Trinitarianism: What Non-Trinitarians Believe

[CherubRam]

I believe we will see a powerful movement to discredit the Bible.

A test of any version is to go back to the original Hebrew and Greek and determine which version gives the most accurate translation to English.

I run the Hebrew and Greek all the time with the KJV and I have seen no serious mistakes at all. I have with several others.

None of the bibles are perfect. That is why people need to study more than one source.

 

[Gibs]

None of the bibles are perfect. That is why people need to study more than one source.

Yah has kept to us His Word to us as He would have it. The test of a version is how perfectly the translation to English it is.

I find the KJV is very, very good, never have I seen a better translation from the true meaning of the Hebrew or Greek.

 

[Der Alte]

I put names and dates in my post and you say: "Where is your sources." I quote notable works and you say: "I do not like your sources." According to you I am 100% wrong 100% of the time. Stop being a pest.

Names and dates are meaningless without direct quotes and at least the title of a written source. If you were charged with a crime and in court the only evidence against you was an article from Wiki, would you think that was good evidence? Or somebody saying "this other guy Joe White saw him do it on Aug 1." that's a name and a date. Would you think that was good evidence or would you ask for, rather demand that original documents or direct trestimony from any witnesses be presented?

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door.​

 

[Der Alte]

James VI of Scotland
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Masonic bible

It was against Catholic law for the common people to have a bible or a historical record. Bible possession once banned by the Catholic Church!

Your source does not say that possession of a Bible was prohibited. It says that possession of translations of the Bible in French or the Romance lanuages was forbidden. William Tyndale was executed in 1536 for translating the Bible into English.

 

[CherubRam]

Names and dates are meaningless without direct quotes and at least the title of a written source. If you were charged with a crime and in court the only evidence against you was an article from Wiki, would you think that was good evidence? Or somebody saying "this other guy Joe White saw him do it on Aug 1." that's a name and a date. Would you think that was good evidence or would you ask for, rather demand that original documents or direct trestimony from any witnesses be presented?

Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door.​

That is hearsay.

 

[CherubRam]

Your source does not say that possession of a Bible was prohibited. It says that possession of translations of the Bible in French or the Romance lanuages was forbidden. William Tyndale was executed in 1536 for translating the Bible into English.

THE COUNCIL OF TARRAGONA - 1234 A.D.

The Council of Tarragona of 1234, in its second canon, ruled that:


"No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned lest, be he a cleric or a layman, he be suspected until he is cleared of all suspicion."

-D. Lortsch, Historie de la Bible en France, 1910, p.14.

Amos 8:12
People will stagger from sea to sea and wander from north to east, searching for the word of the Lord, but they will not find it.

 

[ron4shua]

From the , Online Etymology Dictionary .
J The letter is a late modification of Roman -i-, originally a scribal creation in continental Medieval Latin to distinguish small -i- in cursive writing from the strokes of other letters, especially in the final positions of words. But in English, -y- was used for this, and -j- was introduced c.1600-1640 to take up the consonantal sound that had evolved from -i- since Late Latin times. This usage first was attested in Spanish, where it was in place before 1600. English dictionaries continued to lump together words beginning in -i- and -j- until 19c., and -j- formerly was skipped when letters were used to express serial order.

Used in modern writing to represent Latin -i- before a, e, o, u in the same syllable, which in Latin was sounded as the consonant in Modern English you, yam, etc., but the custom is controversial among Latinists:

The character J, j, which represents the letter sound in some school-books, is an invention of the seventeenth century, and is not found in MSS., nor in the best texts of the Latin authors. [Lewis]​

The king that financed the 1611 translation was born Iames .

Kingjamesbibleonline.org/BibleBooks/1611-Original-Book_Names

 

[Gibs]

The prophecy of Amos 8:12 is future. Already very few preachers preach the truth of the Word but Smooth things to please itching ears!

The days Amos speaks of is not far in the future. Even now the only safe teacher of His Word is, Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

 

[CherubRam]

From the , Online Etymology Dictionary .
J The letter is a late modification of Roman -i-, originally a scribal creation in continental Medieval Latin to distinguish small -i- in cursive writing from the strokes of other letters, especially in the final positions of words. But in English, -y- was used for this, and -j- was introduced c.1600-1640 to take up the consonantal sound that had evolved from -i- since Late Latin times. This usage first was attested in Spanish, where it was in place before 1600. English dictionaries continued to lump together words beginning in -i- and -j- until 19c., and -j- formerly was skipped when letters were used to express serial order.

