Total Relief

[JADVirginia]

I am totally relieved that the proposal to permit the ordination of practicing gay clergy has been defeated. And for once, the ELCA did not take a wishy-washy stand by permitting special exceptions.

Thoughts?

JADViginia

 

[cableguy]

I'm relieved as well, mostly that it's over. I'm sure the debate will go on and on. If you look at the news and current events thread, you'll see we're already being called bigots. If the vote went the other way I'm sure we would have been called much worse. No win situation when it comes to that.

 

[ByzantineDixie]

I guess my question is how long can the ELCA keep putting this off? How long will the nail biting continue? While I am very happy about the outcome of this vote...I just wonder if it is just postponing the inevitable. I pray not.

 

[PuppyforChrist]

I think the ELCA did good here.

I haven't heard people calling the ELCA "bigots" really, but I just hope that this whole thing will become yesterdays news so to speak at some point so that they world will start to leave us alone and accept us. Although that probably won't happen, at least not for a while yet.

 

[Willy]

I would have wished that the vote would have been different, although admittedly the resolution had inherent problems. The closeness of the vote indicates that the future will bring full inclusion of practicing gays and lesbians.

 

[RedneckAnglican]

At least I won't have to change my signature for awhile...I'm quite relieved...the Church Council meeting this month would have bee VERY different if it had passed...

 

[Melethiel]

I'm relieved that it didn't pass this time - but the vote was too close for comfort. We haven't seen the last of this. They're going to keep trying until the vote passes.

 

[JADVirginia]

I'm relieved as well, mostly that it's over. I'm sure the debate will go on and on. If you look at the news and current events thread, you'll see we're already being called bigots. If the vote went the other way I'm sure we would have been called much worse. No win situation when it comes to that.

It amazes me. The ELCA struggled with the question for three years, all the while encouraging thoughtful and respectful dialogue. I guess that we don't even get goodie points for considering the issue!

 

[Melethiel]

I have now determined that the whole fuss made over the issue of ordaining gays was a coverup to slip the new hymnal through virtually unnoticed.

 

[JADVirginia]

I have now determined that the whole fuss made over the issue of ordaining gays was a coverup to slip the new hymnal through virtually unnoticed.

Alas ... the organist caught their treachery!!

 

[RedneckAnglican]

I have now determined that the whole fuss made over the issue of ordaining gays was a coverup to slip the new hymnal through virtually unnoticed.

now...which hymnal are we talking about...the new new red hymnal...the new old red hymnal...the old new red hymnal...or the old old red hymnal?...

 

[romaneagle13]

I am pleased that you all have been able to keep some stability in your church despite the controversy of this issue. It is tearing my church apart. I pray that yours will remain strong.

 

[ctobola]

That's exactly the reason I wish it would have passed. That probably would have lead to a split, but there's already a lot of dissatisfaction within the ELCA and having this hanging over our heads for another four years isn't going to enhance our ministry.

-Cloy

I'm relieved that it didn't pass this time - but the vote was too close for comfort. We haven't seen the last of this. They're going to keep trying until the vote passes.

 

[SPALATIN]

That's exactly the reason I wish it would have passed. That probably would have lead to a split, but there's already a lot of dissatisfaction within the ELCA and having this hanging over our heads for another four years isn't going to enhance our ministry.

-Cloy

Cloy,

This is not to pick on you as a Pastor, but think about this. By endorsing this you are saying that homosexuality is not sin. That is exactly what the leadership of the synod wants you to think. I don't condone turning these people away from the church because they need to hear God's word so that they may have the opportunity for repentance. I don't care if they are in a committed relationship. The bible speaks clearly that relations of this type are perverse and not the way that God created them.

The church should not tolerate the world culture. It should stand strong against that tide, but what I see the leadership of your synod doing is the very opposite. Your delegates spoke out in defeat of it. Since there is a need for a 2/3s majority it was a strong statement. If it only needed a simple majority it would have been rather weak.

We need to use Matt 18 as our guide to bringing sinners into the church. We need to give them the word but also let them know that sin is not tolerated. This goes for any synod. It doesn't matter if it is homosexuality or syncretism. both are wrong in God's eyes. I am not looking to pick a fight here and I didn't come to bash you or your synod, but to give a different perspective on these issues.

If the church were to give Gays the right to be ordained what message would that give the community? If your synod had approved same-sex unions wouldn't that support un-sinning sin? If it did not support that message then what does it say?

