Trinitarianism: What Non-Trinitarians Believe

Gibs · Jul 19, 2014

THIS said:
A man did not become God that is impossible.

God became a Man.

The scriptures show us that Jesus existed in heaven before coming to earth.

Wow! God cannot and did not become a man and of course man cannot become God.

Now God can come and dwell in men is true and He does and does in some.

Now the case with Jesus is, God came and dwelt in Him in full measure, In ALL Fullness! He was Fully God the Father with us in His Body!

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

THIS · Jul 19, 2014

Gibs said:
Wow! God cannot and did not become a man and of course man cannot become God.

Now God can come and dwell in men is true and He does and does in some.

Now the case with Jesus is, God came and dwelt in Him in full measure, In ALL Fullness! He was Fully God the Father with us in His Body!

Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

You are badly mistaken.

Are you saved? If you are saved, do you have Jesus HIMSELF living inside you?

Do you think that you have a man's spirit living inside you, BESIDES YOUR OWN SPIRIT?

NO. We do not receive the spirit of a Man.

You keep wrongly teaching that Jesus was a mere man who became God.

Jesus IS God come as a Man.

Those saved are NOT given another spirit of a man to be with them forever.

We are given the Spirit of God.

Jesus is God.

We are given the Spirit of Christ who is God.

2ducklow · Jul 19, 2014

I've done some thinking on this problem of how Jesus a man be inside all believers. Obviously the spirit of God is inside or with all believers, and scripture says that the holy spirit is the spirit of Jesus. So here's my thought on that. Jesus had the spirit of God within him thus the holy spirit is the spirit of Jesus because the holy spirit is in Jesus in all it's fullness. So we who know Jesus know him by God's and JEsus holy spirit. And that is the reality that I experience. God knows us through his spirit, Jesus knows us through the same holy spirit, it cannot be otherwise. Is God the Holy Spirit, yes because the bible says so, Is Jesus the holy Spirit, no because the bible says the Holy spirit is the spirit of JEsus not the holy spirit is Jesus. God gave JEsus the holy Spirit just as God gave us the Holy Spirit and it is through that same holy Spirit that both Jesus and Christians know each other.

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Here's another way to look at it. I have a physical body, If I stretch out my arm in a hole just big enough to accomidate it and reach all the way to the back of the hole and grab a mouse, one could say I have a mouse, but it's only my hand that has a mouse, yet we'd say I have a mouse. Jesus has the holy spirit that reaches into or to all Christians and it's with that Holy Spirit that we know each other.

Gibs · Jul 19, 2014

2ducklow said:
I've done some thinking on this problem of how Jesus a man be inside all believers. Obviously the spirit of God is inside or with all believers, and scripture says that the holy spirit is the spirit of Jesus. So here's my thought on that. Jesus had the spirit of God within him thus the holy spirit is the spirit of Jesus because the holy spirit is in Jesus in all it's fullness. So we who know Jesus know him by God's and JEsus holy spirit. And that is the reality that I experience. God knows us through his spirit, Jesus knows us through the same holy spirit, it cannot be otherwise. Is God the Holy Spirit, yes because the bible says so, Is Jesus the holy Spirit, no because the bible says the Holy spirit is the spirit of JEsus not the holy spirit is Jesus. God gave JEsus the holy Spirit just as God gave us the Holy Spirit and it is through that same holy Spirit that both Jesus and Christians know each other.

If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Here's another way to look at it. I have a physical body, If I stretch out my arm in a hole just big enough to accomidate it and reach all the way to the back of the hole and grab a mouse, one could say I have a mouse, but it's only my hand that has a mouse, yet we'd say I have a mouse. Jesus has the holy spirit that reaches into or to all Christians and it's with that Holy Spirit that we know each other.

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

And that one Spirit is God and Jesus is not another God!

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

THIS · Jul 19, 2014

2ducklow said:
I've done some thinking on this problem of how Jesus a man be inside all believers. Obviously the spirit of God is inside or with all believers, and scripture says that the holy spirit is the spirit of Jesus. So here's my thought on that. Jesus had the spirit of God within him thus the holy spirit is the spirit of Jesus because the holy spirit is in Jesus in all it's fullness.

The Holy Spirit is Jesus.

