Tree of the Knowledge of Good & Evil

joshua 1 9 · Sep 27, 2019

bling said:
This is outside my training, but just having a place where the brain makes decisions, does not mean it is outside of natural determining factors.

Science and Religion go hand in hand. We are told to choose life: "This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live" (Deut 30:19) Clearly we are given options, life or death, sickness or health, poverty or prosperity, blessing or curse. There are many choices that we all make very day of our lives. WE are encouraged to make the right choice. Not only for ourselves but for our family also.

Noxot · Sep 28, 2019

joshua 1 9 said:
Joseph Smith & others teach that it was God's will for Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The problem with this is that God told them NOT to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. A lot of the Bible is based on us doing the will of God. We know that God will cause good to come out of their disobedience. But I do not see how by any stretch of the imagination they can claim this was God will to do what HE told them NOT to do.

If you tell a kid not to do something they will probably do it.

PROPHECYKID · Sep 28, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
God hadn't given them the "spirit of obedience" (the Holy Spirit). He allowed them to fall to Satan's chicanery. It was all foreordained.

The fall of Eve (and then of Adam) was a reenactment of the fall of Lucifer, and was the opening act of God's plan of "the restitution of all things".

I disagree with the word foreordained here. To ordain means to order, decree or at least give your blessing on something. God did not want man to fall. He had foreknowledge, he Foreplanned but he did not foreordain.

PROPHECYKID · Sep 28, 2019

joshua 1 9 said:
He does give us choice. Science says we can choose. The legal system says we can choose. Only people like the Calvinists say we are little more than an animal that has a brain that has not evolved to being able to make choices. Science contradicts Calvinism.

This is why they say Adam is type of Christ. Adam did not want to be separated from Eve so he followed her in death. Adam sacrificed himself to die for his wife. Christ did not want to be separated from His Bride so He followed her to die for her on the Cross.

I know that Adam is a type of Christ but I never saw anyone explain it with that reasoning. It does make sense when you think about it.

joshua 1 9 · Sep 28, 2019

PROPHECYKID said:
I know that Adam is a type of Christ but I never saw anyone explain it with that reasoning. It does make sense when you think about it.

This does help to reconcile some of the different schools of thought. Adam and his descendants do become Joint Heirs with Christ. This is all about the "marriage" between Jesus & His Bride.

joshua 1 9 · Sep 28, 2019

Noxot said:
If you tell a kid not to do something they will probably do it.

My dad raised me using reverse psychology. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.

OldWiseGuy · Sep 28, 2019

PROPHECYKID said:
I disagree with the word foreordained here. To ordain means to order, decree or at least give your blessing on something. God did not want man to fall. He had foreknowledge, he Foreplanned but he did not foreordain.

Regardless, it was God's plan.

Galil7.62x51 · Sep 28, 2019

joshua 1 9 said:
One third followed Lucifer in his rebellion. So God only needs one third of humans to be saved to take their place.

Don’t know if I would go that far brother, We are not like the angels, we are created in God’s image and will judge the angels. What scripture leads you to believe we are just replacements for the 1/3 of the angels that fell?

joshua 1 9 · Sep 28, 2019

Galil7.62x51 said:
What scripture leads you to believe we are just replacements for the 1/3 of the angels that fell?

Rev 12:2 "Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth." Rev 20:2 "He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years." This is usually considered to be Lucifer.

The literal scripture in Zechariah refers to Israel, but this also applies to the Church or the Gentiles.

"And in all the land, declares the LORD, two-thirds will be cut off and perish, but a third will be left in it. This third I will bring through the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold.They will call on My name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are My people,’ and they will say, ‘The LORD is our God.’” (Zechariah 13:8,9)

miggles · Sep 28, 2019

joshua 1 9 said:
Joseph Smith & others teach that it was God's will for Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The problem with this is that God told them NOT to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. A lot of the Bible is based on us doing the will of God. We know that God will cause good to come out of their disobedience. But I do not see how by any stretch of the imagination they can claim this was God will to do what HE told them NOT to do.

is joseph smith the mormon messiah? there's a lot of mormon beliefs that contradict the HOLY BIBLE. imo.

joshua 1 9 · Sep 28, 2019

miggles said:
is joseph smith the mormon messiah? there's a lot of mormon beliefs that contradict the HOLY BIBLE. imo.

Yes, we had some Mormon missionaries coming to the house once a week for bible study. There were to many things that I had problems with that just did not seem to line up with the Bible.

Galil7.62x51 · Sep 28, 2019

joshua 1 9 said:
Rev 12:2 "Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth." Rev 20:2 "He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years." This is usually considered to be Lucifer.

The literal scripture in Zechariah refers to Israel, but this also applies to the Church or the Gentiles.

