Tough Question

[Malakar]

I have been a Christian for about 12 years now. I am a leader as a Christian pretty much wherever I go and I do love the Lord. But I have always wondered why God makes us love him. Why does a loving God who created us -- we did not ask to be created -- try to make us love him, and if we do not, he sends us to Hell?If someone doesn't love me that's ok. I don't care all that much. Even if I did something great for that person, I don't feel it necessary to try to kill them because they don't love me. I want to know God's thoughts. I understand why there's pain in the world. I understand why their's death. I can understand many things but I do not understand that.

 

[Biarien]

In my opinion, we should love God because He first loved us. However, we have the choice to turn away from God. If we do, IMO, we are not sent to a place of eternal torture (the Danté-ish version of Hell) but rather, we simply cease to exist*. God cannot make us love Him, for then it is no longer love. But in Heaven, to be perfect, we must love God. That leaves only two options for us: love God and receive eternal life with Him, or reject God and die.

I feel like that's a very jumbled answer, so if it's unclear, tell me what you don't understand (or disagree with) and I'll try to clarify.

*Please don't let this sidetrack the thread...if you'd like to start a thread on hell, by all means do so, PM me, and I'll respond there.

 

[Mr.Cheese]

He doesn't try to make us love him. The better way to look at it is to consider the effort he has taken to try to save us from hell. Our condition is the result of our own free choice, not punishment for not loving God.
He doens't try to make us love him. He demonstrates how much he loves us by means of the cross.

 

[daveleau]

I have been a Christian for about 12 years now. I am a leader as a Christian pretty much wherever I go and I do love the Lord. But I have always wondered why God makes us love him. Why does a loving God who created us -- we did not ask to be created -- try to make us love him, and if we do not, he sends us to Hell?If someone doesn't love me that's ok. I don't care all that much. Even if I did something great for that person, I don't feel it necessary to try to kill them because they don't love me. I want to know God's thoughts. I understand why there's pain in the world. I understand why their's death. I can understand many things but I do not understand that.

Try to think of it in a parent/ child context. If a child does what the father asks, he is rewarded. If not, he is punished.

Also, God created us to be a companion. When we sinned, we took that away from Him. If we had not, there would be no need for a hell. We send ourselves to hell, not the other way around. Just as if you bought an item and it did not serve the purpose you intended, you would get rid of it. Same with a pet- If a pet was not loving, it made huge messes and bit you and your friends, you's probably get rid of it.

 

[Malakar]

But if you buy a pet you are doing that for a purpose, it is a mistake to have even bought the pet. I don't think God considers us a mistake. And if you are a truly loving master shouldn't you take care of a pet whether it loves you or not?

Thank you all for your input. I appreciate it, eventhough I'd like to know why Breanian believes that there is no Hell.

 

[daveleau]

I don't understadn you first sentence. I apologize. Could you elaborate?

God gives us everything. It is us who denies Him and chooses hell over His Grace and blessing, though. We are not a mistake. He never wanted a companion that was bound to Him without free will. It is our freedom to do whatever we want that shows His love for us.

 

[Lay down all]

i say similar to daveleau.

If you love your child and offer them all your love, want what's best for them, but if they hate you and want to go their own way and disobey you, then how can they have the love you offer them, they chose not to have what you offer them but chose things you've warned them against out of love.
They chose their own destruction, you constantly warn them against that out of your love for them.
God offers us the greatest love, the greatest treasure a man can have, He offers all, He doesn't take away His hand, it's more we refuse it.

 

[Malakar]

Well it is one thing to obeyt God's commands it is another to love God. If I obey God out of fear rather than love do I still go to Heaven?

 

[HomeBound]

Malakar, why would you (who claims to know about God) post such a thing.

Where in the Bible does it say that if we don't love Him, we go to Hell?

A leader as a Christian???

 

[Lay down all]

Pro 1:7 The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.

I think it's good to fear God, i think it shows respect and helps us.
Not out of God being a bully, but out of Him being God the supreme being, the Creator, i think He deserves our respect and i think Godly fear is a good thing and helps you grow in His Word.
For if you have no fear of God then have you any respect.
For you may fear man on earth and fear not God then what does that make God to you, do you place Him lower than man.
With Godly fear comes the knowledge of love, that's what God teaches us.
But if we have no respect for the Teacher who offers us all, then can we be taught if we regard His Word as equal to mans or not that important that it can save the soul.

 

[Malakar]

Malakar, why would you (who claims to know about God) post such a thing.

Where in the Bible does it say that if we don't love Him, we go to Hell?

A leader as a Christian???

Think about it. All you have to say is 'I don't believe Christ died for me.'

 

[HomeBound]

Think about it. All you have to say is 'I don't believe Christ died for me.'

Do I have to re-post my question?

 

[Malakar]

HGere since I can't put it in better words, here is something I found from an Athiest writer.

God's egoistic tendencies are something that I find quite absurd. I'm not clear why such a conception of an all-powerful being would be so full of itself and have such strong desire to be praised, worshipped, and feared by relatively insignificant and pathetic human creatures from a tiny blue dot in the outter edge of this little galaxy. It just doesn't make sense to me, and I smell a rat here. It seems implausible, and sounds fabricated to me, so much so that I have a hard time anyone could fall for it.

I, for example, don't have any desire for people to praise or worship me, I never did, and I don't think I ever will. I consider myself to be above such petty egosim. There are people however who aren't above it. We see them out there, they are people like stars and politicians, not exactly what you would call "god like". In fact, I would go so far as to say that the desire to be praised and adored is actually the result of poor self-esteem at best, or that it stems from pure selfish desire for power over others (not something I regard as a very admirable quality in a person).

