Traditional Catholicism is still winning. Yes, only one man was ordained for the...

[Wolseley]

I second that. All of the TLMs that I've attended, at least 65% of the attendees are young men and women with families. There are very few Nonagenarians.

I will third it. Every Tridentine Mass I have ever attended was made up primarily of young families---and the children, by the by, were very quiet, well-behaved and attentive. The idea that Tridentine Latin Masses are only frequented by elderly people in their 80's who never adjusted to life after Vatican II is a myth.

 

[isshinwhat]

Fourth'd. I've been blessed to have attended Tridentine Masses throughout the country, and one interesting thing I have found especially beautiful is the diversity, not only in age, but in culture, as well. Rich, poor, black, white, Hispanic, African, European, English-speaking and non, all celebrating the Lord and Communing with Him, and therefore one another, together. It makes Feast Days a real treat, too! I thank God for the unity of our Catholicity.

 

[Fantine]

I know that there are young families attending TLM's. In NYC, where very elderly people may live in deteriorating rent-controlled housing and other housing might be several thousand a month, there aren't many young families of any size. Even areas that were once slums--Harlem, Bedford-Stuyvesant, Williamsburg, Red Hook--have become gentrified by DINKS (dual income no kid couples).

The few couples that I know who attend TLM's move to states where they can homeschool without any government regulations on what they teach or when they teach it. They move to inexpensive acreages where they can raise chickens and goats and stay as far away from children who aren't homeschooled as possible.

East coast states have too many regulations and too little low cost housing for them.

NYC is not a place where young families throng to attend the TLM. You can't park anywhere....and subway fares for ten would be $40 round trip.

And of course I know that lots of families have attended the TLM. I did till I was 13....probably more times than any of you will ever ?enjoy?

In a small group of similar afficianados, I'm sure it's fine....its exclusivity is what makes it seem holier.

Bring in the toddlers eating cheerios, bored teens, kids trudging down the aisle in their soccer cleats, parents leaving early to get them to the games on time, it would be much, much worse than a regular Mass.

The main advantage you all probably see is that none of these people show up.

 

[Wolseley]

The few couples that I know who attend TLM's move to states where they can homeschool without any government regulations on what they teach or when they teach it. They move to inexpensive acreages where they can raise chickens and goats and stay as far away from children who aren't homeschooled as possible.

From what I've seen of the broad culture on both coasts, I don't blame them. You don't protect your children from disease by planting them in the middle of the epidemic.

NYC is not a place where young families throng to attend the TLM. You can't park anywhere....and subway fares for ten would be $40 round trip.

So you admit that your experience is not typical of the country as a whole?

In a small group of similar afficianados, I'm sure it's fine....its exclusivity is what makes it seem holier.

The preceding few posts have appeared to indicate that attendance at the TLM is neither as small or as exclusive as you wish to believe it to be.

Bring in the toddlers eating cheerios, bored teens, kids trudging down the aisle in their soccer cleats, parents leaving early to get them to the games on time, it would be much, much worse than a regular Mass.

You mean those people who find this world and it's distractions to be more important than preparing their immortal souls for the next one? Yes, I quite agree.

The main advantage you all probably see is that none of these people show up.

Again, I quite agree.

 

[StThomasMore]

What a tragedy it would be, Katherine, if this one newly ordained priest in the Archdiocese of NY decided to confine his ministry to a small group of Catholics dedicated to arcane and esoteric worship forms.

If he's the only one, the 99% need him.

(Of course we know that favoring the 1% is a time-honored conservative belief.)

or you know, some people could be more open to attending a Latin Mass. I would say it is close-mindedness to the TLM if anything.

 

[BabyChristian22]

Ok...Why is Obama green with a broccoli head? Everytime you post I just stare & wonder.

Because it's Broccoli Obama.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

No-one likes broccoli.

 

[EnglishSeminarian]

You mean those people who find this world and it's distractions to be more important than preparing their immortal souls for the next one? Yes, I quite agree.



Again, I quite agree.

I think we all have to be quite careful about making judgments on other people worshiping in our parish setting and seeing peoples' absence as an advantage. The glorification of our own greatness and holiness is not a feature of the Old Rite - is it about our own weakness in the presence of Almighty God.

Looking down on people who are less mature in their spirituality or even simply don't realise the importance of what is they are doing (remember catechism over the past forty years has been a disaster) are not people to look down on or whose presence we should resent because they remind us that we too get distracted from prayer. We should thank God that they still come, pray for them and show them, by our own devout attendance at Mass and by our daily manner with them way life in the Gospel is about.

 

[AMDG]

I think we all have to be quite careful about making judgments on other people worshiping in our parish setting and seeing peoples' absence as an advantage. The glorification of our own greatness and holiness is not a feature of the Old Rite - is it about our own weakness in the presence of Almighty God.

Looking down on people who are less mature in their spirituality or even simply don't realise the importance of what is they are doing (remember catechism over the past forty years has been a disaster) are not people to look down on or whose presence we should resent because they remind us that we too get distracted from prayer. We should thank God that they still come, pray for them and show them, by our own devout attendance at Mass and by our daily manner with them way life in the Gospel is about.

Err--It' not "looking down", it's just stating facts "staring one in the face". Back when I was actively teaching CCD, we CCD teachers would know that there were some parents who thought that Little League or Soccer or "sleeping in late" or the world's entertainment--like camping or so was more important than Sunday obligation. Their children would rarely attend and when they did, they did poorly (following the example of their parents?)

 

[EnglishSeminarian]

And if you do all you can to engage with them and their children God bless you. Seeing a problem and trying to respond to it is not looking down and I didn't write that it was.

