Hello I am a 17 year old guy, and I am currently living in a house with my brother who is 18 years old. Things are tight ,and we just make it by. We are both Christians, but recently my brother has been getting involved into some things that are very frightening to me. My parents live in a different country ,and we are here studying , but recently I looked at my brothers blackberry ,and found pictures of a naked girl which I knew who she was. Just yesterday I also found contraceptive pills, and condoms hidden in the back of our car. I just don't know what to do to either confront him about it , or do something. I am just in a horrible dilemma a very complicated situation for us, for I know if I were to confront him things would change. I really do love my brother I want the best for him, any advice on the matter is very much appreciated.
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Tough Spot
- Thread starter mickyd
- Start date
- Aug 3, 2004
- 14,082
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- Christian
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Don't confront - just ask. But also how come you saw those pictures? If it was not accidentally then you have something to answer for too.
It's his life. You can share your values and thoughts, but you don't cut off your brother because he is choosing different values from you.
John
NZ
It's his life. You can share your values and thoughts, but you don't cut off your brother because he is choosing different values from you.
John
NZ
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ChildOfGod97
Regular Member
He could be just creating that material to punish you for snooping on him.
He's probably finding your dilemma extremely funny.
I would be careful about continuing it, it puts you at a distinct disadvantage with him... and can lead to intense migraines, sleeplessness, nightmares, and severe paranoid delusions.
In worst case scenarios: suicide, accidents, and complete mental collapse into catatonic schizophrenia.
(I got that from the DSM IV.)
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wonderwaleye
Well-Known Member
You need not say anything about what you found at this time, but you do need to discuss GOD'S WORD:
Genesis 2:
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Matthew 19:
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Matthew 19:
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Mark 10:
8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
1Corinthians 6:
16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
Ephesians 5:
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
When a person has sexual intercourse they are then as married as they can get in GOD'S EYE'S.
Sexual intercourse after that with someone else is adultery.
If he should ask why you brought this up, tell him the TRUTH.
steven
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Well, you say that he is a Christian.
In that situation the Scriptures call you to rebuke for his sin that he might come into repentance. This sounds a lot like he is living in sexual immorality.
I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one.
1. Cor. 5:9-11
So Paul here is warning about people who call themselves Christians and yet live in sin. Other Christians should avoid them. I'm not saying that you should immediately cast out your brother but I'd evaluate the situation for a some time to make sure that things are like what they look like. Anyway, having pictures of naked women that is not your spouse is already sin and an issue that should be confronted. It's immorality.
Ultimately your brother is harming his joy in God, because God will not tolerate sin. He won't let people who live in rebellion to experience His blessings in full. Jesus says blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God. You can't be very pure if you keep looking pictures of naked women, lusting their bodies or worse, living in sexual immorality with them.
So if you really love your brother you must confront him that he might repent and regain the joy in Christ.
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Mister_Al
Regular Member
Pray for your brother.
1 John 5:16 (Amplified Bible)
16) If anyone sees his brother [believer] committing a sin that does not [lead to] death (the extinguishing of life), he will pray and [God] will give him life [yes, He will grant life to all those whose sin is not one leading to death]. There is a sin [that leads] to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.
Alan
1 John 5:16 (Amplified Bible)
16) If anyone sees his brother [believer] committing a sin that does not [lead to] death (the extinguishing of life), he will pray and [God] will give him life [yes, He will grant life to all those whose sin is not one leading to death]. There is a sin [that leads] to death; I do not say that one should pray for that.
Alan
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Peripatetic
Restless mind, peaceful soul.
Very good advice. Start up a conversation... share your opinions and be supportive if he is struggling with it. If he does not agree that it is a sin, keep being his brother and remember that God's plan for each person is different. Many strong Christians struggled with sexual immorality at one time or another in their lives. If you act as a good model, he will (even if subconsciously) pick up on your living example.
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wonderwaleye
Well-Known Member
Would you please expand on the above statement so that others might get a UNDERSTANDING how GOD'S plan for each person is different.
steven
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epistemaniac
Senior Member
I would agree with alatir's advice... it is absolutely unbiblical to say that just because 2 people had sex, even for the first time, that they are married in God's eyes... you just will not find evidence of this in the Scriptures, so your brother is involved in serious sexual sin and if you love him, you will confront him... secondly that you ought to confront him is itself a biblical principle... Luke 17:3 (ESV) Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him," Matthew 18:15-17 (NIV) 15 "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.
