Totally driven into the ground by Evolutionists, but faith remains

[Gottservant]

Hi there!

Well, I don't really know where else to put this, but here.

I worked out that adaptations don't happen unless there is a set of genetic information, that individual mutations don't get anywhere. Like that there actually needs to be a development of genetic interpretation, with genetic markers et al, that if absent basically kills an organism. What this means is that "Evolution" "just happening" is a total farce.

The thing is that Evolutionists are such a beatdown, when it comes to this sort of thing. I put the above comment in the forum on this site, and although it basically put an end to most discussion, I can assure you that the insults did not stop there. Within a month I saw a cartoon saying "Now that we've evolved, let's build a wall to stop other things evolving" as if that was some indication of how stupid the average "so called evolved" creature is.

What I can't work out, is how a person can grow to hate so much. You know, like how does Darwin grow up this little kid and think, "one day, I'm going to show the world how moral I am, by calling everyone degenerate creatures with no honourable history" What a joke! As if some brat kid can undo thousands of years of Honour to Mankind, let alone Christ Himself! So that is where all the hate is, wrapped up in whether mankind has any honour in his history at all.

Without a sense of honour, a man does nothing but evil.

I think we saw that in WWII and we have to remind ourselves to be vigilant, because the enemy would love to sow seeds of doubt, at the earliest possible opportunity. He has no morals. He knows he has no morals, because he has already started laughing at the principle of the light and does not have the percept necessary to guide his thoughts beyond filth. It is in this pitiful state that mankind finds himself, without recourse to the salvation of Christ in the Name of a Monkey.

If you don't believe yourself to be a man, you cannot have the salvation of a man. This is the Law.

To God be the glory for this post, the Word of His mouth be praised. The sacrifice made, is made in the Name of the Holy One of Israel.

 

[KWCrazy]

We know that adaptation occurs from a given set of genetic information; that it is a conservative process; and that through adaptation genetic information can be lost but not magically acquired. We know that repeated subtraction can never lead to addition, so adaptation leading to evolution is contra-indicated by the observed processes. We know that benevolent mutations are extremely rare and have never been observed to advance a species in complexity or acquire new genetic information. We know that experiments designed to demonstrate evolution by massively increasing the mutation rate have failed to show any of the process which must be common for evolution to occur. In short, experiments to prove evolution have invalidated it. Regardless, it's all the atheists have.

He who loveth not knoweth not God, for God is love. These atheists don't know God and reject His love. Being not filled with love, they are filled with pride, bitterness and hatred. They refuse to believe that God exists and claim that the world is completely secular. Any challenge to that is a challenge to their fragile belief system, so they lash out with personal attacks and lies. I finally decided not to post in forums where the atheists lurk. You can't reason with them because their minds are clouded with the rejection of truth. They all cite the same cherry picked Bible verses out of context that they think shows errors in the Bible. They call the Holy Bible a book of mythology written by simple minded men. They don;t hate you, they hate God. Their hatred is intensified by the inner knowledge that everything they proclaim is wrong. I believe even these people have a conscience, though they don't listen to it.

They think they are smarter and better educated than you, even if they can't construct a simple sentence. They are pompous, arrogant and filled with themselves, not the Holy Spirit. They come to Christian websites to promote their world view and to attempt to destroy the faith of believers. In this they are doing the work of their god, who is not God.

The word of God is right. The atheists are wrong. Carry on and Godspeed.

 

[sfs]

That is the real kicker. There are perhaps hundreds of thousands of books that deal with evolution or are written from a evolution perspective. Yet a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. They have painted themselves into a corner and the beneficial mutation theory just does not come to their rescue.

To what extent mutations take place is not relevant. They fail to meet the burden of proof to show that their beneficial mutations theory has any value at all. The most simple of life still has very complex DNA.

Does this mean that you're familiar with the scientific literature on beneficial mutations (which do indeed occur, by the way)? Or are you repeating something someone else said about mutations? Either way, it would be helpful if you provided the source of your information, since it doesn't agree at all with what I know about genetics.

 

[KWCrazy]

Either way, it would be helpful if you provided the source of your information, since it doesn't agree at all with what I know about genetics.

If you know that beneficial mutations are common, that they have been shown to advance a species and encode new genetic information, then you know something that simply is not true.

 

[KTskater]

If you know that beneficial mutations are common, that they have been shown to advance a species and encode new genetic information, then you know something that simply is not true.

Have you ever had to take antibiotics? If so, the doctor probably told you to make sure to finish the treatment, no matter if you were feeling well or not. This is because if you do not kill off all of the bacteria, they often produce mutations that allow them to be immune to that antibiotic. This is an example of a beneficial mutation (to the bacterium, not for us, obviously haha) advancing a species. This happens to millions of strains of bacteria every year. I'd say that's pretty common.
Maybe you've heard about the issue that happened with HIV treatment? Doctors and researchers created a new enzyme inhibitor to block the virus. This had never before been seen in nature. It was synthetic. This enzyme inhibitor worked for a couple years, but soon the treatments stopped working. The virus had developed a new mutation which allowed it to survive. This treatment no longer works on HIV.
That is another example of mutations being beneficial and producing new genetic information.

 

[KWCrazy]

We aren't talking about bacteria or microscopic organisms, unless you have evidence of bacteria becoming something other than bacteria. Adaptation or changes in diet do not indicate increased complexity or evolution to another species.

 

[KTskater]

We aren't talking about bacteria or microscopic organisms, unless you have evidence of bacteria becoming something other than bacteria. Adaptation or changes in diet do not indicate increased complexity or evolution to another species.

I wasn't addressing increased complexity (although, I've yet to have someone define "increased complexity" to me) or speciation. I was addressing your assertion that beneficial mutations do not occur/do not occur often. They do occur, they do advance a species, and they do add new genetic information. The above are just a couple examples.