Used in modern writing to represent Latin -i- before a, e, o, u in the same syllable, which in Latin was sounded as the consonant in Modern English you, yam, etc., but the custom is controversial among Latinists:

The character J, j, which represents the letter sound in some school-books, is an invention of the seventeenth century, and is not found in MSS., nor in the best texts of the Latin authors. [Lewis]​

The king that financed the 1611 translation was born Iames .

Kingjamesbibleonline.org/BibleBooks/1611-Original-Book_Names

In German the letter J is pronounced as a Y.

 

[Der Alte]

THE COUNCIL OF TARRAGONA - 1234 A.D.

The Council of Tarragona of 1234, in its second canon, ruled that:

"No one may possess the books of the Old and New Testaments in the Romance language, and if anyone possesses them he must turn them over to the local bishop within eight days after promulgation of this decree, so that they may be burned lest, be he a cleric or a layman, he be suspected until he is cleared of all suspicion."

-D. Lortsch, Historie de la Bible en France, 1910, p.14.

Amos 8:12
People will stagger from sea to sea and wander from north to east, searching for the word of the Lord, but they will not find it.

As I said your source does not show that common people were forbidden to have the Bible, proper, they were forbidden to have the Bible translated into the Romance languages. Those who are constantly trying to imply a failing in someone else by quoting scripture should pay attention to the log in their own eye. Just sayin'.

 

[Der Alte]

In German the letter J is pronounced as a Y.

And that is why we have "Jesus" today, because that is how the Greek Iesous [pr. Yaysoos] was transliterated in German, Jesus [pr. Yaysoos].

 

[Gibs]

Our God's name Is represented by four Hebrew characters that is transliterated to YHWH in English. Known then as the Tetragrammaton.

Why harp on this subject here in this thread, what non Trinitarians believe?

All scholars are still fighting about it and never will their be agreeing, this has been going on for most of the years of man.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The prophecy of Amos 8:12 is future. Already very few preachers preach the truth of the Word but Smooth things to please itching ears!

The days Amos speaks of is not far in the future. Even now the only safe teacher of His Word is,

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come

.

I would think this passage is more appropriate:

2 Tim 4:3
For shall be a time when the being sound teaching not they shall be bearing,
but according to the desires of the own selves, shall be heaping up teachers, being tickled/itched the hearing

.

 

[Gibs]

And also God is going to send a famine for the hearing of the True Word of God preached and it nigh on to us now!

Am 8:11 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
Am 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.

Will even a non corrupt Bible be kept? I think not as Satan hates the True Word of God and he has this world almost all under his finger now!

 

[Der Alte]

Our God's name Is represented by four Hebrew characters that is transliterated to YHWH in English. Known then as the Tetragrammaton.

Why harp on this subject here in this thread, what non Trinitarians believe?

All scholars are still fighting about it and never will their be agreeing, this has been going on for most of the years of man.

Largely because various religious groups and leaders make up their own transliterations for their own reasons and don't go directly to the source.

Jewish Encyclopedia-Names of God

In appearance, Yhwh (יהוה) is the third person singular imperfect "kal" of the verb ( הוה ("to be"), meaning, therefore, "He is," or "He will be," or, perhaps, "He lives," the root idea of the word being,probably, "to blow," "to breathe," and hence, "to live." With this explanation agrees the meaning of the name given in Ex. iii. 14, where God is represented as speaking, and hence as using the first person—"I am" (אהיה, from ( היה, the later equivalent of the archaic stem ( הוה). The meaning would, therefore, be "He who is self-existing, self-sufficient," or, more concretely, "He who lives," the abstract conception of pure existence being foreign to Hebrew thought. There is no doubt that the idea of life was intimately connected with the name Yhwh from early times. He is the living God, as contrasted with the lifeless gods of the heathen, and He is the source and author of life (comp. I Kings xviii.; Isa. xli. 26-29, xliv. 6-20; Jer. x. 10, 14; Gen. ii. 7; etc.). So familiar is this conception of God to the Hebrew mind that it appears in the common formula of an oath, "hai Yhwh" (= "as Yhwh lives"; Ruth iii. 13; I Sam. xiv. 45; etc.).
If the explanation of the form above given be the true one, the original pronunciation must have been Yahweh ((יהוה) or Yahaweh (יהוה). From this the contracted form Jah or Yah (יה ) is most readily explained, and also the forms Jeho or Yeho (יהו ), and Jo or Yo (יו contracted from יהו , which the word assumes in combination in the first part of compound proper names, and Yahu or Yah (יהו ) in the second part of such names. The fact may also be mentioned that in Samaritan poetry יהוה rimes with words similar in ending to Yahweh, and Theodoret ("Quæst. 15 in Exodum") states that the Samaritans pronounced the name Iαβέ. Epiphanius ascribes the same pronunciation to an early Christian sect. Clement of Alexandria, still more exactly, pronounces 'Iαουέ or 'Iαουαί, and Origen, 'Iα. Aquila wrote the name in archaic Hebrew letters. In the Jewish-Egyptian magic-papyri it appears as Ιαωουηε. At least as early as the third century B.C. the name seems to have been regarded by the Jews as a "nomen ineffabile," on the basis of a somewhat extreme interpretation of Ex. xx. 7 and Lev. xxiv. 11 (see Philo, "De Vita Mosis," iii. 519, 529). Written only in consonants, the true pronunciation was forgotten by them. The Septuagint, and after it the New Testament, invariably render κύριος ("the Lord").

