"transgender" 4 year old / Has the world gone mad?

[John3verse20]

Just read the news about a 4 year old BOY who insists on dressing like a girl and using the girls' bathroom. Have schools/parents gone insane in condoning/encouraging this?

If a teen has gender identity issues I'm extremely sympathetic. But a 4 year old? I strongly suspect parental involvement, I'm talking about the mother of triplet boys that was in the news (unable to post a link, sorry.)

Isn't this the age to 1) teach children to accept who they are and not try to pretend someone they're not and 2) teach them that there is appropriate behavior and dress codes. When I went to school we had to wear uniforms; other schools at least have (or used to have) dress codes, i.e offensive messages on tshirts, skimpy clothes, clothes that are too casual, pajamas, swimsuits are not suitable attire, and if you want to express yourself through your clothes you can do so outside of school. I wear a suit and tie at work because it's expected, not because I enjoy it. Can't little kids be taught the same?

 

[football5680]

Some kids have bad parents.

 

[elephunky]

If you understood the issue of being transgender then you would understand that allowing a child to do this would be allowing them to be themselves. I suggest you do your research.

 

[Redac]

Isn't this the age to 1) teach children to accept who they are and not try to pretend someone they're not and

And if you insist on having this boy forced to conform to some standard that is other than what he identifies with, you are making him pretend he is someone that he is not.

2) teach them that there is appropriate behavior and dress codes.

Wearing female clothing at 4 years old is hardly the same as high school girls wearing a top that you would deem inappropriate, just as an example.

 

[GenetoJean]

Hey, I admit a 4 year old might very well change their mind about swearing they are the opposite gender than the way they are born. However they may not. Letting them dress the way they need to to be happy wont hurt anything. I am not saying not to try to talk to them and make sure but if they continue to insist then I think they should be allowed.

 

[peaceful soul]

If you understood the issue of being transgender then you would understand that allowing a child to do this would be allowing them to be themselves. I suggest you do your research.

Exactly what does 'allowing them to be themselves' really mean?

I do believe that the parents are the main problem in this child's acting out this idea.

 

[elephunky]

Exactly what does 'allowing them to be themselves' really mean?

What do you think it means?

 

[xDenax]

If a teen has gender identity issues I'm extremely sympathetic. But a 4 year old?

Based on another discussion I've seen and links I believe Coy is six years old. Not a big difference but still, I like to be accurate.

Isn't this the age to 1) teach children to accept who they are and not try to pretend someone they're not

That is what they are trying to do. Gender issues are complicated and not at all black and white.

2) teach them that there is appropriate behavior and dress codes. When I went to school we had to wear uniforms; other schools at least have (or used to have) dress codes, i.e offensive messages on tshirts, skimpy clothes, clothes that are too casual, pajamas, swimsuits are not suitable attire, and if you want to express yourself through your clothes you can do so outside of school.

Coy wearing a dress is not an issue. Should not be an issue. It's a piece of fabric on a six year old. The issues arises with which restroom the child uses.

I wear a suit and tie at work because it's expected, not because I enjoy it. Can't little kids be taught the same?

You wear a suit and tie because you have a job that requires it. There are other men in the world who wouldn't do that job and wouldn't wear a suit and tie. It is not the life they want. They will not pretend to be who they are not. We all make choices. It doesn't always mean one of us is right and the other is wrong.

 

[awitch]

I don't think any of us are in a position to judge the child or her parents.

Here is a FAQ about transgender people, identify, and expression from the American Psychological Association. And according to the American Psychiatric Association, gender identity disorder has been removed from the DSM (meaning it's no longer considered a mental disorder).

I don't see what the big deal is.

 

[John3verse20]

Thanks for the thoughtful comments on a topic that causes strong emotions, especially on those who have personal experience with this.

@football5680: Agreed, and I strongly suspect that the child's mother may have strongly wanted a girl.

dgirl1986: It takes time for people to figure out who they are, and I seriously doubt that anyone knows at age 6. Teenagers are typically still trying to figure this out, and even adults do so (I'll take a wild guess that based on the 1986 in your screen name that's the year you were born) so you probably known from personal experience and observing others that even at age 25 there are still things you're figuring out about yourself.
And as far as "being" yourself, there is the reality that even though someone may want to be of the opposite sex, or feel that they are, there is the fact of chromosomes and genitalia. All the surgery in the world won't make you something you're ultimately not, and not too many people are fooled into believing that a biological male is female or vice versa. I sure feel for someone in this situation, but there is the reality that some things you cannot change.
If Coy (or anyone else) wants to play with dolls (pretending he's the father, not the mother) or wear a pink tee shirt or cook, sew or take ballet classes I don't see any of this as jeopardizing his masculinity (or his boyishness, since masculinity seems to be the wrong word when referring to a child that age.) But I think that the insistence to be addrssed as "she" or to use the girls' bathroom involves living outside the realm of reality.