2ducklow said:
So we who know Jesus know him by God's and JEsus holy spirit. And that is the reality that I experience. God knows us through his spirit, Jesus knows us through the same holy spirit, it cannot be otherwise. Is God the Holy Spirit, yes because the bible says so, Is Jesus the holy Spirit, no because the bible says the Holy spirit is the spirit of JEsus not the holy spirit is Jesus.

You are wrong when you say the Bible does NOT say Jesus is the Holy Spirit. The Bible SAYS Jesus is the Holy Spirit.

2ducklow said:
God gave JEsus the holy Spirit just as God gave us the Holy Spirit and it is through that same holy Spirit that both Jesus and Christians know each other.

I have the Holy Spirit inside me. That does NOT mean YOU HAVE ME INSIDE YOU!

2ducklow said:
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Here's another way to look at it. I have a physical body, If I stretch out my arm in a hole just big enough to accomidate it and reach all the way to the back of the hole and grab a mouse, one could say I have a mouse, but it's only my hand that has a mouse, yet we'd say I have a mouse. Jesus has the holy spirit that reaches into or to all Christians and it's with that Holy Spirit that we know each other.

Jesus SAYS that he HIMSELF will live inside us.

THIS · Jul 19, 2014

Gibs said:
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

And that one Spirit is God and Jesus is not another God!

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

You do not even know what you are arguing anymore. You are obviously confused.

Gibs · Jul 19, 2014

THIS said:
You are badly mistaken.

Are you saved? If you are saved, do you have Jesus HIMSELF living inside you?

Do you think that you have a man's spirit living inside you, BESIDES YOUR OWN SPIRIT?

NO. We do not receive the spirit of a Man.

You keep wrongly teaching that Jesus was a mere man who became God.

Jesus IS God come as a Man.

Those saved are NOT given another spirit of a man to be with them forever.

We are given the Spirit of God.

Jesus is God.

We are given the Spirit of Christ who is God.

Jesus had His, a man's spirit and also God the Father's in ALL fullness.

There is but one Spirit of Deity and that is the Father or you are not a non Trinitarian.

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

And that one Spirit is God and Jesus is not another God!

Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Of course the Spirit of God is not in any but His own, born anew of His Spirit.

Yes I have my Spirit and His Spirit dwells in me, not in ALL fullness as in Jesus.

No I do not teach Jesus was a mere Man that came as God, but the Man God chose to come and dwell in.

Yes I am saved and Christ and the Father dwell in me as of the incarnation the union was made that Christ and the Father are one. The zeal of LORD of Hosts performed this. So Christ in you is also the Father in you!

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Gibs · Jul 19, 2014

Sister This,

The LORD, God the Father is the one and only Holy Spirit. Jesus is not another God but He is the man God chose to come into and dwell in, in ALL fullness in the fullness of time!

You are expounding Trinitarian.

When you say Jesus is that Spirit you are misinformed. God the Father Only is that Spirit.

After the incarnation He and the Father became one,

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

And so now, He is a man and fully God also bodily as scripture states.

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

THIS · Jul 19, 2014

Gibs said:
Jesus had His, a man's spirit and also God the Father's in ALL fullness.

If Jesus had a mans spirit---THEN HOW IS IT THAT A MANS SPIRIT CAN LIVE IN THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE?
You are badly mistaken.

Gibs said:
There is but one Spirit of Deity and that is the Father or you are not a non Trinitarian.

You speak of things that you do not know.
Trinitarians rightly say there are three, but they wrongly say that the three are DISTINCT, which means different. They wrongly say that the three are SEPARATE.
The trinity rightly says that Jesus is God, but they wrongly say Jesus is not the Father.
Since Jesus IS God, then he is also the Father who is God; for there is only ONE GOD AND HE IS THE FATHER.

Gibs said:
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

And that one Spirit is God and Jesus is not another God!

That ONE SPIRIT IS GOD, and that PROVES JESUS IS THAT ONE GOD.
How MANY SPIRITS DO YOU HAVE LIVING INSIDE OF YOU THAT ARE GIVEN YOU FROM GOD?
We are ONLY GIVEN ONE SPIRIT---so then, how does God the Father AND Jesus Christ live in you if we only have one Spirit? I will tell you how. We are given one Spirit, and that one Spirit is God and that one Spirit is Jesus, because Jesus IS GOD.

