Tree Rings a Problem for 6,000 Year Old Earth

Chinchilla said:

no death of animals either , Lion eat straw

Isaiah 11:7-9 King James Version (KJV)
7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.

8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

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Wrong time frame. That's in the future, not in the past.

bcbsr said:

Wrong time frame. That's in the future, not in the past.

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It's speaking of restoration by Christ , you can't restore lion to eating straw if it did not eat in first place the straw...

Chinchilla said:

If the 7 days were billions of years keeping the Sabbath does not make sense because we don't live billions of years on earth but in days it makes perfect sense .

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The only way you can get OEC to work is by using Gerald Schroeder theory that each day is half the length of the day before. Based on the theory of relativity and the teachings of great Kabbalah teachers and the oral tradition going back to the time of Abraham. Or maybe even all the way back to Adam.

bcbsr said:

Wrong time frame. That's in the future, not in the past.

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God knows the end from the beginning, there is no future or past for God. All things are perfected in & through Him from the moment He declares them. Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:" We want to say we are not perfect. Yet God is doing a work in us to perfect us.

Chinchilla said:

It's speaking of restoration by Christ , you can't restore lion to eating straw if it did not eat in first place the straw...

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The story is that the Serpent did a work to get God's creation to devour and destroy itself. So God is doing a work to restore all things to His plan and purpose.

Gal 5 "14 The entire Law is fulfilled in a single decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 15 But if you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out, or you will be consumed by each other. 16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.…"

I tend to ignore some science because its going to contradict Gods Word. Granted when it comes to the age of the earth many christians are split. But any guess that involves "millions" and what not is not believable. We were created on the 6th day. So if He can create all that He did in a week, then there is no reason for millions or billions of years to go by. Now some say "Well the 7 days is not meant to be literal! It could have been millions of years!".

At first I could say that could make sense. But the problem is He is all powerful, all knowing, all everything. To limit His power and say it took millions of years is showing He's not powerful. Saying He created everything in a week sounds powerful. Again then we get into other things science says like when dinos lived, the ages of some skeletons, dirt levels that they dig for...etc. Its why I remember the devil is full of lies. So maybe some of the things that science says are "millions" of years old are just for lack of better words planted evidence by the devil. I mean from what I understand the devil doesn't have that sort of power to create something and thus plant it as anti-evidence. But none the less he can trick people. Thats his whole purpose is to draw people away from God.

I believe earth is somewhere between 6k-10k years old at most. 10k being stretching it. If Jesus lived over 2,000 years ago and the new testament took place around/before Jesus, then that means history doesn't go very far back before '0 AD". If you look at the "begot" lists in the bible of who begot who and do some basic math you can see we only went so far back so earth wasn't that old since we were created on the 6th day.

The one flaw though is we MUST remember some people in the bible lived WELL into 3 digit ages. So we can't go "40yo + 40yo + 90yo=...etc". So its why I say 10k could be the max taking into account long life spans during new testament times.

In the end as with anything else we have to go by faith, even when science says otherwise. And we must also remember knowing earths age is not important for getting into heaven. Gods not doing a test when die.

Chinchilla said:

Dunno , some say the brain death is permament death but some people who looked like they had thier brain dead suddenly woke up from coma so you never know .

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I was in a drug induced coma for a week so I have done the research on this. The cells in the brain continue to produce the enzyme that breaks down the oxygen. If and when you reintroduce oxygen to the brain this can cause the cells to explode. If the conditions are cold this slows down the production of this enzyme and there is a better chance of resuscitation. Also if you do CPR you can get enough oxygen to the brain to keep the cells alive. For the most part only emergency medical people know this information because that is their job. So if someone dies and you pack them on ice right away you have a better chance of resuscitation when you get a hold of a defibrillator. Or if you perform CPR you can keep the cells in the brain alive for up to half an hour. If it were not for that you could start people again as long as they have not decomposed to much.

Chinchilla said:

There was no death before sin , can't be evolution .

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So why was there a tree of life in the garden? A tree whose fruit they evidently had not yet eaten when they ate the forbidden fruit, because God said (Genesis 3:22) “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.” If Adam and Eve had already eaten of it, they would have "lived forever." There is nowhere in the creation story that intimates that Adam and Eve would have lived physically forever without eating of the "tree of life."

The disobedience led not to physical death but to spiritual death - a shattered relationship with God, an enslavement to animal instincts, a situation of mistrust, fear, sense of shame, etc. That spiritual death occurred instantaneously.

