Translations of 1 John 3:6a - Christians and sin

[Vanellus]

NIV: No one who lives in him keeps on sinning.
NLT: Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin.
ESV: No one who abides in him keeps on sinning;
AV: Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:
NASB: No one who remains in Him sins continually; (italics indicate no actual Greek word for continually in the original Greek)

Greek:
πᾶς ὁ ἐν αὐτῷ μένων οὐχ ἁμαρτάνει
Anyone - in him abiding, not sins

The "abiding" is present participle active nominative masculine singular and "sins" is present indicative active (PIA) third person singular.

There's no "keeps on" or "continues" or "continually" in the original Greek. Maybe it comes from the verb tense (present) or mood (indicative). But there are other PIA verbs in the same chapter e.g. 1 Jn 3:1 - The reason the world does not know us (NIV). No need for an explanatory "keeps on" to be added there!

Of course, earlier in the same letter we read about the need for Christians to confess their sins. So if Christians don't sin why the need to confess sins? From our personal experience we know we sin but are these Bible translators right to give the original text a theological helping hand?

NB: I'm not using this to bang the AV gong. It has its weaknesses as well as its strengths like all translations e.g. 1 John 5:7. So this is not intended as a thread for comparing individual translations but rather how literal should any translation be?

NIV = New International Version
NLT - New Living Translation
ESV = English Standard Version
AV = Authorised Version
NASB = New American Standard Bible

 

[mindfulzen]

Interesting. Did not know that about the greek language. Newbie, so do not know what the abbreviations mean, might be an idea to list what they mean. I understand it is different bibles, so point taken, they differ slightly, but does not really change the point. I cannot pick a winner out of them, good thing you did not put up a poll

 

[HTacianas]

NIV: No one who lives in him keeps on sinning.
NLT: Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin.
ESV: No one who abides in him keeps on sinning;
AV: Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:
NASB: No one who remains in Him sins continually; (italics indicate no actual Greek word for continually in the original Greek)

Greek:
πᾶς ὁ ἐν αὐτῷ μένων οὐχ ἁμαρτάνει
Anyone - in him abiding, not sins

The "abiding" is present participle active nominative masculine singular and "sins" is present indicative active (PIA) third person singular.

There's no "keeps on" or "continues" or "continually" in the original Greek. Maybe it comes from the verb tense (present) or mood (indicative). But there are other PIA verbs in the same chapter e.g. 1 Jn 3:1 - The reason the world does not know us (NIV). No need for an explanatory "keeps on" to be added there!

Of course, earlier in the same letter we read about the need for Christians to confess their sins. So if Christians don't sin why the need to confess sins? From our personal experience we know we sin but are these Bible translators right to give the original text a theological helping hand?

NB: I'm not using this to bang the AV gong. It has its weaknesses as well as its strengths like all translations e.g. 1 John 5:7. So this is not intended as a thread for comparing individual translations but rather how literal should any translation be?

It's in part the reason for the Roman teaching on mortal and venial sin. In short, an unintentional sin is a venial sin, while an intentional sin is a mortal sin. If you look to the old testament sacrifices you see that the sacrifices only atone for unintentional sins or "sins of ignorance". Everyone sins unintentionally but no one who believes in God will sin intentionally.

That is the meaning of it.

 

[TzephanYahu]

Good post @Vanellus, i hope to see more like this.

 

[Vanellus]

It's in part the reason for the Roman teaching on mortal and venial sin. In short, an unintentional sin is a venial sin, while an intentional sin is a mortal sin. If you look to the old testament sacrifices you see that the sacrifices only atone for unintentional sins or "sins of ignorance". Everyone sins unintentionally but no one who believes in God will sin intentionally.

That is the meaning of it.

Where does the Bible refer to "mortal sin" and "venial sin" as such i.e. using the actual words (translated).

 

[HTacianas]

Where does the Bible refer to "mortal sin" and "venial sin" as such i.e. using the actual words (translated).

1Jo 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.

Sin "to death", i.e., deadly, mortal. Generally those things that required the death penalty in the old testament.

