Total Ability

[reformed ttL]

wow you have a lot of time on your hands i dont even have the time to read let alone post that much stuff

 

[Near]

Good post, I'll be reading it over.

 

[janxharris]

Good Day, GMM

These are commands or requests, but the validity of the command or request are not depenant on ones abilty to carry them out.


No man Can come to me.
The command to come is valid.

Love the Lord they God with all thine heart, valid command.

It is still valid even though you are unable to do so.

I belive this error was addressed long ago:

God command what thou will, and grant what thou command.

In Him,

Bill

For God to command that which man is unable to do would be incongruous. How can God be anything other than disingenuous if this were the case?

Surely Isaiah 55:6-7 and John 6:44 amount to synergism?

 

[BBAS 64]

For God to command that which man is unable to do would be incongruous. How can God be anything other than disingenuous if this were the case?

Surely Isaiah 55:6-7 and John 6:44 amount to synergism?

Goopd day,

Not so in the objective reality of Scripture.

Come unto me....
No man can come in John speaks to mans inabilty to come has nothing to do with synergism per say.

.... Unless GOD (my Father) does some thing namely draws. That action is synergistic as God does the action of (draw)

The 10 commandments are valid commands how do you do keeping those every second of your life.

In Him,

Bill

 

[janxharris]

Goopd day,

Not so in the objective reality of Scripture.

Come unto me....
No man can come in John speaks to mans inabilty to come has nothing to do with synergism per say.

.... Unless GOD (my Father) does some thing namely draws. That action is synergistic as God does the action of (draw)

The 10 commandments are valid commands how do you do keeping those every second of your life.

In Him,

Bill

I'm not following your argument Bill.

It is possible not to break the commandments (I'm not saying that anyone achieves 100% perfection in this).

 

[BBAS 64]

I'm not following your argument Bill.

It is possible not to break the commandments (I'm not saying that anyone achieves 100% perfection in this).

Good day, Jan

It is possible... really how is that working out for you?

It is possible . but on the other hand no one can, you do see this type of statment is non-sense.

Do you belive in sinless prefection on the part of man is possible?

you said "For God to command that which man is unable to do would be incongruous"


I disagree, come unto me is a command do you agree?

But Jesus says we are unable to do so. Is that incongruous?

Or Repent is a command but repentance must be granted in order to do so.

Can God command based soley on his role has creator with out any other dependacies (our abilty) and soley based on what and whom he is?

You seem to believe that Gods commands with in them (by need) it must also include (defacto') our abilty to keep the command, on that I disagree.

In Him,

Bill

 

[Skala]

For God to command that which man is unable to do would be incongruous. How can God be anything other than disingenuous if this were the case?

Surely Isaiah 55:6-7 and John 6:44 amount to synergism?

God most assuredly commands that which is impossible.

How about the 10 commandments? We are told that it is impossible to keep the law, in the NT. The Law exists not as a means of salvation but as a mirror and standard to see sin by. Thus the law exists as something impossible for any man except Christ.

And again, Christ said "be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect". Is that possible? Of course not.

Thus, I derive two truths from these facts:

1) Command does not imply ability
1A) in some cases, it instead serves to show our inability, in fact.

2) God has, and does, command what is impossible.

 

[Near]

That's silly.

We can obey God.

it's not hard at all

the scriptures say, "not burdensome"

 

[Arcoe]

God most assuredly commands that which is impossible.

How about the 10 commandments? We are told that it is impossible to keep the law, in the NT. The Law exists not as a means of salvation but as a mirror and standard to see sin by. Thus the law exists as something impossible for any man except Christ.

And again, Christ said "be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect". Is that possible? Of course not.

Thus, I derive two truths from these facts:

1) Command does not imply ability
1A) in some cases, it instead serves to show our inability, in fact.

2) God has, and does, command what is impossible.

I see one of two things of why a man does not keep the commandments.

1. He is still bound by sin, and sin is his master.
2. If he is freed from sin, he refuses to obey them.

Concerning no. 1, I think it's pretty much self-explanatory.
Concerning no. 2, does the Bible say we CANNOT do ALL things through Christ? If you can't keep the commandments, then I can assure you, it's not because Jesus isn't there to help you. It's not the absence of ability which prevents one from obeying, it's unwillingness.

Which of the 10 commandments are you having problems with? If you do not keep them, how will you inherit eternal life if you don't do what they say?