Jewish Encyclopedia online​

 

[2ducklow]

Comments by scholars.
Historical proofs as to the way the trinitarian doctrine effected the pure doctrine of the disciples.





The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, Vol. 4, page 2637,
Under "Baptism," says: "Matthew 28:19 in particular only canonizes a later ecclesiastical situation, that its universalism is contrary to the facts of early Christian history, and its Trinitarian formula is foreign to the mouth of Jesus."

(1) In regard to Baptism it has been argued that as Mr 16:15 f occurs in a passage (Mr 16:9-20) which textual criticism has shown to have formed no part of the original Gospel, Mt 28:19, standing by itself, is too slender a foundation to support the belief that the ordinance rests upon an injunction of Jesus, more especially as its statements are inconsistent with the results of historical criticism. These results, it is affirmed, prove that all the narratives of the Forty Days are legendary, that Mt 28:19 in particular only canonizes a later ecclesiastical situation, that its universalism is contrary to the facts of early Christian history, and its Trinitarian formula "foreign to the mouth of Jesus" (see Harnack, History of Dogma, I, 79, and the references there given). It is evident, however, that some of these objections rest upon anti-supernatural pre-suppositions that really beg the question at issue, and others on conclusions for which real premises are wanting. Over against them all we have to set the positive and weighty fact that from the earliest days of Christianity Baptism appears as the rite of initiation into the fellowship of the church (Ac 2:38,41, et passim), and that even Paul, with all his freedom of thought and spiritual interpretation of the gospel, never questioned its necessity (compare Ro 6:3 ff; 1Co 12:13; Eph 4:5). On any other supposition than that of its appointment by our Lord Himself it is difficult to conceive how within the brief space of years between the death of Jesus and the apostle's earliest references to the subject, the ordinance should not only have originated but have established itself in so absolute a manner for Jewish and Gentile Christians alike.

Sacraments - International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

The ISBE is on line, and it says a lot more than what you quoted. One must keep in mind that most all Christian source books like encylopedias, are not going to come out against trinitarianism. I'm not for trinitarianism, but I don't expect Trinitarian sources to support non Trinitarian ideas either.

 

[CherubRam]

God's personal name, the only name given by Him, is Yahwah; also spelled Yahuah. There is no vowel in between His first and last name. His name means: Life Began, or, Life's Beginning. His name backwards means: Foundation of Life. That is one reason He is called the "Rock." God is the Foundation Rock, and Christ is the Capstone.

 

[CherubRam]

I often wonder if people are grasping what I'm telling them.

 

[Der Alte]

God's personal name, the only name given by Him, is Yahwah; also spelled Yahuah. There is no vowel in between His first and last name. His name means: Life Began, or, Life's Beginning. His name backwards means: Foundation of Life. That is one reason He is called the "Rock." God is the Foundation Rock, and Christ is the Capstone.

Nonsense! See my post above quoting the Jewish Encyclopedia [JE]. The JE was written and reviewed by more than 30 Jewish scholars, that is what is known as credible, verifiable, historical evidence.

 

[Jack Terrence]

God's personal name, the only name given by Him, is Yahwah; also spelled Yahuah. There is no vowel in between His first and last name. His name means: Life Began, or, Life's Beginning. His name backwards means: Foundation of Life. That is one reason He is called the "Rock." God is the Foundation Rock, and Christ is the Capstone.

Christ is the Rock. therefore, Christ is YHWH.