THIS · Jul 19, 2014

Gibs said:
Sister This,

The LORD, God the Father is the one and only Holy Spirit. Jesus is not another God but He is the man God chose to come into and dwell in, in ALL fullness in the fullness of time!

You are expounding Trinitarian.

When you say Jesus is that Spirit you are misinformed. God the Father Only is that Spirit.

After the incarnation He and the Father became one,

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

And so now, He is a man and fully God also bodily as scripture states.

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

You speak not of wisdom and knowledge.

You cannot even explain your false doctrines.

No one can rightly explain false doctrines.

Jesus SAYS that he HIMSELF will live in believers.

You CANNOT explain this because you have a false belief.

Norah63 · Jul 19, 2014

Seems like this thread has morphed from what non trinitarians believe to the oness doctrine.
Numbers can sure be tricky.

Gibs · Jul 19, 2014

THIS said:
If Jesus had a mans spirit---THEN HOW IS IT THAT A MANS SPIRIT CAN LIVE IN THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE?
You are badly mistaken.

You speak of things that you do not know.
Trinitarians rightly say there are three, but they wrongly say that the three are DISTINCT, which means different. They wrongly say that the three are SEPARATE.
The trinity rightly says that Jesus is God, but they wrongly say Jesus is not the Father.
Since Jesus IS God, then he is also the Father who is God; for there is only ONE GOD AND HE IS THE FATHER.

That ONE SPIRIT IS GOD, and that PROVES JESUS IS THAT ONE GOD.
How MANY SPIRITS DO YOU HAVE LIVING INSIDE OF YOU THAT ARE GIVEN YOU FROM GOD?
We are ONLY GIVEN ONE SPIRIT---so then, how does God the Father AND Jesus Christ live in you if we only have one Spirit? I will tell you how. We are given one Spirit, and that one Spirit is God and that one Spirit is Jesus, because Jesus IS GOD.

Jesus dwells in us by the Father's Spirit which is in Him in ALL fullness!

No Jesus is not the Father, listen, I've given you this scripture before,

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

I have my spirit and the spirit of the Father in me whom is also in Christ in ALL fullness! He also has His Spirit and the Father's in ALL fullness!

When we die of this Body the spirit sleeps until the first or second resurrection and then is reunited in either a perfect body in the first or the corrupt body in the second.

Christ dwells in us by the Father's Spirit in Him.

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

Gibs · Jul 19, 2014

Norah63 said:
Seems like this thread has morphed from what non trinitarians believe to the oness doctrine.
Numbers can sure be tricky.

Well it is going nowhere at least with some participators, may be some guests that can pick out the truth from the error.

Well, a true non Trinitarian does not see any other than the Father The King of Israel as the one and only God as there is no other..

The following verses state far more than the average begin to see,

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Isa 43:12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.

THIS · Jul 19, 2014

Gibs said:
Well it is going nowhere at least with some participators, may be some guests that can pick out the truth from the error.

Well, a true non Trinitarian does not see any other than the Father The King of Israel as the one and only God as there is no other..

The following verses state far more than the average begin to see,

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Isa 43:12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.

Jesus is CALLED the SAVIOR.

You say there is none beside God. That is Jesus speaking.

Jesus is God.

If Jesus is not God, then who is that besides God named Jesus!

Mark 16:19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.

Psalm 110:1
Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."

Gibs · Jul 19, 2014

THIS said:
Jesus is CALLED the SAVIOR.

You say there is none beside God. That is Jesus speaking.

Jesus is God.

If Jesus is not God, then who is that besides God named Jesus!

Mark 16:19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.

Psalm 110:1
Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."

At that time here is the verse that tells us of this,

You will notice LORD and LORD

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. ( it is I, I, not we, we! )

It is LORD of Hosts back yonder that sits on the right of God and did until incarnate in Jesus and then after crucifixion He is there now but serving as our High Priest!

LORD of Hosts is the Father's extension of Himself to go separate and to be incarnate in Jesus in the fullness of time when He finally would be born of Mary, thus made of woman and His is the body prepared for the indwelling!

