How would you explain the difference between the Tree of Life and Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil? Why did God put it in the garden?
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Tree of Life vs Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil
- Thread starter scvic
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scvic said:
Tree of life -> eat of it and you live forever.
Tree of knowledge of good and evil -> exactly that, eat of it and you understand what is good and what is not.
By eating of the tree when God told them not to, Adam in effect told God that he wanted life without Him and that He wanted to decide truth for himself, independent of God.
I believe that the tree was placed there such that Adam and Eve could decide whether or not they wanted to stay in fellowship with God (by not eating of the tree) or not wanting to live a life with God (by eating of the tree). God wanted to give Adam and Eve the choice to live with or without Him.
I'm not too sure of why the tree of life was placed there though.
Just my guess.
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Place a small child in a room full of toys. Tell him/her that they can play with any toy except the red truck. Guess which one the child will want to play with. The red truck will be the only toy on the child's mind, and he/she will not be able to resist the temptation to play with it. The child will ignore all the other toys, no matter how glitzy.
God did this deliberately to Eve and Adam. He knew what she would do (and what Adam would do, as well) especially with the tempter directing her attention to the forbidden toy. It was preordained that they would do what they did.
The tree of life was the best toy in the room, but was ignored by Eve and Adam.
God did this deliberately to Eve and Adam. He knew what she would do (and what Adam would do, as well) especially with the tempter directing her attention to the forbidden toy. It was preordained that they would do what they did.
The tree of life was the best toy in the room, but was ignored by Eve and Adam.
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Good thoughts guys...
What do you think of the following verse : Gen 3:22 - And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
What do you think of the following verse : Gen 3:22 - And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
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The tree of life could also have something to do with God giving them a choice for good as well as a choice for bad. If he'd let them continue to eat the fruit from the tree of life, it would be essentially saying that sin has no consequence, and there wasn't any issues.. There would be no reason to need saving if they simply picked which fruit they ate as to whether they had a good day or a naughty one. The tree of life symbolised purity and goodness, which they could never quite have again.
I guess God said- you did what you knew was wrong, there has to be consequences and you will see why I made it the way I did, so you can't play with the 'red truck' anymore
I guess God said- you did what you knew was wrong, there has to be consequences and you will see why I made it the way I did, so you can't play with the 'red truck' anymore
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The knowledge of Good and Evil was hung on the Tree of Life when it was placed on Jesus at the Cross and he carried all our sins and HIS heart ruptured and his side was opened for us.
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scvic said:
The tree of life represented eternal life, and if they had eaten of it then they would have remained in their fallen, unrepentant state for eternity, like Satan was destined to do. God had made man mortal so that he could die and be raised up as new spiritual creatures, having received the saving grace needed for that reformation.
Much of what God says is rhetorical, revealing the next steps in the plan. There never was a chance that they would have actually eaten of the tree of life, but there was no doubt that they would eat of the tree of knowledge.
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Vasileios
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I wrote this in another thread but I think it might be helpful (or not in which case I apologise)
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St. Gregory the Theologian (one of the three only in the EOC) talked about the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. He said that it was indeed a literal tree but also meant something very profound. He identified it as contemplation. He said that Adam and Eve could reach this Knowledge of Good and Evil through contemplation. A process that would take longer if they stayed in the Garden of Eden in the presence of God, who is only Good and thus it is more difficult to understand Evil. Contemplation, ie the constant dwelling of the nous towards God, which was by default granted as they lived in His presence.
Adam and Eve ate from the Tree without this understanding, ie without making a conscious (free will-in his Image) choice between Good and Evil. So, now they had to experience Good and Evil, ie experience all the fruits of Evil, which is Sin and Sin is Death. Before eating the Tree of Life and being unable to make the free will choice between Good and Evil (Life and Death) they are sent to the world.
And see how this all is a choice, when Adam and Eve chose (albeit not the ultimate choice) to disobey God, to chose to obey the Serpent's words instead of God's. They could not make the ultimate choice because they had no Knowledge of Good and Evil. They had not experienced Evil, experienced Death.
Now, we all experience Death. That is we all inherited the *consequences* of Adam's Sin, not the guilt.
But we very much should continue the contemplation. And chose. When you chose Good and contemplating Good, chose God, one thing you find is there is not one point to reach. You are aiming for the eternal, infinite God. You are aiming for eternal Love. And Orthodox Christians describe this ongoing process as Theosis. In reality this means a person aiming to be Christ-like, ie aiming to reach his level of Love and Humility.
I'm sorry if I confused and I'm terribly sorry to my Orthodox brethren if I presented something wrong. I am no scholar so I welcome corrections (in fact I expect them!)
