Traditional Orthodox Sub-Section

St. Tikon · Mar 6, 2004

Brothers & Sisters in Christ:

As most of you know, I have only been on this forum for a short time, but I have made some observations.

1. As we know, Coptic Orthodox and possibly other Non-Chalcedonians are sharing this forum with us here. By my observation, and simply my humble opinion, this relationship is not always friendly or successful. I know that I have been spending much of my time defending the "Strict" or "Conservative" if you will, viewpoint concerning our church, both to those who say they are mainstream Orthodox, or to Copts, or whomever. This is not enjoyable to me.
I am dedicated to our faith, and would much rather spend my time discussing things which are edifying, rather than defending subjects that most Orthodox are expected to accept without question or debate.

2. In view of this, I have requested that Erwin, who is owner of this forum, create a sub-section for those of us who wish to follow the traditional and conservative path of our faith without being harassed, etc.

3. I have requested that if this request is granted, that the litmus test for posting in the new section is that the Original 7 Ecumenical Councils of the Church be accepted, as a condition of posting. Those that refuse or do not wish to meet such a requirement could continue to post in the now existing area.

He requested that I put this up for discussion or feedback from ALL parties involved, including our Coptic posters. Consider the floor OPEN!

I would request that ALL discussion of this matter remain Christian and civil at all times.

Thanks!

Tikon+

MariaRegina · Mar 6, 2004

Dear Tikon:

Have you noticed the number of permanent threads we have?

New subforum just for the Orthodox Christians

We now have plenty of Orthodox Christians and permanent threads in this forum to justify our own subforum.

I was hoping to have a new subforum dedicated as the St. Athanasius Chapel and Library where we can have prayer intentions for the living and for the dead as well as readings from the Holy Fathers, etc.

New forum for Oriental Orthodox

Perhaps we can create a new forum just for the Oriental Orthodox. This new forum could be moderated by the Orthodox moderators until Oriental Orthodox Christians could become numerous enough to have their own moderators. After all, the Orthodox forum was moderated by Catholics until we had enough moderators to be independent.

St. Tikon · Mar 6, 2004

chanter said:
Dear Tikon:

Have you noticed the number of permanent threads we have?

I was hoping to have a new subforum dedicated as the St. Athanasius Chapel and Library where we can have prayer intentions for the living and for the dead as well as readings from the Holy Fathers, etc.

Perhaps we can create another forum just for the Oriental Orthodox as we now have plenty of Orthodox Christians in this forum to justify our own forum and also a subforum.

This new forum could be moderated by the Orthodox moderators until Oriental Orthodox Christians could become numerous enough to have their own moderators. After all, the Orthodox forum was moderated by Catholics until we had enough moderators to be independent.

That sounds OK to me. However, we need to get feedback from all involved.
About the only thing I personally would like to see is the requirement that all who post MUST accept the 7 Ecumenical Councils without debate, or question. I would like to see that question put to rest. Then maybe I can concentrate on other more pleasant debates or topics

MariaRegina · Mar 6, 2004

St. Tikon said:
That sounds OK to me. However, we need to get feedback from all involved.
About the only thing I personally would like to see is the requirement that all who post MUST accept the 7 Ecumenical Councils without debate, or question. I would like to see that question put to rest. Then maybe I can concentrate on other more pleasant debates or topics

If we split the Oriental Orthodox off into their own new forum, then we can have our own separate forum rules -- and so could they. We still could join them for fellowship posts. However, it would be wise not to debate and criticize each other within our own new separate forums, which is what has sadly been going on lately within the one forum.

It's getting crowded in here lately. Don't you agree?

Hope this helps.

St. Tikon · Mar 6, 2004

chanter said:
If we split the Oriental Orthodox off into their own new forum, then we can have our own separate forum rules -- and so could they. We still could join them for fellowship posts. It woudl be wise not to debate and criticize each other within our own separate forums, which is what has sadly been going on lately within the one forum.

It's getting crowded in here lately. Don't you agree?

Hope this helps.

Yes, it is crowded. And not with those traditional types, by my observation.
Good idea!

MariaRegina · Mar 6, 2004

Would it be possible to have two new subforums?

One for Orthodox-Oriental dialogue (keep it friendly) where we can place all the threads where we have been having ongoing dialogues with the Oriental Orthodox?

The other called St. Athanasius Chapel and Library dedicated to prayer requests for the living and the dead, reference materials, etc.

And then have a separate new forum just for the Oriental Orthodox: Coptic, Armenians, Syrians, etc.

Reader Nilus · Mar 6, 2004

Why not have forums for each of the various jurisdictions, I think one for the non canonnical jurisdictions and one for SCOBA, would be enough. True Orthodox defined by whom, those with pews need not apply, those with clergy without beards need not apply, the list can go on and on! This thread is showing everyone on the Christian Forums how divided the Orthodox are. I am against such things, it is fine the way it is.
Jeff the Finn

nyj · Mar 6, 2004

So who has to sit in the back of the bus?

Matrona · Mar 6, 2004

jeffthefinn said:
Why not have forums for each of the various jurisdictions, I think one for the non canonnical jurisdictions and one for SCOBA, would be enough. True Orthodox defined by whom, those with pews need not apply, those with clergy without beards need not apply, the list can go on and on! This thread is showing everyone on the Christian Forums how divided the Orthodox are. I am against such things, it is fine the way it is.

I am in full agreement here.

Orthodoxy must be as united as possible, everywhere and at all times.