I guess I just don't understand those who consider scripture as not totally authoritative.

 

[Protoevangel]

This time, I think I understand where Cloy is comming from. I think he is saying that in the ELCA, it is probably going to happen anyway, and that the resulting split would be a good thing (those who want to follow God's Word would go their way, and those who want to follow the world would go their own). But by this relativly narrow defeat (and with conservatives slowly drizzling away) leaves the ELCA in a kind of limbo, still mixing the truth with the lies. If that is what he means, then I can almost agree with him on this one. It would be somewhat of a relief to have this over, and get back to our true mission, but it is not close to being over.

 

[SPALATIN]

This time, I think I understand where Cloy is comming from. I think he is saying that in the ELCA, it is probably going to happen anyway, and that the resulting split would be a good thing (those who want to follow God's Word would go their way, and those who want to follow the world would go their own). But by this relativly narrow defeat (and with conservatives slowly drizzling away) leaves the ELCA in a kind of limbo, still mixing the truth with the lies. If that is what he means, then I can almost agree with him on this one. It would be somewhat of a relief to have this over, and get back to our true mission, but it is not close to being over.

Dan,


So should the Psychiatrists take their coats and give the keys to the patients in the asylum on their way out? "These people are too sick for us to help so let's let them have their way here, they will anyways, and we can go find some people who will really benefit from our help."

Did Jesus say, "These people are hopeless. I can't get them to listen to me so I will just leave them alone and concentrate on those who are my real friends."? Seems to me that he died for all the people whether they wanted it or not and then he gave his Apostles their commission. He also told people to go and sin no more.


Not that I am not for getting on with the true mission, but I am also for fighting the liberal ideal to the end if necessary to keep things of God for God. So even with a "narrow victory" it is still a victory. Just because you feel that it will be inevitable doesn't mean you shouldn't fight them to the bitter end.

This just my perspective on what I believe is still part of the calling of his sheep.

 

[Protoevangel]

Dan,


So should the Psychiatrists take their coats and give the keys to the patients in the asylum on their way out? "These people are too sick for us to help so let's let them have their way here, they will anyways, and we can go find some people who will really benefit from our help."

Did Jesus say, "These people are hopeless. I can't get them to listen to me so I will just leave them alone and concentrate on those who are my real friends."? Seems to me that he died for all the people whether they wanted it or not and then he gave his Apostles their commission. He also told people to go and sin no more.


Not that I am not for getting on with the true mission, but I am also for fighting the liberal ideal to the end if necessary to keep things of God for God. So even with a "narrow victory" it is still a victory. Just because you feel that it will be inevitable doesn't mean you shouldn't fight them to the bitter end.

This just my perspective on what I believe is still part of the calling of his sheep.

If this is the case, shouldn't we all be one big happy synod? No LCMS, WELS, ELS, TAALC, etc. Just one big happy unionistic group teaching all kinds of different things?

Maybe you are right. I am torn, and see strength and weakness in both positions. I am still with the ELCA, after all. But I say again, it would be a relief to have this ended. I am sure Paul would have considered it a relief to be released from prison, but that didn't stop him from completing his mission.

 

[SPALATIN]

If this is the case, shouldn't we all be one big happy synod? No LCMS, WELS, ELS, TAALC, etc. Just one big happy unionistic group teaching all kinds of different things?

Maybe you are right. I am torn, and see strength and weakness in both positions. I am still with the ELCA, after all. But I say again, it would be a relief to have this ended. I am sure Paul would have considered it a relief to be released from prison, but that didn't stop him from completing his mission.

To me it shows that the Synod leadership has not convinced everyone that their agenda is good for the church. They did pass an "agree to disagree" platform on this subject which to me says that it probably will pass at the next convention.

So it begs the question if you know it is inevitable why stay if you would be against the measure? You know where I stand on unionism.

 

[DailyBlessings]

I am glad that they came to a conclusion, and in the way that they did. Even if I do not agree with the outcome.

 

[Protoevangel]

if you know it is inevitable why stay if you would be against the measure? You know where I stand on unionism.

If I left, I would be leaving hundreds of people who never get the Gospel from the pulpit. If I left, they would never have the chance to learn about what is so wrong in the synodical leadership. The ELCA (at least this congregation) is an open mission field that has been abandoned for too long.