God bless
PS: A good source for Genesis, full of many quotes by Church Fathers about the first days and interpretation can be found in Fr. Seraphim's book Genesis, Creation and Early Man. It was written mainly to give a patristic perspective on the theory of evolution but since it involves looking at Genesis it has rich theology about Adam and Evem, the Garden of Eden and the Original Sin.
The book can be found here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1887904026/202-2981700-0986245
or here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1887904026/002-3623571-8632808?redirect=true
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St. Gregory the Theologian (one of the three only in the EOC) talked about the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. He said that it was indeed a literal tree but also meant something very profound. He identified it as contemplation. He said that Adam and Eve could reach this Knowledge of Good and Evil through contemplation. A process that would take longer if they stayed in the Garden of Eden in the presence of God, who is only Good and thus it is more difficult to understand Evil. Contemplation, ie the constant dwelling of the nous towards God, which was by default granted as they lived in His presence.
Adam and Eve ate from the Tree without this understanding, ie without making a conscious (free will-in his Image) choice between Good and Evil. So, now they had to experience Good and Evil, ie experience all the fruits of Evil, which is Sin and Sin is Death. Before eating the Tree of Life and being unable to make the free will choice between Good and Evil (Life and Death) they are sent to the world.
And see how this all is a choice, when Adam and Eve chose (albeit not the ultimate choice) to disobey God, to chose to obey the Serpent's words instead of God's. They could not make the ultimate choice because they had no Knowledge of Good and Evil. They had not experienced Evil, experienced Death.
Now, we all experience Death. That is we all inherited the *consequences* of Adam's Sin, not the guilt.
But we very much should continue the contemplation. And chose. When you chose Good and contemplating Good, chose God, one thing you find is there is not one point to reach. You are aiming for the eternal, infinite God. You are aiming for eternal Love. And Orthodox Christians describe this ongoing process as Theosis. In reality this means a person aiming to be Christ-like, ie aiming to reach his level of Love and Humility.
I'm sorry if I confused and I'm terribly sorry to my Orthodox brethren if I presented something wrong. I am no scholar so I welcome corrections (in fact I expect them!)
God bless
PS: A good source for Genesis, full of many quotes by Church Fathers about the first days and interpretation can be found in Fr. Seraphim's book Genesis, Creation and Early Man. It was written mainly to give a patristic perspective on the theory of evolution but since it involves looking at Genesis it has rich theology about Adam and Evem, the Garden of Eden and the Original Sin.
The book can be found here:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1887904026/202-2981700-0986245
or here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1887904026/002-3623571-8632808?redirect=true
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icxn
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I'm not a scholar either but I find St. Maximus' explanation easier to understand though similar to St. Gregory's:Vasileios said:
30. There is a great and unutterable difference between the tree of life and the one which is not the tree of life. This is clear simply from the fact that the one is called the tree of life while the other is merely called the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (cf. Gen. 2:9). Unquestionably, the tree of life is productive of life; the tree that is not called the tree of life, and so is not productive of life, is obviously productive of death. For only death is the opposite of life.
31. The tree of life, when understood as symbolizing wisdom, likewise differs greatly from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, in that the latter neither symbolizes wisdom nor is said to do so. Wisdom is characterized by intellect and intelligence, the state which is opposite to wisdom by lack of intelligence and by sensation.
32. Since man came into being composed of noetic soul and sentient body, one interpretation could be that the tree of life is the soul’s intellect, which is the seat of wisdom. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil would then be the body’s power of sensation, which is clearly the seat of mindless impulses. Man received the divine commandment not to involve himself actively and experientially with these impulses; but he did not keep the commandment.
33. Both trees in Scripture symbolize the intellect and the senses. Thus the intellect has the power to discriminate between the spiritual and the sensible, between the eternal and the transitory. Or rather, as the soul’s discriminatory power, the intellect persuades the soul to cleave to the first and to transcend the second. The senses have the power to discriminate between pleasure and pain in the body. Or rather, as a power existing in a body endowed with soul and sense-perception, they persuade the body to embrace pleasure and reject pain.
34. If a man exercises only sensory discrimination between pain and pleasure in the body, thus transgressing the divine commandment, he eats from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, that is to say, he succumbs; to the mindless impulses that pertain to the senses; for he possesses only the body’s power of discrimination, which makes him embrace pleasure as something good and avoid pain as something evil. But if he exercises only that noetic discrimination which distinguishes between the eternal and the transitory, and so keeps the divine commandment, he eats from the tree of life, that is to say, from the wisdom that appertains to his intellect; for he exercises only the power of discrimination associated with the soul, which makes him cleave to the glory of what is eternal as something good, and avoid the corruption of what is transitory as something evil.
