answer.

There were many alternatives, as I said. In the half century leading up to the Councile of Nicea there was a huge fight between Arius with Arianism (not Trinity) and Athanasius supporting Trinity.

Even after the Council of Nicea, there were disputes within the Church with some advocating views other than Trinity.

 

[lucaspa]

Thanks for these references.

Is it logical to assume these references allude to equality between the three?

Yes. There is considerable debate whether Matthew 28:19 was added by scribes later on. It's existence during the first 3 centuries of Christianity would preclude the type of debate that was going on.

If you want all the verses concerning Trinity, here they are:
The Deity of God the Father
John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
1 Cor 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
Gal 1:3 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
Eph 6:23 Peace be to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Phil 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
1 Th 1:1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Tim 1:2 To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.
Titus 1:4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.
1 Pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
2 Pet 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
2 John 1:3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
Jude 1:1 Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
Luke 3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
Luke 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
The Deity of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
John 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
John 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
John 13:13 Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Col 1:12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
The Word is identified as God and creator here in John, and the Word was made flesh, God incarnate. In conjuction with Ephesians 3:9 and Colossians 1:12-16, this is clearly speaking of Jesus Christ as God and Creator.
The Deity of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Acts 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Here in verse 3, Peter says Ananias has lied to the Holy Ghost, and in the next verse Peter says Ananias has lied to God. Clearly then according to Peter, the Holy Spirit is indeed deity, a part of the Godhead. This is also apparent from the following verse in the book of Matthew-
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
According to Matthew, baptism is to be in the name of all three persons of the Godhead.

Also, according to Scripture, the Holy Spirit -
•Participated in creation - Gen 1:2 •Is a Comforter - John 14:26 •Is eternal - Heb 9:14 •Speaks - 1 Tim 4:1; Rev 14:13 •Teaches - John 14:26 •Reveals the future - Luke 2:26 •Bears Witness - Rom 8:16 •Guides to the truth - John 16:13 •Gives life (quickens) - Rom 8:11; 1Pet 3:18 •Reproves - John 16:8 •Makes Intercession - Rom 8:26 •Indwells the believer - 1Cor 6:19 •Distributes gifts - 1Cor 12:11 •Seals the believer - Eph 1:13, 4:30 •Invites the Sinner - Rev 22:17 •Can be Blasphemed - Mat 12:31-32 •Conceived Jesus in Mary - Mat 1:20


A Trinity, but only one God
Mal 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
1 Cor 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

 

[a_ntv]

No, this is not true at all.
From the beginning of church history this verse was accepted and included in the Bible. Subsequent discoveries of potentially older manuscripts do not prove they are more correct merely because of suggested dating. Nor do quantities of documents support greater accuracy. So it depends on which ancient documents you put your trust in- I go along with the church has always believed and accepted as truth and accuracy.

Well, the KJV was made on bad quality manuscripts, and in many points, as here (1Jn5:8) the more ancient and more reliable manuscripts give a different reading than the KJV.
It is not only issue of "more ancient", but also of more reliable and also other criterias are considered, as that it is by far easier to understated a change from "Spirit, the water and the blood" to "the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost" rather than the contrary. (Lectio difficilior potior)

Thus all modern translations (see here) have "Spirit, the water and the blood".

About this verse the manuscript situation is the following:

- the reading "the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost":
μαρτυροῦντες ἐν τῷ οὐρανῷ, ὁ πατὴρ ὁ λόγος καὶ τὸ ἅγιον πνεῦμα, καὶ οὗτοι οἱ τρεῖς ἕν εἰσιν. 8 καὶ τρεῖς εἰσιν οἱ μαρτυροῦντες ἐν τῇ γῇ, τὸ πνεῦμα καὶ τὸ ὕδωρ καὶ τὸ αἷμα] (61 429v.r. omit the following καὶ οἱ τρεῖς εἰς τὸ ἕν εἰσι&#957 88v.r. 221v.r. (629 ἀπὸ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ, πατὴρ λόγος καὶ πνεῦμα ἅγιον, καὶ οἱ τρεῖς εἰς τὸ ἕν... ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς, τὸ πνεῦμα, τὸ ὕδωρ καὶ τὸ αἷμα and omit the following καὶ οἱ τρεῖς εἰς τὸ ἕν εἰσι&#957 (636v.r. omit οὗτο&#953 (918 καὶ πνεῦμα ἅγιο&#957 2318 2473 lAD vgcl armmss ς ND Dio
testimonium di c u n t (oppure dant) in terra, spiritus (oppure spiritus et) aqua et sanguis, et hi tres unum sunt in Christo Iesu. 8 et tres sunt, qui testimonium di c u n t in caelo, pater, verbum et spiritus] (itc itdem itdiv omit in Christo Iesu) itl itm itp (itq omit et hi tres unum sunt in Christo Iesu) vgmss (Cyprian) (Ps-Cyprian) (Priscillian) Ps-Vigilius Cassian Speculum Varimadum Fulgentius Ps-Athanasius Ansbert mssaccording to Victor-Vita