Many politicians and corporate CEO's have that sort of hunger for power over others, just as the gods do, it makes them feel like big important men or whatever. Not coincidentily, the males of other species of primates, and even non-primates, show this same character trait. Being domininant and in control, for the males of many species, means that those males are more likely to mate and get their genes into the next generation of course, so this desire for power over others isn't something that's unique to humans, not by a long shot. So it's absolutely no suprise as to why human males would show this desire for power over others. But why would a god show such tendencies? Shouldn't a god be above such egoistic desires? I would think that it would be.

Think about it for a moment, don't just skim what I'm saying, looking for something to latch onto and disagree with. If there were a god, one with the ability to spawn universes and forge life, it *knows* it's god, its got to be secure in its own power and godliness (there is nothing greater than itself), so what sort of gradification could such a powerful being derive from the coerced devotion and admiration of us little humans on this relatively insignificant rock floating around this insignificant little star? And why would it feel the need to create humans in the first place just so they can glorify its ego? Could a "god" really show such human-like pettiness and egoism? I find that extremely hard to believe.

I want you to understand that I have made an agreement with God. I will serv and love him no matter what. These are just problems I deal with.

 

[Lay down all]

God is not a man that He has human emotions and insecurities.
Why judge and compare God to feeble man, if God wants us to love and worship Him then it's for a good reason for He is wiser than all, He made it possible for men to have wisdom, but no man posseses the wisdom of God as He does.
We love Him for our own good, His love is great and His wisdom is too great to be comprehended.
We benefit out of loving God, we benefit from His love, we only take of Him, we give Him nothing that He desires it of us, for He gave us all, and created our existence.
What can we give Him that He hasn't already given us, all things were created by His hand, He owns all, how can we give Him anything that He would desire it of us.
He may want us to love Him for our benefit, for what does it benefit Him, what can we give Him.
Maybe the only thing God wants is to give us all, He offers us to reside next to Him in His Kingdom, He offers us more than this world, He offers us so much that we've never even experienced.
Why put God down to mans emotions, He is God there is none greater, He has not our weaknesses, He is far above and greater than we can imagine.

 

[HomeBound]

AGAIN
Where in the Bible does it say that if we don't love Him, we go to Hell?

It is pretty much assured that when we get to know him, we will love him. How do we get to know him?... by reading the Word he sent. Some of us don't love him, because we don't know him.

But He in no way tells us to love him or perish in Hell. I really want to know, if you could please tell me, where do you get that idea?

 

[HomeBound]

IN QUOTE FROM POST 13
God's egoistic tendencies are something that I find quite absurd. I'm not clear why such a conception of an all-powerful being would be so full of itself and have such strong desire to be praised, worshipped, and feared by relatively insignificant and pathetic .............. blah blah blah .

This is just garbage, from someone who doesn't know who God is, nor does he/she care to know God.

Malakar, there are many stumbling blocks set up out there from atheists. You would do well to just ignor them.

 

[HomeBound]

A short simple answer, (being that your concern seems to be a bit deeper than what I am answering)

If we don't Love God, and we die, and are face to face with Him (Judge) The Love that penetrates through our soul from Him, will be enough to put us in a self condemnation (when we realize he was worthy of our Love all along) to the point where we won't want to be face to face with him. This self condemnation will possibly cause us to want darkness instead of the overwhelming guilt.

 

[Malakar]

This is just garbage, from someone who doesn't know who God is, nor does he/she care to know God.

Malakar, there are many stumbling blocks set up out there from atheists. You would do well to just ignor them.

No I have made a strong point to never ignore peoples arguements. Ultimately I've come to the realization that I will follow God no matter what people say, and I will follow him even when I don't understand his ways. But we shouldn't ignore an argument like that, because people who make this kind of argument will only be confirmed that Christians are closed minded.

I do believe that God's foolishness is wiser than our wisdom and God's weakness is stronger than our strength, so we won't understand the reasons for the things he does until we go to Heaven.

 

[Lay down all]

I do beleive in hell, but not in the physical sense for our bodies die, i think the love in us is what we inherit, so if we still love the physical world and have rejected God in the physical life then maybe we reject Him in the spiritual life also.
For our soul was in darkness in life, it's only the physical world that kept it alive, so when the physical world is no more, what have we to live by, we stilll have all the lusts and negative emotions of the world, but we have not the world to live them by, they kept us from God in life using the physical world, but when the physical world no longer exists maybe we stilll have all these emotions keeping us from God, maybe we stilll have alll worldly lusts but have not the physical body to attempt to scratch the itch.

we have burning emotions that lived in us still present, but we have not the physical being to live the lusts, but the lust maybe just burns forever for we never found release from it.
We lived life in the dark and by it's lusts, so maybe we live all eternity of our choosing of life.

Malakar, maybe you should ignore peoples arguments when they speak against God.
Maybe you should grow yourself first and seek advice from your bretheren and the Word of God, not from the world.
Build yourself up first in His Word so you see the world for the foolishness it is.
Not all Christians are close minded when they disagree with the world, it's their eyes are opened to the foolishness of the world.

See the foolishness of the world for what it is, they have no wisdom, they live wise in their own foolishness, they can't see out of their lives to life that exists through Christ.
We once lived there in it and know it's foolishness and rewards, we know of a greater life, we know we once lived in darkness along with them.
They'll question all, not looking for the answers but looking to disprove the Truth that convicts their lives.
For Gods Truth convicts us all, but some will call Gods Word evil not to be convicted in their hearts, they willl use any excuse and put together what they thinks wisdom to battle against Gods wisdom.
But they live in their own foolishness they have no artillery to go against God, for their own artillery afflicts them not God.
Man has no power against God, but dig their own grave be trying to bury God.

 

[KennySe]

But we shouldn't ignore an argument like that, because people who make this kind of argument will only be confirmed that Christians are closed minded.

What does light have to do with darkness?