Cannot you see that LORD of Hosts is the one to be incarnate in Christ?

THIS · Jul 19, 2014

Gibs said:
At that time here is the verse that tells us of this,

You will notice LORD and LORD

Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. ( it is I, I, not we, we! )

It is LORD of Hosts back yonder that sits on the right of God and did until incarnate in Jesus and then after crucifixion He is there now but serving as our High Priest!

LORD of Hosts is the Father's extension of Himself to go separate and to be incarnate in Jesus in the fullness of time when He finally would be born of Mary, thus made of woman and His is the body prepared for the indwelling!

Cannot you see that LORD of Hosts is the one to be incarnate in Christ?

God is the Lord of Hosts.

Jesus is God come in the flesh as the Son of Man.

Gibs · Jul 19, 2014

THIS said:
Jesus is CALLED the SAVIOR.

You say there is none beside God. That is Jesus speaking.

Jesus is God.

If Jesus is not God, then who is that besides God named Jesus!

Mark 16:19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.

Psalm 110:1
Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."

Yes Jesus did ascend into Heaven and sit on the right hand of God after his crucifixion, that part is true.

No, Jesus saw himself as a man and said straight clear and plain that His Father is God and our Father and our God.

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

He definitely could speak as God as the Father dwelt in Him in ALL fullness! Thus making Him fully God in a body of the man that He was.

Again there comes a time when the vested Deity returns to the Father and this verse cinches it!

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

God the Father then will no longer be extended in Jesus!

THIS · Jul 19, 2014

Gibs said:
No, Jesus saw himself as a man and said straight clear and plain that His Father is God and our Father and our God.

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Jesus is God come as a Man.

Gibs said:
He definitely could speak as God as the Father dwelt in Him in ALL fullness! Thus making Him fully God in a body of the man that He was.

Jesus Spirit IS the Holy Spirit, which is God.

Gibs said:
Again there comes a time when the vested Deity returns to the Father and this verse cinches it!

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

[FONT=&quot]Jesus existed before coming to earth. God created Himself a body, the glorified body of Jesus Christ. Jesus gave up his body and came to earth in the flesh. When Jesus ascended into heaven, he received his glorified body back, after being made like his brothers, after being made perfect through what he suffered.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jesus is the head over every power and authority.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Father loves the Son and has placed EVERYTHING in his hands see John 3:35.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Colossians 2:10 and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jesus will reign over the house of Jacob forever. See Luke 1:33, and Revelation 11:15.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Now, read 1 Corinthians 15:25.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In 1 Corinthians 15:25, it says Jesus must REIGN UNTIL HE has put all his enemies under his feet.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In 1 Corinthians 15:24, it says Jesus will hand the kingdom to God the Father, after he [Jesus] has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Since the scriptures also say JESUS' KINGDOM WILL HAVE NO END, and the scripture also says Jesus will reign UNTIL...that shows us Jesus was God before coming to earth, he was God ALWAYS while on earth, and he is God in heaven now.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Luke 1:33 and he will reign over Jacob's descendants forever; his kingdom will never end."[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jesus is, and was always God, God with a body, a body before coming to earth, a human body while on earth, and back to his Spiritual body after ascending to heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We will be as Jesus is in his Spiritual resurrected body. There will be no[/FONT]
need for any Man to be over us in that time...for we will be as Jesus is.

Gibs said:
God the Father then will no longer be extended in Jesus!

You made that up; show which scripture says that.

Gibs · Jul 19, 2014

THIS said:
God is the Lord of Hosts.

Jesus is God come in the flesh as the Son of Man.

No, positively no, Jesus the man born of Mary is not God but God came and dwelt in Him at the incarnation!

What do you see as the incarnation and when did it occur?

THIS · Jul 19, 2014

Gibs,

You go on as if you have discussed thoroughly everything there is to discuss.

You do not answer questions sufficiently.

Tell me, how does Jesus' spirit, the man spirit, which you claim Jesus has---how does that spirit live inside ALL who believe in him?

What kind of spirit of a man is that? None, no spirit of a man can do that. However, the Spirit of God can do that. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. Jesus' Spirit is that Spirit.

Trinitarianism: What Non-Trinitarians Believe

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