Luke 10
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Again, I ask, which of the 10 commandments are you having problems with? Do you have murder brewing within you? Do you lust after your neighbor's wife? Are you wanting to steal something? Can you not love the Lord with all your heart? Can you not love your neighbor? Perhaps, you have problems with lying.

Humble yourself before the Lord, and He will give you grace to help with these things. Beseech the Lord to help you. Repent and seek the Lord. Don't excuse yourself and break these commandments. It has nothing to do with inability, but rather, it's unwillingness.

And yes, you can be perfect as Jesus told us. Read that verse in context, and not by itself. If you can't love your enemies, then no, you cannot be perfect.

Get off your monergism duff and show the Lord He is your Master. Show Him you love Him by keeping His commandments. Stop the excuses and obey. Why is this so hard for Christians? I don't want to hear your theological excuses. They won't help you in the day of judgement, for it is your works, not your beliefs, that will be judged.

Sorry if this seems a little rough, but sometimes it takes a knock in the head for us to see things, and get us going. It's not 'means', it is OBEDIENCE! If you are a servant of Christ, you have absolutely no say in obeying the Master; it is required of you. Do not rebel against the Master, or He will remedy the situation.

He has given you everything you need to obey Him (the Word, the Spirit, the ability); you have no excuse to not obey Him. The choice is freely up to you to obey Him, and that is the ONLY thing which prevents you from obeying His commandments.

In His love,

 

[Shulamite]

God most assuredly commands that which is impossible.

How about the 10 commandments? We are told that it is impossible to keep the law, in the NT. The Law exists not as a means of salvation but as a mirror and standard to see sin by. Thus the law exists as something impossible for any man except Christ.

And again, Christ said "be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect". Is that possible? Of course not.

Thus, I derive two truths from these facts:

1) Command does not imply ability
1A) in some cases, it instead serves to show our inability, in fact.

2) God has, and does, command what is impossible.

Yes. Exactly.

 

[Shulamite]

That's silly.

We can obey God.

it's not hard at all

the scriptures say, "not burdensome"

You CAN obey God? I cannot obey God in my own ability. Jesus said, "apart from Me, you can do nothing."

That means, apart from His Spirit working in me, I cannot obey Him. Even the apostle Paul said, "in his inner man he delighted in God's law, but was UNABLE to carry it out." Romans 7:18

 

[Arcoe]

You CAN obey God? I cannot obey God in my own ability. Jesus said, "apart from Me, you can do nothing."

That means, apart from His Spirit working in me, I cannot obey Him. Even the apostle Paul said, "in his inner man he delighted in God's law, but was UNABLE to carry it out." Romans 7:18

With all due respect Shula, you, and every other person CAN obey God. Are you telling me you commit adultery and do NOT have the ability to obey God and stop this horrible sin? Do you commit murder wherever you go? How can you say you have no ability to obey God?

And did you not have this ability before you came to Him? Did you steal at every store you shopped? Did you not have the ability to not lie? Or did you lie with every word out of your mouth?

So Paul couldn't carry out God's command to not murder? Did Paul have sex with all the women of the churches he visited? Was he unable to carry out God's command to flee fornication?

I have no idea where people get this belief. I think it can be called 'extreme' Calvinism. On paper, it might look good, but in reality, it doesn't hold water. Everyday, everywhere, the unregenerate have the ability to obey God. If not, we would have rampant murder, theft, and adultery on every corner and in every house.

No offense, but if you cannot obey God from your own ability, I don't know if I would want to be around you and those who believe this. I would be safer around the unregenerate who do have the ability to refrain from murder and adultery.

 

[vette 10]

With all due respect Shula, you, and every other person CAN obey God. Are you telling me you commit adultery and do NOT have the ability to obey God and stop this horrible sin? Do you commit murder wherever you go? How can you say you have no ability to obey God?

And did you not have this ability before you came to Him? Did you steal at every store you shopped? Did you not have the ability to not lie? Or did you lie with every word out of your mouth?

So Paul couldn't carry out God's command to not murder? Did Paul have sex with all the women of the churches he visited? Was he unable to carry out God's command to flee fornication?

I have no idea where people get this belief. I think it can be called 'extreme' Calvinism. On paper, it might look good, but in reality, it doesn't hold water. Everyday, everywhere, the unregenerate have the ability to obey God. If not, we would have rampant murder, theft, and adultery on every corner and in every house.