 

[Dave L]

The way I understand it is; we have Christ's imputed righteousness. That is God's righteousness that can not sin. But we also have our wood, hay, stubble righteousness that through obedience can provide a better resurrection, as Paul says. But even if we do as David in his heinous sin with Bathsheba, we cannot lose our salvation, but only some of our wood, hay, stubble reward in the resurrection.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

The RSV reads "No one who abides in him sins". Greek present indicative active tense can mean present tense, as in "I sin", OR continuous action, "I am sinning". So the translators are simply doing their best with something that does not have a true direct equivalent in English.

 

[com7fy8]

Can't "to sin" mean to leave God after becoming born again?

If this were the meaning, it would mean a saved person can not get away from God.

If it were to mean a born-again person can not do any kind of sin, at all, then we have a problem of how Peter sinned by playing the hypocrite > Galatians 2:11-13.

Or, possibly, I suppose John could be interpreted to mean that while we are being born . . . born along in God's leading . . . guided by and in submission to God . . . we can not sin because we are doing what God has us doing in His love. But as soon as we take anything into our own hands . . . oh-oh.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Can't "to sin" mean to leave God after becoming born again?

If this were the meaning, it would mean a saved person can not get away from God.

If it were to mean a born-again person can not do any kind of sin, at all, then we have a problem of how Peter sinned by playing the hypocrite > Galatians 2:11-13.

Or, possibly, I suppose John could be interpreted to mean that while we are being born . . . born along in God's leading . . . guided by and in submission to God . . . we can not sin because we are doing what God has us doing in His love. But as soon as we take anything into our own hands . . . oh-oh.

John says "sin is lawlessness" so your definition is incorrect. Also this passage is from 1 John, not the Gospel of John, so there is nothing about being born again here.

The entire passage reads (RSV):

4 Every one who commits sin is guilty of lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him sins; no one who sins has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who does right is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 He who commits sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God commits sin; for God’s nature abides in him, and he cannot sin because he is born of God. 10 By this it may be seen who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not do right is not of God, nor he who does not love his brother.

 

[hedrick]

The Bible isn't written in symbolic logic. It uses human language, and it uses it flexibly. The message of 1 John is that Christians don't sin, but when they do they can be forgiven. This is not a contradiction. It's just that the first half isn't meant completely literally. I don't think the answer is details of Greek grammar, but a certain fuzziness in how we use language.

 

[EmethAlethia]

1Jn 3:4 Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. 7 Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

Do you know why this is a fact? This is the way things are designed. If you are His, habitual practice of sin is an impossibility as it goes contrary to the very nature of God as our Father. If you are His, then He will step in and reprove you directly. If you do not see this reproof and can practice sinful behavior without consequences God says you are a "bastard" you aren't His contrary to your beliefs.

Heb 12:4 You have not yet resisted to the point of shedding blood in your striving against sin; 5 and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as sons, "MY SON, DO NOT REGARD LIGHTLY THE DISCIPLINE OF THE LORD, NOR FAINT WHEN YOU ARE REPROVED BY HIM; 6 FOR THOSE WHOM THE LORD LOVES HE DISCIPLINES, AND HE SCOURGES EVERY SON WHOM HE RECEIVES." 7 It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 8 But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live? 10 For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but He disciplines us for our good, so that we may share His holiness. 11 All discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet to those who have been trained by it, afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness. 12 Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the knees that are feeble, 13 and make straight paths for your feet, so that the limb which is lame may not be put out of joint, but rather be healed.

Notice verse 13. The consequences for looking your Father in the eye and giving Him the finger can be very severe. But what are these disciplines from God, what do they look like? why do we get them if we are true Christians and choose to habitually disobey? Paul tells us ...

1Co 11:27 Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. 28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.

The consequences are listed in verse 30. Sickness, weakness and "sleep", often used of physical death while the soul is saved. But how can God "kill" His own kids? Doesn't He love them? The answer is, of course, yes. He loves the whole world. BUT, the options are, give them their consequences NOW, while they are alive, or judge them with the rest of the world, with eternal consequences ... So, if you misbehave enough, put His other kids at risk, or embarrass Him too much and He takes you home ... to heaven. Not much of a punishment, per say, but your life is over and your ability to serve Him on this planet ends as well. For an example of how this might play out let's go to 1Co. 5.