MariaRegina · Mar 6, 2004

nyj said:
So who has to sit in the back of the bus?

Why does anyone have to sit in the back of the bus?

Let's face it: The Coptics, the Armenians, the Assyrians, and the Syrians are all involved in Catholic-Oriental dialogues as well as Orthodox-Oriental dialogues. I think it would be best for these Oriental Orthodox to have their separate forum.

The Orthodox Christians who believe in the 7 Ecumenical Councils should remain in this forum but with two subforums:

The Orthodox-Oriental Dialogue

The Orthodox Chapel and Library of St. Athanasius (unless we want another name)

Bulldog · Mar 6, 2004

Are there enough Coptic/Oriental/Ethiopian Orthododox to have there own forum?

Reader Nilus · Mar 6, 2004

I think those that like to be know as "True Orthodox" should join the protestants, because they are sectarian as they are. The OP dismissed mainstream Orthodox, so the implication is clear, the fundies define Orthodoxy, not the Bishops. If this happens it is indeed a sad day for Christian Forums.
Jeff the Finn

MariaRegina · Mar 6, 2004

Bulldog said:
Are there enough Coptic/Oriental/Ethiopian Orthododox to have there own forum?

Trouble is -- we keep losing the Oriental Orthodox members, or at least they don't hang around very much. What happened to CopticOrthodox?

If they had their own brand new forum maybe they'd stick around. We have to ask the Coptics and others what they want to do.

Frankly, I don't mind having them in this forum. We should ask them. I just feel that they have been taking a beating and why? What good does it do to put them down. They are our brothers in Christ. They have a valid Eucharist. This I firmly believe.

Maximus · Mar 6, 2004

jeffthefinn said:
I think those that like to be know as "True Orthodox" should join the protestants, because they are sectarian as they are. The OP dismissed mainstream Orthodox, so the implication is clear, the fundies define Orthodoxy, not the Bishops. If this happens it is indeed a sad day for Christian Forums.
Jeff the Finn

Asserting with the Fathers that Non-Chalcedonians are not Orthodox does not make one a Fundamentalist crackpot.

What could be more Protestant than the sort of relativism that says "we are all one" regardless of differences in doctrine?

I believe the Non-Chalcedonians should have their own forum separate from the Orthodox.

It is not possible to be Eastern Orthodox and disagree with the findings of the Seven Ecumenical Councils.

Maximus · Mar 6, 2004

Matrona: Orthodoxy must be as united as possible, everywhere and at all times.

The Church is one and cannot be otherwise.

Is Christ divided?

The Non-Chalcedonians are not Orthodox.

Don't blame me for that. Take it up with the ecumenical councils and the Orthodox Fathers, some of whom gave their very lives standing up for the truths disputed by the Non-Chalcedonians.

Orthodox Andrew · Mar 6, 2004

Orthodoxy on this site must show a united front. We must stay with the current set up.

Orthodox Andrew · Mar 6, 2004

Maximus said:
The Church is one and cannot be otherwise.

Is Christ divided?

The Non-Chalcedonians are not Orthodox.

Don't blame me for that. Take it up with the ecumenical councils and the Orthodox Fathers, some of whom gave their very lives standing up for the truths disputed by the Non-Chalcedonians.

You're right. We should not be so inclined to accept heresies as Orthodox. We all too often feel because somebody does something in the Byzantine style, we can call them Orthodox. This is simply not true. With that said, we would look like a divided Church to the unknowing if we had a subforum.

MariaRegina · Mar 6, 2004

Andreas said:
Orthodoxy on this site must show a united front. We must stay with the current set up.

Andreas:

There has been an ongoing debate between certain Orthodox and the Oriental Orthodox. We unfortunately are not united in all matters of the faith. I really feel for the Coptics that they are attacked so much. Perhaps it would be best for them to have their own forum without any interference and without this constant negative dialogue.

Perhaps in this way, we can visit them in their new forum and begin to understand their traditions. Right now, this is not possible.

As much as I want to have unity, it's not happening yet.

Orthodox Andrew · Mar 6, 2004

chanter said:
Andreas:

There has been an ongoing debate between certain Orthodox and the Oriental Orthodox. We unfortunately are not united in all matters of the faith. I really feel for the Coptics that they are attacked so much. Perhaps it would be best for them to have their own forum without any interference and without this constant negative dialogue.

Perhaps in this way, we can visit them in their new forum and begin to understand their traditions. Right now, this is not possible.

As much as I want to have unity, it's not happening yet.

I would be happy if they had their own forum. I just don't want them to have a subforum in TAW. It makes us look like a Church of sects.

Maximus · Mar 6, 2004

Andreas said:
You're right. We should not be so inclined to accept heresies as Orthodox. We all too often feel because somebody does something in the Byzantine style, we can call them Orthodox. This is simply not true. With that said, we would look like a divided Church to the unknowing if we had a subforum.

I understand your perspective, Andreas, but I respectfully disagree.

Is it our purpose to deceive the unknowing by looking like something we aren't, that is, united with the Non-Chalcedonians?

Did the Fathers worry about how things looked when they made the decisions at Nicea I that separated the Orthodox from the Arians?

Did they worry about how things looked at Constantinople when they made the decisions that separated the Orthodox from the so-called "Spirit-fighters?"

Did they worry about appearances when they condemned Nestorianism at Ephesus in 431?

Chalcedon was, like those other three before it, an ecumenical council. The Non-Chalcedonians reject it and the three that followed it: four out of the seven councils.

In so doing, they left the one Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.

Let them have their own forum.

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