No offense, but if you cannot obey God from your own ability, I don't know if I would want to be around you and those who believe this. I would be safer around the unregenerate who do have the ability to refrain from murder and adultery.

there are a lot more sins than those few you mentioned , are you preaching the gospel to every creature you meet? what about sins you don't even know you commit?? are you ever angry? ect ect common grace is a wonderfull thing

 

[Shulamite]

With all due respect Shula, you, and every other person CAN obey God. Are you telling me you commit adultery and do NOT have the ability to obey God and stop this horrible sin? Do you commit murder wherever you go? How can you say you have no ability to obey God?

And did you not have this ability before you came to Him? Did you steal at every store you shopped? Did you not have the ability to not lie? Or did you lie with every word out of your mouth?

So Paul couldn't carry out God's command to not murder? Did Paul have sex with all the women of the churches he visited? Was he unable to carry out God's command to flee fornication?

I have no idea where people get this belief. I think it can be called 'extreme' Calvinism. On paper, it might look good, but in reality, it doesn't hold water. Everyday, everywhere, the unregenerate have the ability to obey God. If not, we would have rampant murder, theft, and adultery on every corner and in every house.

No offense, but if you cannot obey God from your own ability, I don't know if I would want to be around you and those who believe this. I would be safer around the unregenerate who do have the ability to refrain from murder and adultery.

Hi Arcoe...
No offense taken. However, my only response is simple: NO. Before God rescued me and gave me a new birth, I was NOT able to carry out His law and desires. Even after Paul was saved, He said He was not able to carry them out. Romans 7:18. Paul admitted that apart from God's grace working in him, he couldn't obey. Was Paul himself misled?
If I obey Jesus ,it's because it's Jesus living His life in me. He said, apart from Me, you can do NOTHING."

That's okay. You don't have to feel comfortable with me. My soul finds rest in God alone anyway

Blessings.

 

[Near]

Oh okay, so since we cant preach the gospel 24/7 to everyone, sin is natural. A homosexual simplyhas to wait for God to change him, right? since he cant stop of his own will.

I think gay churches will embrace calvinist for some reason.....wait for God to wil you to stop sinning....hmmm

 

[Arcoe]

Hi Arcoe...
No offense taken. However, my only response is simple: NO. Before God rescued me and gave me a new birth, I was NOT able to carry out His law and desires.

Honestly Shula, you couldn't refrain from murder before your new birth? Thou shall not murder is a law of God.

You had no love at all for your family, friends, and neighbors before your new birth?

And you can genuinely tell me you couldn't stop lying before your new birth?

Even after Paul was saved, He said He was not able to carry them out. Romans 7:18. Paul admitted that apart from God's grace working in him, he couldn't obey. Was Paul himself misled?
If I obey Jesus ,it's because it's Jesus living His life in me. He said, apart from Me, you can do NOTHING."

Paul said the thing he wanted to do, he didn't. So I ask, could Paul refrain himself from having illicit affairs with the women in the churches he visited? Or did he do that which he didn't want to do?

I asked in another thread, that if your pastor got up and preached the same words Paul wrote in Romans 7, would you trust your pastor? If he did those things which he did not want to do, would you trust your daughter around him? I would like to know in all honesty. I think I would want a pastor who abstains from wickedness, walks in the Spirit, and flees fornication. Wouldn't you?

Also, if you caught your husband in adultery, would you believe him if he said the thing I didn't want to do, I did, just as Paul writes. Would this be an acceptable excuse to you?

That's okay. You don't have to feel comfortable with me. My soul finds rest in God alone anyway

Blessings.

I was being facetious. I don't think I would have any problem at all around you. However, I surely hope you can refrain yourself from stealing from me; I need all I have.

 

[Near]

Hey, I read this thing about Romans 7 and Pual using what is known as historical present tense.

http://www.pinpointevangelism.com/JohnDuncan-Romans7.pdf

 

[Yahu]

The “T” in Calvinism’s Total Depravity/Inability states:

Because of the Fall, man is unable of himself to savingly believe the gospel. The sinner is dead, blind and deaf to the things of God; his heart is deceitful and desperately corrupt. His will is not free; it is in bondage to his evil nature. Therefore he will not—indeed cannot—choose good over evil in the spiritual realm.

This is the type of nonsense I can't stomach with Calvinism. Adam didn't eat from the tree of evil. He ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. We all have the ability to know both and chose which to follow. We just are not capable of always choosing good with our flesh nature.

 

[Near]

Whats a flesh nature?

 

[Shulamite]

Whats a flesh nature?

The nature we have before we are born again. It's the sinful nature that is in rebellion against God.

Unless God gives us a new nature and changes our hearts (being born again from His Spirit) we will forever be in that natural nature/flesh nature that sins and willfully rebels against God.