"And in all the land, declares the LORD, two-thirds will be cut off and perish, but a third will be left in it. This third I will bring through the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold.They will call on My name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are My people,’ and they will say, ‘The LORD is our God.’” (Zechariah 13:8,9)

I wasn’t aware of that scripture, Thanks. It is awesome to learn new things like this. I always wondered if God was replacing the 1/3 that fell with true believers. It seemed plausible, but I never preached that because I wasn’t sure. I always like to have 2 or 3 scriptures “witnesses” to back up a statement I make about God’s word.

Galil7.62x51 · Sep 28, 2019

Jonathan Walkerin said:
So an all potent and wise being creates humans with all their flaws and curiosity with zero life experience and to occupy their time they can like admire the scenery, name animals and the like so if we looked at this it would sound like they are behaving like children, have tasks of the children and no responsibilities. No hardship, no needs.....

Then this all potent being puts in middle of the garden something intriguing and tells them not to touch it, lets an agitator snake in and suddenly it is the human`s choice ( female of course) the led to fall.

Does not really make any sense does it unless you consider it foreordained which of course seems a pretty nasty thing to do to humans.

How can anyone take this being anything other than allegory is beyond me.

Fellow Christian, your words project anger and resentment towards God. We both know this won’t turn out good. Regardless of whether things were foreordained or if it seem like a nasty thing to do, don’t let the devil bound your heart with negativity. It’s all part of God’s master plan. If you truly are seeking the truth, then humble yourself and pray for Jesus to enter your heart and show you. He will guide you on the path or righteousness unto all truth. We are perfected through Christ into everlasting life. Jesus is our tree of life, our only hope of glory. Jesus brake the bread and gave the wine and said to eat his flesh and drink his blood in remembrance of Him. He is the way the truth and the life, his flesh was broken and his blood was spilled for the redemption of our sins. Draw nigh to God and He will draw nigh to you.

martymonster · Sep 28, 2019

joshua 1 9 said:
Joseph Smith & others teach that it was God's will for Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The problem with this is that God told them NOT to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. A lot of the Bible is based on us doing the will of God. We know that God will cause good to come out of their disobedience. But I do not see how by any stretch of the imagination they can claim this was God will to do what HE told them NOT to do.

The thing that everybody seems to leave out, is that having a knowledge of good and evil, is necessary first step to becoming like God, and since that was is his purpose for creating man, then Joseph Smith is actually right.

GTW27 · Sep 28, 2019

Noxot said:
If you tell a kid not to do something they will probably do it.

But a kid today has something within, that Adam and Eve had not. Do you know what is within man Noxot? It is within the pages. Good to see you are still around. Something to consider, " No longer do I call you servants, but friends, for a servant knows not what his master is doing."

joshua 1 9 · Sep 28, 2019

martymonster said:
is necessary first step to becoming like God

This is serpent talk: "you will be like God, knowing good and evil." Genesis 3 5

martymonster · Sep 29, 2019

joshua 1 9 said:
This is serpent talk: "you will be like God, knowing good and evil." Genesis 3 5

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The lie was that they would not surely die.

fhansen · Sep 29, 2019

joshua 1 9 said:
Joseph Smith & others teach that it was God's will for Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The problem with this is that God told them NOT to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. A lot of the Bible is based on us doing the will of God. We know that God will cause good to come out of their disobedience. But I do not see how by any stretch of the imagination they can claim this was God will to do what HE told them NOT to do.

Yes! God did not want them to do what He forbade them to do. But, foreknowing their act of disobedience He deemed it good to create anyway, knowing the beginning from the end and endeavoring to bring a greater good out of their sin and its consequences at the end of the day. God allowed them the freedom to "touch the hot stove" of disobedience (denying His godhood) so that, having experienced the consequences of existence apart from Him humanity may ultimately come to learn the simple truth of Jesus's statement in John 15:5: "Apart from Me you can do nothing." Adam had thought otherwise.

Yes, its always been a matter of the human will. And, having His plan in place since the beginning, God's been patiently working with man down through the centuries to finally cultivate in him a rightly ordered will, in line with His own, by molding and "educating" us until the point that we might begin to appreciate and embrace the Light when we see it, when it was presented to the world via the Incarnation.

Galil7.62x51 · Sep 29, 2019

martymonster said:
Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

The lie was that they would not surely die.

Gen 3:22 is just stating that we know the same things that God knows about good and evil. It doesn’t mean that we are turned into some kind of god. Its like hearing someone say “Oh look at little Johnny picking his nose, He’s just like his Dad”. Johnny didn’t become his dad he just learned to pick his nose the way his Dad does. Jesus is the tree we must partake of now to have everlasting life.

martymonster · Sep 29, 2019

Galil7.62x51 said:
Gen 3:22 is just stating that we know the same things that God knows about good and evil. It doesn’t mean that we are turned into some kind of god. Its like hearing someone say “Oh look at little Johnny picking his nose, He’s just like his Dad”. Johnny didn’t become his dad he just learned to pick his nose the way his Dad does. Jesus is the tree we must partake of now to have everlasting life.

Absolutely, and that's why it was merely the necessary first step toward being made in the image of God. If being created in the image of God was a done deal, would Adam and Eve disobeyed God?

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