35. Goodness so far as the intellect is concerned is a dispassionate predilection for the spirit; evil is an impassioned attachment to the senses. Goodness so far as the senses are concerned is the impassioned activity of the body under the stimulus of pleasure; evil is the state destitute of such activity.
36. He who persuades his conscience to regard the evil he is doing as good by nature reaches out with his moral faculty as with a hand and grasps the tree of life in a reprehensible manner; for he thinks that what is thoroughly evil is by nature immortal. Therefore God, who has implanted in man’s conscience a natural hatred of evil, cuts him off from life, for he has now become evil in his will and intention. God acts in this way so that when a man does wrong he cannot persuade his own conscience that what is thoroughly evil is good by nature.
37. The vine produces wine, the wine drunkenness and drunkenness an evil form of ecstasy. Similarly the intelligence - which is the vine - when well-nurtured and cultivated by the virtues, generates spiritual knowledge; and such knowledge produces a good form of ecstasy which enables the intellect to transcend its attachment to the senses.
38. It is the devil’s practice maliciously to confound the forms and shapes of sensible things with our conceptual images of them. Through these forms and shapes are generated passions for the outward aspects of visible things, and our intellectual energy, being halted at the level of what pertains to sense-perception, cannot raise itself to the realm of intelligible realities. In this way the devil despoils the soul and drags it down into the turmoil of the passions.
(St Maximos the Confessor, "Various Texts on Theology, the Divine Economy, and Virtue and Vice, 2nd Century")
31. The tree of life, when understood as symbolizing wisdom, likewise differs greatly from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, in that the latter neither symbolizes wisdom nor is said to do so. Wisdom is characterized by intellect and intelligence, the state which is opposite to wisdom by lack of intelligence and by sensation.
32. Since man came into being composed of noetic soul and sentient body, one interpretation could be that the tree of life is the soul’s intellect, which is the seat of wisdom. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil would then be the body’s power of sensation, which is clearly the seat of mindless impulses. Man received the divine commandment not to involve himself actively and experientially with these impulses; but he did not keep the commandment.
33. Both trees in Scripture symbolize the intellect and the senses. Thus the intellect has the power to discriminate between the spiritual and the sensible, between the eternal and the transitory. Or rather, as the soul’s discriminatory power, the intellect persuades the soul to cleave to the first and to transcend the second. The senses have the power to discriminate between pleasure and pain in the body. Or rather, as a power existing in a body endowed with soul and sense-perception, they persuade the body to embrace pleasure and reject pain.
34. If a man exercises only sensory discrimination between pain and pleasure in the body, thus transgressing the divine commandment, he eats from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, that is to say, he succumbs; to the mindless impulses that pertain to the senses; for he possesses only the body’s power of discrimination, which makes him embrace pleasure as something good and avoid pain as something evil. But if he exercises only that noetic discrimination which distinguishes between the eternal and the transitory, and so keeps the divine commandment, he eats from the tree of life, that is to say, from the wisdom that appertains to his intellect; for he exercises only the power of discrimination associated with the soul, which makes him cleave to the glory of what is eternal as something good, and avoid the corruption of what is transitory as something evil.
35. Goodness so far as the intellect is concerned is a dispassionate predilection for the spirit; evil is an impassioned attachment to the senses. Goodness so far as the senses are concerned is the impassioned activity of the body under the stimulus of pleasure; evil is the state destitute of such activity.
36. He who persuades his conscience to regard the evil he is doing as good by nature reaches out with his moral faculty as with a hand and grasps the tree of life in a reprehensible manner; for he thinks that what is thoroughly evil is by nature immortal. Therefore God, who has implanted in man’s conscience a natural hatred of evil, cuts him off from life, for he has now become evil in his will and intention. God acts in this way so that when a man does wrong he cannot persuade his own conscience that what is thoroughly evil is good by nature.
37. The vine produces wine, the wine drunkenness and drunkenness an evil form of ecstasy. Similarly the intelligence - which is the vine - when well-nurtured and cultivated by the virtues, generates spiritual knowledge; and such knowledge produces a good form of ecstasy which enables the intellect to transcend its attachment to the senses.
38. It is the devil’s practice maliciously to confound the forms and shapes of sensible things with our conceptual images of them. Through these forms and shapes are generated passions for the outward aspects of visible things, and our intellectual energy, being halted at the level of what pertains to sense-perception, cannot raise itself to the realm of intelligible realities. In this way the devil despoils the soul and drags it down into the turmoil of the passions.
(St Maximos the Confessor, "Various Texts on Theology, the Divine Economy, and Virtue and Vice, 2nd Century")
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