1Co 5:1 It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. 2 You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst. 3 For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. 6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough? 7 Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For Christ our Passover also has been sacrificed. 8 Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; 10 I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.

We have the command to, "While it is still today" go to any brother or sister we believe is sinning and reprove them with all doctrine and longsuffering looking to ourselves so we don't fall short, with the goal of restoring our brethren. If that fails we gather 1-2 others strong in the world, not telling them a thing about the situation other than you are in the second step of reproof (Any sharing of details is gossip) and let them bear witness of the "Doctrine and longsuffering" as you share yet again. You may find that those strong in the word disagree with you and that there is no sin to reprove... or what you have stated may be established. If you have won your brother, or is there was no sin in the first place all is restored. Otherwise you tell the entire church and have them all go with doctrine and longsuffering to try and win the brother or sister. If they repent, great. If not, then the steps above are to be taken. Paul even warned other churches of other brethren who fell short when they were removed from his local fellowship.

At that point, you have said, God, we have done all we can do. We deliver the man/woman into your hands to do what is best. And stop praying for them. Why? You are commanded to stop praying for them. Here's a related passage. Remember from 1Co. 11, the ways God disciplines people? Sickness, weakness ... sleep ...

1Jn 5:16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin not leading to death.

At this point it's a no-prayer zone, other than, "God, your will be done in this person's life." Do not pray for his conversion, his repentance, ... because frankly God might keep them here striving even more with them while the destruction the non-repentant Christian is doing gets worse and worse damaging all around them. Give God the free hand. Let Him decide without your prayers interfering with His will. Yes He listens. But this is not the time to get in the way of a Father's reproof of His child.

 

[Vanellus]

1Jo 5:16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.

Sin "to death", i.e., deadly, mortal. Generally those things that required the death penalty in the old testament.

That's a rather odd interpretation of "leading to death" (and wouldn't it be NT rather than OT since the letter was written in the NT period?). Doesn't this interpretation lead to relativism since what leads to the death penalty changes both in time and space? Surely this letter's teaching is universal.

An earlier passage like
We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death.
is clearly talking about spiritual death not physical death, since John's letter is addressed to physically alive people.

 

[Vanellus]

The Bible isn't written in symbolic logic. It uses human language, and it uses it flexibly. The message of 1 John is that Christians don't sin, but when they do they can be forgiven. This is not a contradiction. It's just that the first half isn't meant completely literally. I don't think the answer is details of Greek grammar, but a certain fuzziness in how we use language.

Note that in the OP I was talking about the translation rather than the theology. For the translation I think "details of Greek grammar" are important, and I think Bible translators would agree.

 

[Vanellus]

The RSV reads "No one who abides in him sins". Greek present indicative active tense can mean present tense, as in "I sin", OR continuous action, "I am sinning". So the translators are simply doing their best with something that does not have a true direct equivalent in English.

Though, as I indicated, there are other PIA verbs in this epistle where the translators didn't add "keeping on" etc yet they seem to be continuous actions as well.

 

[HTacianas]

That's a rather odd interpretation of "leading to death" (and wouldn't it be NT rather than OT since the letter was written in the NT period?). Doesn't this interpretation lead to relativism since what leads to the death penalty changes both in time and space? Surely this letter's teaching is universal.

An earlier passage like
We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love each other. Anyone who does not love remains in death.
is clearly talking about spiritual death not physical death, since John's letter is addressed to physically alive people.

That is not an "interpretation". That is what it means. Notice that he does not say "and oh by the way, the sins leading to death are...". They already knew what he meant.

 

[Soyeong]

NIV: No one who lives in him keeps on sinning.
NLT: Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin.
ESV: No one who abides in him keeps on sinning;
AV: Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:
NASB: No one who remains in Him sins continually; (italics indicate no actual Greek word for continually in the original Greek)

Greek:
πᾶς ὁ ἐν αὐτῷ μένων οὐχ ἁμαρτάνει
Anyone - in him abiding, not sins

The "abiding" is present participle active nominative masculine singular and "sins" is present indicative active (PIA) third person singular.