16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."
Remember that we ARE to make such judgments concerning how others live their lives, and this is particularly true of others claiming to be Christians. And even more specifically, this is the case for sexual sins. Paul had a member of the Corinthian church excommunicated because of his sexual sins, but what I am pointing out in particular in this situation is that you not only may judge, but you need to judge. Paul says, for the person involved in unrepentant sexual sins:
1 Corinthians 5:5, 9-13 (ESV) you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.... 9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”
So you need to confront him, but do so in humility and love, knowing that you are a sinner too. ...
blessings,
ken
16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector."
Remember that we ARE to make such judgments concerning how others live their lives, and this is particularly true of others claiming to be Christians. And even more specifically, this is the case for sexual sins. Paul had a member of the Corinthian church excommunicated because of his sexual sins, but what I am pointing out in particular in this situation is that you not only may judge, but you need to judge. Paul says, for the person involved in unrepentant sexual sins:
1 Corinthians 5:5, 9-13 (ESV) you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.... 9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”
So you need to confront him, but do so in humility and love, knowing that you are a sinner too. ...
blessings,
ken
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ChildOfGod97
Regular Member
Frankly, I see no one mentions this, but you are not necessarily putting together 1 + 1 to equal "2", at all.
It is common for teenage boys to buy condoms and other contraceptives and never use them. You were snooping in his car, invading his privacy to find that stuff.
It is also common for teenage boys to have pictures of naked ladies in various places. One boy might have sent him that picture.
It is common these days for people to send each other naked pictures of each other, apparently, according to a recent poll. But that does not mean they are having sex.
That is your brother's private cell phone, I would imagine, and going through his private messages is an invasion of his privacy. There is a reason why there are laws against such things. And a reason why cults and totalitarian nations do it routinely with their citizens -- and lock them up for imaginary crimes.
I state these things because we are called to be Christians, not Devils. The word "Devil" means "False Accuser". Falsely accusing goes against the core of the teachings of Christ.
'Judge not lest you be judged, and it measured back to you moreso'.
Jesus was the one who explained we are judged by the standards we use for others. Unfortunately, because many people never do good, they do not understand how bitterly the sting of false accusations can hurt.
In Saudi Arabia, your brother would be put up on charges for such things by a criminal court of law.
Even in the US, spying on someone like that is a possible federal offense. Simply sleeping with a woman is not a crime at all. Something you might consider really bad, like stealing a beer from a store, or being drunk in public is hardly even against the law at all. Far from a federal offense. Reading other people's private cell phone communication is.
Still, don't be foolish and not admit what you did. Walking around with evil suspicions about your brother like this would just be torturous on your psyche. Go and tell him what you did.
That you do not tell him shows you are ashamed of your actions. Like how the authorities went to arrest Jesus at night, and Jesus pointed out how it was no irony they would do such a dark deed at the time of darkness.
Above all, though, be careful on how you condemn and judge. Those are very central teachings, I believe, anyway, in the teachings of Jesus. I am constantly astounded at how many people never put those sayings into practice... and yet do all these other things, like praying to idols, and following strange lessons that make no sense and are useless for the soul.
Their only "benefit" is they make the practioner appear more godly to foolish liars who give them praise for their arduous, yet useless "good" deeds and words.
We have a whole lot everyday, all the time, to be concerned with ourselves without really having much time or energy that should be left over to play Sherlock Holmes or "Mr Totalitarian Police of Vice and Virtue from Saudi Arabia".
Life is a lot easier when we do so.
But, of course, I am making various pronouncements and judgments here, though I have found them consistently and with great difficulty to be generally true and important over a very long period of time.
We have every right to make right judgments based on solid evidence. We are called to do so.
But that evidence has to be obtained in good conscience, lawfully, in right ways, using standards we would allow others to use on our own self... and the rule is mercy and "innocent until proven guilty" at all junctures.
It is common for teenage boys to buy condoms and other contraceptives and never use them. You were snooping in his car, invading his privacy to find that stuff.
It is also common for teenage boys to have pictures of naked ladies in various places. One boy might have sent him that picture.
