Torah Law & Catholicism

[MorphRC]

Pax Christi Brethren!

Ive been chatting lately with Messanic Jews [Cough: Christians :Cough] and they keep saying that Christ or the Bible [Injil] didnt release us from being subject to the Old Law.

Need to Knows:

(1) Are we Free, and where does it say so?
(2) Why are we free?

Todah. Bro Paul!

 

[Amandine]

I would like to hear more on this subject as well.
*bump*
-Catherine

 

[Michelina]

Brother Paul, I am puzzled.

Surely they have read Acts 15:28 - 29 "It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell."

Do these Jewish Christian think that they, as Jews, are still required to follow that Law? Jews do treasure their Jewishness.

Paul's epistles, however, are adamant on this subject.
What do they say to Paul?

 

[MorphRC]

Brother Paul, I am puzzled.

Surely they have read Acts 15:28 - 29 "It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell."

Do these Jewish Christian think that they, as Jews, are still required to follow that Law? Jews do treasure their Jewishness.

Paul's epistles, however, are adamant on this subject.
What do they say to Paul?

Are there any other quote I can use to say were free from the old Law?

Yes they think they are Jews. Even though there not, since they believe in the Messiah. Kind of contradicts. Yes Jews do love their Jewry, I have to admit the whole culture, tradition is cool, Im glad the Catholic Church has many Jewish traditions handed in by God and the Apostles

 

[marciadietrich]

Are there any other quote I can use to say were free from the old Law?

How about all of Romans! We live by grace, we are saved by grace, we have a circumcision of the heart. Hebrews too I believe.

 

[Michelina]

Are there any other quote I can use to say were free from the old Law?

http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible
Use this site, Brother Paul. type in 'law' and restrict the search to 'New Testament' or just 'Pauline Epistles'. You'll come up with a ton of stuff.

Yes they think they are Jews. Even though they're not, since they believe in the Messiah.

They can be Christians and still consider themselves Jewish Christians.

Kind of contradicts. Yes Jews do love their Jewry, I have to admit the whole culture, tradition is cool, I'm glad the Catholic Church has many Jewish traditions handed in by God and the Apostles

I don't blame them for treasuring their Jewishness. And I see no reason not to keep the Mosaic law if they choose. But St. Paul makes his position clear about this.

 

[MorphRC]

[QUOTE]They can be Christians and still consider themselves Jewish Christians.[/QUOTE]
You cant be a Jewish Christian, thats a oxymoron. To be Jewish you must follow the torah, and believe that the messiah is coming. To be Christian is to believe the messiah has come, and has freed us from the Old Law. It contradicts. Even the Jews recognize this as a oxymoron.

 

[MorphRC]

http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible
Use this site, Brother Paul. type in 'law' and restrict the search to 'New Testament' or just 'Pauline Epistles'. You'll come up with a ton of stuff.



They can be Christians and still consider themselves Jewish Christians.



I don't blame them for treasuring their Jewishness. And I see no reason not to keep the Mosaic law if they choose. But St. Paul makes his position clear about this.

All my images are failing. I cant see anything, it just loads the books of the bible and thats it. Do you have a direct link? Brb Gotta send a email to these Idiots here.

 

[Amandine]

Surely they have read Acts 15:28 - 29 "It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell."

But their bibles have a different version... or maybe a different section, that implies that this is just a beginning set and that you would learn about mitzvot from the synagogue. But I can't remember it...
-Catherine

 

[Achichem]

I would also like to hear

Are you aware that just cause we say we are subject to the laws; we are not saying you who do not follow the laws are without salvation?

 

[MorphRC]

I would also like to hear

Are you aware that just cause we say we are subject to the laws; we are not saying you who do not follow the laws are without salvation?

Messanics believe Jesus was the Messiah Right? If so, why do you disregard what He set forth thru the apostles?

 

[Achichem]

Messanics believe Jesus was the Messiah Right? If so, why do you disregard what He set forth thru the apostles?

Yes of course we believe Jesus, the messiah!

I don’t think I quite get what you mean? That could mean a lot of diffrent things, may you please clarify.

 

[Achichem]

But their bibles have a different version... or maybe a different section, that implies that this is just a beginning set and that you would learn about mitzvot from the synagogue. But I can't remember it...
-Catherine

Not quite, from what I am aware...



You see this concept is not new in Judaism; these are well known mitzvot that relate to gentiles; you have to understand Jews(generally speaking) don’t believe you have to be Jewish or follow all mitzvot to get salvation; however, that does not mean we are not subject to the mitzvot, or that we should not use the mitzvot as Paul teaches it (for doctrine, reproof and instruction in rightness); or well accepted Judaic understanding for that matter.


The thing happening there is a talking about a perception not within Judaic teachings but instead culture perception of gentile as unclean and un-godly.



Anyways, something for you to look in to and think about;
-DaTsar

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Almost all of the epistles of St Paul speak against following the Old Laws.

These are the verses that Protestants get confused about and think there is only "faith alone" that saves us.

There still is a law, just not an old law. Jesus said it wasn't good to put new wine into an old wine-skin.

 

[Michelina]

You cant be a Jewish Christian, that's an oxymoron. To be Jewish you must follow the torah, and believe that the messiah is coming. To be Christian is to believe the messiah has come, and has freed us from the Old Law. It contradicts. Even the Jews recognize this as a oxymoron.[/font]

Paul, some Jews do agree with you; others don't. Here in NY, we have many Messianic Jewish congragations. Some individuals still live by the Mosaic prescriptions and proscriptions.

DefensOrFidei makes a good point about Paul's teaching on this.

 

[Michelina]

Almost all of the epistles of St Paul speak against following the Old Laws.

These are the verses that Protestants get confused about and think there is only "faith alone" that saves us..

Exactly. I fought a battle in S&C in which homosexuals were using these verses to justify their behavior.

There still is a law, just not an old law. Jesus said it wasn't good to put new wine into an old wine-skin.

The Natural Law, to which Paul alludes in Romans and elsewhere, is still the basis of Christian morality.

The 'old Law' of which Paul writes refers to the Mosaic proscriptions and prescriptions God (thru Moses) gave the Jews in order to preserve them and prepare them for the Messias. Jesus fulfilled that Covenant and established an New one.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

The 'old Law' of which Paul writes refers to the Mosaic proscriptions and prescriptions God (thru Moses) gave the Jews in order to preserve them and prepare them for the Messias. Jesus fulfilled that Covenant and established an New one.

Well said.

How dangerous it is for those Christians that think there is no law, or that sins are no longer recorded, or that they are "once saved always saved."

Thats what happens when you leave the teachings of the Church guided into all truth by Jesus.

 

[Amandine]

I found it!
Acts 15: 20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.
That correlates with what I've heard...
-Catherine

 

[MorphRC]

Yes of course we believe Jesus, the messiah!

I don’t think I quite get what you mean? That could mean a lot of diffrent things, may you please clarify.

Oh You believe Jesus is the Messiah and therefore the NT shows us Jesus was the fulfillment of the OT, yet you stick to the Old Laws, when Jesus and the Apostles bided by God, said we are free and that it is not neccesary or needed.

Now to you believe in Jesus as God, the Messiah, the High Priest etc?

Do you believe in the trinity?

 

[Amandine]

They believe that even though Jesus fulfilled the laws, there is nothing in the bible saying he abolished them (which is kinda true...)
-Catherine