Virtually all life forms (excepting possibly lichens and such, and certain microbes- bacteria, etc.) depend on some other creature's death or mutilation to survive. This includes most plants.

NothingIsImpossible said:

I tend to ignore some science because its going to contradict Gods Word.

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True science does not ever contradict a true translation / interpretation of the word of God. We need Science to understand the Bible and we need the Bible to understand Science. God gives us Science and God give us the Bible. It would be impossible for God to contradict Himself or deny Himself.

NothingIsImpossible said:

To limit His power and say it took millions of years is showing He's not powerful.

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There is no time for God, He is outside of time. We can only see time from our perspective.

I believe earth is somewhere between 6k-10k years old at most.

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Moses and Peter tells us that a day is 1,000 years. The age we live in now began around 12,980 years ago. This is when there was a massive extinction and a new beginning. Science calls this a radiation or population explosion where 10% of the species survive to repopulate the earth. The Bible calls this Remnant theology. The Bible is recorded history beginning 6,000 years ago with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. Before recorded history God gives us the natural record. Fossils, geology and things like that. Also there is wisdom, knowledge and understanding in Creation because God wants us to know what He did.

There are 31 verses in Genesis chapter one, there are 31,000 verses in the Bible. In the library of Harvard University there are over 200,000 books that go into detail about what God did in the first 31 verses of the Bible. Beginning. We would still only just be beginning to understand. Because God in infinite. So when we start to discover God we see He has no beginning and He has no end. He declares from the Beginning and what He declares comes into being. Isiah 55:11 "11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."

There is no end to learning, only we need to come to a knowledge of the truth.

Monna said:

So why was there a tree of life in the garden? A tree whose fruit they evidently had not yet eaten when they ate the forbidden fruit, because God said (Genesis 3:22)

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They could eat from this tree it was not forbidden , there was no problem because they had no sin but if they ate after sin they would live and decompose slowly ending up in speaking pile of dust or something worse , it was for thier own good to have it taken away from them .

We know believers in 1000 year kingdom can eat the fruit of such tree .

NothingIsImpossible said:

tend to ignore some science because its going to contradict Gods Word. Granted when it comes to the age of the earth many christians are split.

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It does not contradict at all , if you read Genesis 1 and see the firmament and that's the earth is flat well because it is flat .

Job 37:18 King James Version (KJV)
18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

There is difference between science and scientism .
Science does repeatable experiments while scientism assumes that God does not exist and do experiments and definitions to avoid invoking him .
Like they see speed of light changing so they define the meter by speed of light and the speed of light by meter , wow they fixed the problem now they both change so nobody notices ...

You all do realize that this argument is a moot point? If you believe, the you believe, if you don't, then you don't. My faith is built upon the salvation of Christ's sacrifice for my salvation, not on how old creation is. We only have the Biblical account, which can reasonably be argued for either old or young, but does it really matter? Is the age of the earth a significant factor in one's salvation?

Chinchilla said:

We know believers in 1000 year kingdom can eat the fruit of such tree .

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We can eat from the tree of life now but it is difficult for finite to deal with infinite. You cannot put new wine in an old wine skin.

NW82 said:

ou all do realize that this argument is a moot point?

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Yes exactly. I have a son that is working on a degree in Computer Engineering and the last thing he needs to be doing is wasting time on stuff like this. There are no contradictions between Science and the Bible so there is really nothing to talk about.

Chinchilla said:

You can feeze some animals and they come back to life after ice melts . Life is strange

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Bacteria can come back to life after being frozen for millions of years.

The earth is billions of years old. God gave us science. Science can prove how old things are.

People take Genesis too literally. The words have more meaning to them than just black and white.

Chinchilla said:

You assume things like entropy to be linear , speed of light to be linear and radiation to be linear , what if you have false assumptions ? We simply don't know .

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Evidence for any of it not being constant and/or predictable via current measurements? (HINT: there is none, besides fudging numbers in order to get the result you want.)

Chinchilla said:

By the genealogy in Bible we know the time untill the flood .

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Only according to a strictly literalist interpretation (which is a relatively recent invention, btw)

joshua 1 9 said:

Yes exactly. I have a son that is working on a degree in Computer Engineering and the last thing he needs to be doing is wasting time on stuff like this. There are no contradictions between Science and the Bible so there is really nothing to talk about.

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Thank you for ignoring the entire rest of my post, where the rationale of the first sentence is made.