There's no "keeps on" or "continues" or "continually" in the original Greek. Maybe it comes from the verb tense (present) or mood (indicative). But there are other PIA verbs in the same chapter e.g. 1 Jn 3:1 - The reason the world does not know us (NIV). No need for an explanatory "keeps on" to be added there!

Of course, earlier in the same letter we read about the need for Christians to confess their sins. So if Christians don't sin why the need to confess sins? From our personal experience we know we sin but are these Bible translators right to give the original text a theological helping hand?

NB: I'm not using this to bang the AV gong. It has its weaknesses as well as its strengths like all translations e.g. 1 John 5:7. So this is not intended as a thread for comparing individual translations but rather how literal should any translation be?

NIV = New International Version
NLT - New Living Translation
ESV = English Standard Version
AV = Authorised Version
NASB = New American Standard Bible

In 1 John, 1:8-10, if we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us, if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness, and if we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar and the truth is not in us. In 1 John 2:4-6, whoever says that they known him, but does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected, by this we may know that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked. So in order for the truth to be in us, we need to both recognize that we have sinned and we need to practice obedience to God's commandment, and 1 John 3:4-6 needs to understood in light of this, though it could also be recognized that we are not abiding in him during the times when we do commit sin, or that if we do what we do not want, then it is no longer us who do it, but sin that dwells within us (Romans 7:20).

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Though, as I indicated, there are other PIA verbs in this epistle where the translators didn't add "keeping on" etc yet they seem to be continuous actions as well.

PIA can be both present and present continuous. There is an entire chapter on PIA in Mounce's Biblical Greek, which is where I took the example.

 

[hedrick]

Note that in the OP I was talking about the translation rather than the theology. For the translation I think "details of Greek grammar" are important, and I think Bible translators would agree.

As far as I can tell, “keeps on sinning” is an attempt to resolve the apparent contradiction using the grammar.

 

[Davy]

NIV: No one who lives in him keeps on sinning.
NLT: Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin.
ESV: No one who abides in him keeps on sinning;
AV: Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:
NASB: No one who remains in Him sins continually; (italics indicate no actual Greek word for continually in the original Greek)

Greek:
πᾶς ὁ ἐν αὐτῷ μένων οὐχ ἁμαρτάνει
Anyone - in him abiding, not sins

The "abiding" is present participle active nominative masculine singular and "sins" is present indicative active (PIA) third person singular.

There's no "keeps on" or "continues" or "continually" in the original Greek. Maybe it comes from the verb tense (present) or mood (indicative). But there are other PIA verbs in the same chapter e.g. 1 Jn 3:1 - The reason the world does not know us (NIV). No need for an explanatory "keeps on" to be added there!

Of course, earlier in the same letter we read about the need for Christians to confess their sins. So if Christians don't sin why the need to confess sins? From our personal experience we know we sin but are these Bible translators right to give the original text a theological helping hand?

NB: I'm not using this to bang the AV gong. It has its weaknesses as well as its strengths like all translations e.g. 1 John 5:7. So this is not intended as a thread for comparing individual translations but rather how literal should any translation be?

NIV = New International Version
NLT - New Living Translation
ESV = English Standard Version
AV = Authorised Version
NASB = New American Standard Bible

Well, when one tries to isolate... an idea in Scripture, without getting two or more Scripture witnesses like we are supposed to do to confirm every word, then that's what happens, i.e., LEGALISM and the higher critics of The Bible.

We are all sinners until the day we die. It is because we all... were concluded by the Scriptures under sin so that the Promise by Faith would be to those who believe on Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:22). We all fall short of the glory of God per Apostle Paul.

The 1 John 1 Chapter is particularly about what do we do if... we mess up and still do a sin. We are to repent to Jesus and ask Him to forgive us. Even the prayer He taught us to pray in Luke 11 says to ask forgiveness of our sins.

So by being 'perfect' in The LORD, it means striving... to be perfect, not that we could ever be without sin like Lord Jesus when He was here in the flesh.

Doesn't matter who, I can follow anyone around for a few days, and I'll find a sin they did, however small.