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Trinitarianism: What Non-Trinitarians Believe

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You were already given many scriptures that SHOW that Jesus existed with God in heaven before coming to earth.

You are trying to nullify ALL those scriptures with one scripture you do not understand.

That scripture you posted does NOT mean Jesus did not exist with God in heaven before coming to earth.
 
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Gibs

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In answer to a quip of yours in another post,

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

And to answer one in this one,
Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Isa 43:12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.
 
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You have no idea what those scriptures mean.

That is Jesus speaking in the Old Testament. Jesus is God.
 
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I know you think I was born yesterday but I have learned a wee bit in the 82 plus yrs. I've been around.

You have not shown that here.

Do you think age guarantees knowledge of God's Truth?
 
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CherubRam

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Show us the scriptures where Christ says he is the Father or Holy Spirit?
 
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Show us the scriptures where Christ says he is the Father or Holy Spirit?

You posted right below it.

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
 
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Show us the scriptures where Christ says he is the Father or Holy Spirit?

I will give you even more scriptures that tell us Jesus is the Holy Spirit.


Jesus is the Spirit.

Revelation 2:7, 8, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22; 14:13; 22:17 all tell us Jesus is the Spirit.

See also 2 Corinthians 3:17, 18, and 1 Corinthians 15:45.
 
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Gibs

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Then tell us why Jesus said this,

Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

It is certain from that explanation that Jesus did not see Himself as God!!

Yes scripture does state He was to be called Father and etc., and could be as the Father dwelt in Him FULLY!

Lu 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Really there is no mystery once it is seen right, then the scriptures don't deny another.
 
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CherubRam

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I will give you even more scriptures that tell us Jesus is the Holy Spirit.


Jesus is the Spirit.

Revelation 2:7, 8, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22; 14:13; 22:17 all tell us Jesus is the Spirit.

See also 2 Corinthians 3:17, 18, and 1 Corinthians 15:45.

I like how you put corn in that bundle for texture.
 
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CherubRam

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You posted right below it.

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.


Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

This is how that verse should read.

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be upon his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, of the Mighty God and Everlasting Father, ministering in Peace. ( Or, leading in peace.


If you run the Hebrew word through a Hebrew to English translator is will read “minister.”
 
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Der Alte

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I addressed this post before.

 
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Because Jesus is God come as a MAN.

A man is lesser.

However, God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name.

See Philippians 2:9.
Yes scripture does state He was to be called Father and etc., and could be as the Father dwelt in Him FULLY!

Really there is no mystery once it is seen right, then the scriptures don't deny another.

God says Jesus will be called God, Father, and the Holy Spirit. That is what I call him.
 
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I like how you put corn in that bundle for texture.

Jesus is the Spirit.

Revelation 2:7, 8, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22; 14:13; 22:17 all tell us Jesus is the Spirit.

See also 2 Corinthians 3:17, 18, and 1 Corinthians 15:45.
 
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The Lord rebuke you for changing God's Word.

In the Old Testament, God calls HIMSELF THE FIRST AND THE LAST. That is exactly what Jesus calls himself in Revelation.

Isaiah 44:6 "This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

Isaiah 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.

JESUS calls HIMSELF the FIRST and the LAST in Revelation 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.

Read Revelation 22:12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.


Jesus calls himself the SAME EXACT name that God calls Himself. So then, why do you have a problem with my calling Jesus God?
 
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Gibs

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Sure, This, Jesus could rightly state, I am the first and last, as it is made clear that The Father came and dwelt in Him in ALL fullness. He truly was God the Father with us in a body of flesh. He was the body prepared for that!
 
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Gibs

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Jesus is the Spirit.

Revelation 2:7, 8, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22; 14:13; 22:17 all tell us Jesus is the Spirit.

See also 2 Corinthians 3:17, 18, and 1 Corinthians 15:45.

Certainly, Jesus can be called The Spirit, as The Father dwells in Him in ALL fullness.

Paul cinches this is true as when ALL things are under His feet, then our Father may be ALL IN ALL, yes finally!

1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, THAT GOD MAY BE ALL IN ALL

Our Father has no more need for all eternity of extending Himself for a Redeemer,

Na 1:9 What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.
 
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