Also, to address the OP, the world is full of bitter and angry people. Many of them also claim to be Christians. Many kind, genuine people are atheists. There is something distinctive about someone filled with the Holy Spirit, so I hope in your interactions with angry, bitter people, you respond with the type of love that Jesus had. In fact, in your interactions with all mankind, attempt to show the type of love that God has shown you. Atheists or "evolutionists" are not your enemy. They are God's lost sheep. Show them God through your words and actions.

 

[Papias]

Originally Posted by KWCrazy

If you know that beneficial mutations are common, that they have been shown to advance a species and encode new genetic information, then you know something that simply is not true.

​

Um, you state that with no support? You know that sfs is an expert in the field, and actually works with this stuff every day. You on the other hand, expect people to just buy your statements with no support?

Well, you are welcome to post the papers you used into come to that conclusion. There is plenty of evidence for many observed beneficial mutations. For example, here is an observed beneficial mutation for better immune cells in humans: Enhanced fMLP-stimulated chemotaxis in human neutr... [FEBS Lett. 1998] - PubMed result, an observed beneficial mutation for bigger muscles in humans: A Very Muscular Baby Offers Hope Against Diseases - NYTimes.com, in bacteria, an observed beneficial mutation for the ability to eat citrate Historical contingency and the evolution of a key innovation in an experimental population of Escherichia coli — PNAS , and an observed beneficial mutation for the ability to digest nylon Emergence of nylon oligomer degradation enzymes in Pseudomonas aeruginosa PAO through experimental evolution -- Prijambada et al. 61 (5): 2020 -- Applied and Environmental Microbiology, and if all those weren't enough (and there are plenty more), then here are literally hundreds of beneficial mutations intentionally induced by radiation exposure, where crop seeds are irradiated to cause mutations, then the plants are grown, the deletrious mutants thrown out, and the beneficial mutants kept : [URL]http://www.google.com/url?q=http://w...AH_QcyyFkg6wsg[/URL]

Plus, simple common sense shows that there are plenty of beneficial mutations. A mutation will cause a change in the offspring. So look at your arm - a mutation would make it longer, or shorter. Which is "beneficial", and which is "harmful"? Well, that depends on the environment. If you are living in the trees, the longer arm is beneficial for reaching branches. If you are a runner on the plains,the longer arm is harmful, because it's more weight to carry.

Or look at a rabbit's fur. Is a mutation making the fur white "beneficial", or "harmful"? Well, if that rabbit lives in a semi-tropical forest, the white one is a death sentence, because it would stick out. But if it lives in a snowy region,then the white fur mutation is beneficial - helping it hide in the snow.

See how that works? Mutations are changes, and the environment makes them beneficial or harmful.

We aren't talking about bacteria or microscopic organisms, unless you have evidence of bacteria becoming something other than bacteria. Adaptation or changes in diet do not indicate increased complexity or evolution to another species.

Watch those goalposts get moved! Oh, you are losing a discussion? Just move the goalposts! It's a tried and true tactic of those with no support for their arguments.

Additional information does indicate increased complexity, and examples have been given repeatedly for you. Speciation usually takes many mutations, as KTskater pointed out.

In Christ's name-

Papias

 

[Adaephon]

If you know that beneficial mutations are common, that they have been shown to advance a species and encode new genetic information, then you know something that simply is not true.

Tracking the in vivo evolution of multidrug resistance in Staphylococcus aureus by whole-genome sequencing

"
The spread of multidrug-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) strains in the clinical environment has begun to pose serious limits to treatment options. Yet virtually nothing is known about how resistance traits are acquired in vivo. Here, we apply the power of whole-genome sequencing to identify steps in the evolution of multidrug resistance in isogenic S. aureus isolates recovered periodically from the bloodstream of a patient undergoing chemotherapy with vancomycin and other antibiotics. After extensive therapy, the bacterium developed resistance, and treatment failed. Sequencing the first vancomycin susceptible isolate and the last vancomycin nonsusceptible isolate identified genome wide only 35 point mutations in 31 loci. These mutations appeared in a sequential order in isolates that were recovered at intermittent times during chemotherapy in parallel with increasing levels of resistance. The vancomycin nonsusceptible isolates also showed a 100-fold decrease in susceptibility to daptomycin, although this antibiotic was not used in the therapy. One of the mutated loci associated with decreasing vancomycin susceptibility (the vraR operon) was found to also carry mutations in six additional vancomycin nonsusceptible S. aureus isolates belonging to different genetic backgrounds and recovered from different geographic sites. As costs drop, whole-genome sequencing will become a useful tool in elucidating complex pathways of in vivo evolution in bacterial pathogens."

 

[SkyWriting]

I worked out that adaptations don't happen unless there is a set of genetic information, that individual mutations don't get anywhere.

There are two aspects of the controlled mutations that we can monitor, where they occur and if they "stick". The same mutations will occur in separate populations when stressed. This is evidence that they are by design. The most harmful mutations occur the least often, and the least harmful occur the most often. More evidence of intelligent design.

A beneficial mutation is one that allows a population to survive longer when under "stress". As long as you keep the context that a "beneficial mutation" helps a dying population to survive longer, then "beneficial mutations" do exist in a reproducible, statistical, scientific context.

There are none known that advance a population. But there are some that reduce the effects of larger mutations and some that mitigate the effects of a harmful environment.

"We found evidence for diminishing-returns epistasis; the effects were more beneficial for lower-fitness genotypes. "

Evolution is founded on the principal that some mutations benefit the whole and advance a species. No such facts have been found. The concept of "beneficial mutations" is a theoretical mess.