It is common these days for people to send each other naked pictures of each other, apparently, according to a recent poll. But that does not mean they are having sex.
That is your brother's private cell phone, I would imagine, and going through his private messages is an invasion of his privacy. There is a reason why there are laws against such things. And a reason why cults and totalitarian nations do it routinely with their citizens -- and lock them up for imaginary crimes.
I state these things because we are called to be Christians, not Devils. The word "Devil" means "False Accuser". Falsely accusing goes against the core of the teachings of Christ.
'Judge not lest you be judged, and it measured back to you moreso'.
Jesus was the one who explained we are judged by the standards we use for others. Unfortunately, because many people never do good, they do not understand how bitterly the sting of false accusations can hurt.
In Saudi Arabia, your brother would be put up on charges for such things by a criminal court of law.
Even in the US, spying on someone like that is a possible federal offense. Simply sleeping with a woman is not a crime at all. Something you might consider really bad, like stealing a beer from a store, or being drunk in public is hardly even against the law at all. Far from a federal offense. Reading other people's private cell phone communication is.
Still, don't be foolish and not admit what you did. Walking around with evil suspicions about your brother like this would just be torturous on your psyche. Go and tell him what you did.
That you do not tell him shows you are ashamed of your actions. Like how the authorities went to arrest Jesus at night, and Jesus pointed out how it was no irony they would do such a dark deed at the time of darkness.
Above all, though, be careful on how you condemn and judge. Those are very central teachings, I believe, anyway, in the teachings of Jesus. I am constantly astounded at how many people never put those sayings into practice... and yet do all these other things, like praying to idols, and following strange lessons that make no sense and are useless for the soul.
Their only "benefit" is they make the practioner appear more godly to foolish liars who give them praise for their arduous, yet useless "good" deeds and words.
We have a whole lot everyday, all the time, to be concerned with ourselves without really having much time or energy that should be left over to play Sherlock Holmes or "Mr Totalitarian Police of Vice and Virtue from Saudi Arabia".
Life is a lot easier when we do so.
But, of course, I am making various pronouncements and judgments here, though I have found them consistently and with great difficulty to be generally true and important over a very long period of time.
We have every right to make right judgments based on solid evidence. We are called to do so.
But that evidence has to be obtained in good conscience, lawfully, in right ways, using standards we would allow others to use on our own self... and the rule is mercy and "innocent until proven guilty" at all junctures.
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Peripatetic
Restless mind, peaceful soul.
What I meant was that God's plan for the sanctification of each person is different. The means of our Justification is the same, and our ultimate destination is presumably the same (though scripture tells us that people will have different experiences and responsibilities in Heaven).
But the life of each Christian has some period of time before "the renewing of their mind", and a period of time during, for this Sanctification process takes the remainder of our whole lives.
I was advising the original poster that we cannot presume to know the point at which each person will make that switch. Some may live the life of the prodigal son, while others the loyal son, but God accepts both with open arms. If his brother does chose to live a life of sin for a while, mickyd should not beat himself up and accept blame. It just may not be the right time yet... I'm sure there were many people skeptical about the salvation of the man next to Jesus on the cross (who is with Him in Heaven today).
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I thank you all for these supportive messages, they really have allowed me to see different options I have to deal with this. The most important thing I have done is pray, but I have decided just to go ahead and put it into my parents hands for I just don't feel strong enough to deal with this right now. They are older ,and have more experience I know this probably will cause me and my brothers relationship to probably be stressed or even end ,but I mean at least I can say I did something than rather sitting and watching him fall.
Thank you so much for all this encouragement and advice I just got done reading them all.
Thank you so much for all this encouragement and advice I just got done reading them all.
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wonderwaleye
Well-Known Member
I am sorry you missed this verse in my post. Sometimes my posts are so long that folks don't always grasp the meaning from GOD'S WORD:
1Corinthians 6:
16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
In man's law marriage is not complete or legally binding until it is consummated by having sexual intercourse. ( this most likely came from our CHRISTIAN FAITH )
Now it's not uncommon for folks to get all upset because of their actions of the past, but that has no bearing with GOD'S WORD. If you have comitted this sin you need to lay it at the feet of JESUS and ask for forgiveness. Adultery is a very serious sin.
steven
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