- the reading " Spirit, the water and the blood":
μαρτυροῦντες, 8 τὸ πνεῦμα καὶ τὸ ὕδωρ καὶ τὸ αἷμα] א A B K L P (Ψ 1844 1852 μαρτυροῦνσι&#957 048 049 056 0142 0296 1 18 33 35 42 69 81 82 88text 93 102 104 110 175 181 205 209 221text 307 322 323 326 330 398 400 424 429text 436 450 451 454 457 469 479 517 614 623 627 630 635 636text 643 920 945 1067 1175 1241 1243 1249 1292 1409 1505 1611 1735 1739 1844 1846 1852 1877 1881 2127 2138 2298 2344 2412 (2464 καὶ ὕδω&#961 2492 2495 2777 2815 Byz Lect (l884 βάπτισμα for αἷμ&#945 itar vgww vgst syrp syrh copsa copbo armmss eth geo arab slav Irenaeus Irenaeuslat Tertullian Hippolytus (Origenlat) Rebaptism Faustinus Hilary Lucifer Athanasius Basil Gregory-Nazianzus Ambrose Didymus Epiphanius Chrysostom Jerome Augustine (Cyril) Ps-Dionysiusvid Quodvultdeus Facundus (John-Damascus) NR CEI Riv TILC Nv NM

So it is quite sure, by the overwhelming majority of manuscripts, that the original reading was "Spirit, the water and the blood", so also the NA27. I'm sorry for King James.

This is illegible. Clarify?

This is an extract of the support manuscripts for each reading.
All the ancient manuscripts of the NT are listed (see List of New Testament uncials) and identified by a letter or a number.

Thus for example the reading &#964;&#8056; &#960;&#957;&#949;&#8166;&#956;&#945; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#964;&#8056; &#8021;&#948;&#969;&#961; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#964;&#8056; &#945;&#7991;&#956;&#945; <well, you shall know a little Greek: "to the Spirit(&#960;&#957;&#949;&#8166;&#956;&#945; ) and (&#954;&#945;&#8054 to the water (&#8021;&#948;&#969;&#961 and to the blood (&#945;&#7991;&#956;&#945> is found in following manuscripts: &#1488; (sinaiticus), A (alexandrinus) B (vaticanus) k (mosquensis) and so on till the more recent manuscript (the ones after the 2000). The list includes also the other particular readings, the readings in ancient translation (for example syrp), as well as quotation in ancient writings.

This is the main tool that any scholar can use to check the support of a reading in place of an alternative. These notes are listed in the reference Greek New Testament used today (and used by the majority of modern translation), the Greek edition of the NT, the Neste-Aland 27th edition, which suggests also the more probable reading.

I hope I've helped

PS th CF's editor automatically inserted "[bless and do not curse]" when it found the end of Latin word "di cu nt" ("they say"), sorry

 

[salida]

Is it your opinion the "us" is referring to the trinity? Would it have not been more consistent for the author of Genesis to have said, "We are the Lord Your God" when imparting the ten commandments?

http://www.gotquestions.org/three-gods.html

God is not speaking with the angels in Gen.1:26. The Bible refutes this. Isa.40:12-15 when speaking of God creating the world it asked, &#8220;With whom did he take counsel.&#8221; For the other subject to be angels it would mean they have the power to create as God does, and that man was made in their image also, which we know is not true.

The speaker of Gen.1:26 is God, the other He is speaking to are of the same nature and essence. The Bible teaches us that Jesus -not the angels - created all things: &#8220;All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.&#8221; (John 1:3) which means whoever God is speaking to has the same power as him. God did not create the world with assistance from any other being.

No, "we" wouldn't have been better-because he was talking to the Son. The three persons of the Godhead have different functions with mankind.