Is it better that somebody does not bother to come at all? Is that an advantage in any way? Or is better that somebody comes twice a week so that we are able to help to live out the Christian life more fully. If my experience of the RCIA is anything to go by in terms of what has been taught in first Communion and Confirmation, I think the application of invincible is a strong possibility.

My comment was made in the context of a member of these forum responding to an accusation that certain peoples' absence from Mass would be advantageous. I stand by that comment.

 

[ElisaMC]

Since when has Catholicism become akin to the Superbowl.. "We're WINNING" - is the call of those who seem to believe that the moment Catholics return to TRADITION, we will "WIN"! I, for one, simply destest this attitude - we are ALL Catholics, whether we are enriched by the TLM, or the NO.. Whether our spirits sing with chant or with guitars - we are ALL Catholic. The moment we forget that, we may as well not be Catholic, for we will splinter as have most other Christian faiths. Christ came to save us all.. Whether we speak latin or not.

I find that I embrace the TLM as wonderfully as I do a folk Mass played by some of the youth in our parish - I love them all. I love being with Christ, in the sacrifice of the Mass.. period.

"Love one another" - I don't see "competition" in this statement...

 

[Fantine]

or you know, some people could be more open to attending a Latin Mass. I would say it is close-mindedness to the TLM if anything.

I attended 650 TLM's in my life. Have you?

The ones I remember most fondly were the ones where I sang in the children's choir. I enjoyed the movie "Doubt" so much--it was SO true to life--the nuns with the clickers--the children in the choir loft singing "In FAN NET thy vast domain" just like we did (the word was "infinite.") It was such a cool view, looking at all the old ladies wearing babushkas saying their rosaries, listening to the bells ringing at the consecration so that people who lost their place or got distracted could find it.

We kind of liked the Latin hymns, too. Even though we didn't understand the words. We knew Tantum Ergo talked about antique sacraments. We sort of liked thinking about the spirits in their tu-tus.

At ground level it wasn't anywhere near as interesting as up in the choir loft. I liked the people watching.

 

[isshinwhat]

Why don't you try visiting another TLM and see what's changed?

 

[AMDG]

I attended 650 TLM's in my life. Have you?

You've attended only low Masses (by your own description). If you had even attended *one* High Mass (or even Missa Cantata) you'd be knowing what we're talking about (and why some of us miss it so very badly). The beauty is "other worldly"--it's truly as if "heaven meets earth". The difference is like attending a feast with the food presented on golden plates with linen tableclothes and napkins and attending a barbeque with paper plates, no tablecloth, and paper napkins.

 

[Dylan Michael]

The beauty is "other worldly"--it's truly as if "heaven meets earth". The difference is like attending a feast with the food presented on golden plates with linen tableclothes and napkins and attending a barbeque with paper plates, no tablecloth, and paper napkins.

I second that.
I went to a Missa Canatata last night, and I believe all Catholics should go at least once.

 

[isshinwhat]

In Miami?

 

[Virgil the Roman]

I don't believe that one ought to attend protestantised folk services; there's a reason why we didn't follow Luther and Cramner . . .

Let's stick with the Tridentine Mass/the Traditional Latin Mass; for the Roman rite: it is the how the Mass is and ought to be celebrated. The New Order Service was deliberately made so as to bring it closer to the Calvinist, Lutheran, and Episcopalian services. Let's attend the non-protestantised servie: the Tridentine Mass.

(N.B.: I've been to far too many 'folk'/guitar 'masses' in my lifetime. I didn't leave Protestantism and return to Catholicism, only to re-embrace and return to Protestantism. If that's the case, the Lutheran or Episcopal churches would be were I'd go now rather than the Traditional Latin Mass.)

 

[Dylan Michael]

In Miami?

Actually now I am home from Miami.

 

[MKJ]

Let's stick with the Tridentine Mass/the Traditional Latin Mass; for the Roman rite: it is the how the Mass is and ought to be celebrated. The New Order Service was deliberately made so as to bring it closer to the Calvinist, Lutheran, and Episcopalian services. Let's attend the non-protestantised servie: the Tridentine Mass.

UM, the NO mass is not much like the old Lutheran or Anglican services at all, actually. The modern Anglican, and I think also Lutheran, services were changed to be more like the NO.

I am sorry to say that Anglican scholars were involved in the liturgical theorizing that inspired the NO, but I don't think we can take responsibility for actually producing the NO or the other awful liturgies that mimic it.

 

[MKJ]

I attended 650 TLM's in my life. Have you?

The ones I remember most fondly were the ones where I sang in the children's choir. I enjoyed the movie "Doubt" so much--it was SO true to life--the nuns with the clickers--the children in the choir loft singing "In FAN NET thy vast domain" just like we did (the word was "infinite.") It was such a cool view, looking at all the old ladies wearing babushkas saying their rosaries, listening to the bells ringing at the consecration so that people who lost their place or got distracted could find it.

We kind of liked the Latin hymns, too. Even though we didn't understand the words. We knew Tantum Ergo talked about antique sacraments. We sort of liked thinking about the spirits in their tu-tus.

At ground level it wasn't anywhere near as interesting as up in the choir loft. I liked the people watching.

The bells aren't just for those who have lost their place. They are to emphasize and bring our focus back to the most significant moment in the liturgy. In many cases the outside bells will be rung as well which allows those outside who could not attend to take note as well.

I'm not doubting your experience at all - I know that it was the experience of many, including those who attended high Mass. But I think it is important to realize, for those traditionalists who think simply returning to a pre-NO liturgy would solve so many problems as well as those who have these bad memories of the TLM, there were possibly other serious problems that impacted people's participation in and understanding of that liturgy.