@xDenax: You talk about people pretending to be what they're not. But walking into the girls' bathroom doesn't make him a girl, which is what he's trying to pretend he is. And I think it goes beyond pretending to himself; he wants the whole world to play along. And it's not going to happen.

@awitch: What goes into and out of the DSM is politically motivated and subject to pressure that has often little to do with scientific basis (as the inclusion or removal of homosexuality as a mental disorder.) So I wouldn't draw too many conclusions (one way or another) about waht the DSM says.

 

[Zoness]

@awitch: What goes into and out of the DSM is politically motivated and subject to pressure that has often little to do with scientific basis (as the inclusion or removal of homosexuality as a mental disorder.) So I wouldn't draw too many conclusions (one way or another) about waht the DSM says.

To me that sounds more like flipping over the chess board because you are losing the game, so to speak. I've never heard someone remark that the DSM a political tool unless they disagreed with it on a moral, religious grounding.

 

[Strathos]

Aren't transgender people born with brains that are physically closer to those of the opposite sex?

 

[GenetoJean]

Aren't transgender people born with brains that are physically closer to those of the opposite sex?

Some research indicates that.

 

[awitch]

@football5680: Agreed, and I strongly suspect that the child's mother may have strongly wanted a girl.

I strongly suspect the fact that transgenderness, being a legitimate, natural variation, clashes with some peoples' personally chosen faith-based world view that it's easier to blame someone they don't know and will never meet than it is to reconcile with reality. They escape having to think about it and retreat to the comfort of their faith while blaming the outcast.

 

[gord44]

I strongly suspect the fact that transgenderness, being a legitimate, natural variation, clashes with some peoples' personally chosen faith-based world view that it's easier to blame someone they don't know and will never meet than it is to reconcile with reality. They escape having to think about it and retreat to the comfort of their faith while blaming the outcast.

Agreed.

 

[muichimotsu]

I may be nitpicking, but I think many psychologists would distinguish between gender and sex here. Sexuality isn't even on the radar of this discussion, but gender identity is, at least to an extent. If a child enjoys activities that aren't aligned with their cisgendered sex (e.g. males doing masculine things), this is a transgender issue, not a transexual issue. I think it'd be a matter of explaining to the child and the parents that merely identifying with gendered behavior is not the same thing as thinking you are the opposite sex, or even androgynous. Parents raising their child like this doesn't necessarily grant privileges of this nature, though the child being free to behave in this transgendered fashion is fine.

 

[John3verse20]

... If a child enjoys activities that aren't aligned with their cisgendered sex (e.g. males doing masculine things), this is a transgender issue, not a transexual issue...

Excellent point. I would say that much, possibly most of what society considers appropriate interests and behavior for men and women is arbitrary and not based on any logic.

 

[contango]

If you understood the issue of being transgender then you would understand that allowing a child to do this would be allowing them to be themselves. I suggest you do your research.

I knew a few boys when I was in my pre-teens who wanted to be girls. One even insisted that he was a girl and that his given name (Andrew) was just a cover for his real name of Andrea.

Back in those days there was no concept of entertaining such thoughts, and people soon grew out of it.

I don't doubt there are a few genuine cases where people have odd chromosomal combinations (I understand that instead of the nice easy XX and XY we come to expect every once in a while someone ends up with XXY, XXXY or XYY) but I can't help thinking in many if not most cases it's just another excuse that people use to demand special attention.

 

[muichimotsu]

If you have extra Y and X chromosomes, your gender identity is the least of your concerns, since in many cases, there are abnormalities in growth, not to mention sterility or infertility respectively.

To allege that this is a phase is to be too easily dismissive of something merely because it threatens your comfortable perspective on the world. I'm not suggesting this be forced on you, but a little shake up to the established order isn't going to destroy it entirely.

 

[Harry3142]

According to the OP the boy's behavior includes insisting on using the girl's bathroom. If it were reversed, would those who approve of this boy's actions also approve of a girl's wanting to use the boy's bathroom? If you can't approve of such actions for both sexes, you can't approve of it for either sex.