Tools for interpretation

[johnd]

We have so many blessings in the Bible.

It tells us of things we would not even have any idea about in our flesh. That there is a God that we are in need of salvation, and so on. It also sets the record straight about what is truen and what is false, what is real and what is unreal, what is fact and what is supposition what is legitimate and what is fraud.

It is no wonder that any person or group of persons trying to foist an untruth upon others (be it through tradition or outright fraud) tend to discourage Bible study (at least on that particular subject). Cultists do this, even the Church in some circles.

And the other sleight of hand is to misinterpret a passage in the Bible to support the view. The Apostle Peter spoke to this:

2 Peter 3:16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

The initial step in this thread is to point out that the Bible is the Word of God, and that God who is capable of communicating his Word to people (i.e. the Bible) is also capable of doing so in such a way to insure its proper interpretation: meaning to understand it the way he meant it.

Therefore the Bible is its own best commentary.

 

[iamjcs]

Yes, even Satan quoted scripture.

 

[johnd]

This is accomplished by the science / art of interpretation known as hermeneutics.


Hermeneutics

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Hermeneutics may be described as the theory of interpretation and understanding of a text through empirical means. It should not be confused with the concrete practice of interpretation called exegesis. Exegesis extracts the meaning of a passage of text and enlarges upon it and explicates it with explanatory glosses; hermeneutics addresses the ways in which a reader may come to the broadest understanding of the creator of text and his relation to his audiences, both local and over time, within the constraints of culture and history. Thus it is a branch of philosophy concerned with human understanding and the interpretation of texts. Recently the concept of texts has been extended beyond written documents to include, for example, speech, performances, works of art, and even events.

 

[johnd]

Exegesis is drawing out from the well of the Bible the waters that are there.

Eisegesis is presuming the water is something other than what it really is (based on what an individual or group wishes it to be).

Exegesis is to bring out from the Bible what actually is there .

Eisegesis is to impose upon the Bible what is not true.

Before we conjure up images of opposition denominations or cults or world religions, we must remember that a major pathway to the error of imposing human will upon Bible texts is the path of human understanding.

We are all born with it. It taints what would otherwise be pure communication of thought. For example, as children most of us have played the "telephone" or "grapevine" game at a party or some such event.

Child A whispers a simple thought to child B, child B whispers that thought to child C and so on. When the last child hears the message, they tell it aloud to the group and 99 times out of 100 it hardly ressembles the original thought.

There was an old poem in the 1970's (the last time I heard it anyway) that had the sentence in it "what you think you heard was not what I said."

The fact is, human language is imperfect because no two people understand exactly alike. Life experiences, personal education or lack thereof, mood, hopes and dreams, fantasies, all these things influence or interfere with human understanding and therefore human communication.

 

[billychum]

Exegesis, hermeneutics

I like your post, but can you please give me the meaning of these two terms in easy to understand 3rd grade language? I've yet to find an explanation that's not confusing.

Thanks
Billy <><

 

[johnd]

I like your post, but can you please give me the meaning of these two terms in easy to understand 3rd grade language? I've yet to find an explanation that's not confusing.

Thanks
Billy <><

exegesis is to take from the Bible what the Bible says
eisegesis is to impose on the Bible what it does not say.

hermeneutics is the determination of what is literal in a text and what is metaphor.

"God was angry" one text indicates from the Hebrew which literally said "God's nostrals flared." From it we hermeneutically deduce the metaphor that God was angry (hence the English interpretation of "God's nostrals flared") because it is indcated in scripture that God is Spirit and does not have a body nor literal nostrals to flare.

Hermeneutics takes all these things into account to deduce "God's nostrals flared" is an only expression that he was angered.

Does that help?

 

[billychum]

Very much. Thanks.
Billy <><

 

[justified]

The initial step in this thread is to point out that the Bible is the Word of God, and that God who is capable of communicating his Word to people (i.e. the Bible) is also capable of doing so in such a way to insure its proper interpretation: meaning to understand it the way he meant it.

This should be discussed more carefully before you continue. I don't think the Bible is its own best commentary.

 

[johnd]

This should be discussed more carefully before you continue. I don't think the Bible is its own best commentary.

Alright.

The onus is on you to disprove the statement since you challanged it. And I do stand ready to back with scripture my statement.

 

[justified]

The word "therefore" is a word used too much on this forum. It's a word word that denotes a logical relationship -- "because of something, this is true." If you want to use the word "therefore" make sure the statement following the conjunction actually (logically) follows from the conditions set before the conjunction.

The initial step in this thread is to point out that the Bible is the Word of God, and that God who is capable of communicating his Word to people (i.e. the Bible) is also capable of doing so in such a way to insure its proper interpretation: meaning to understand it the way he meant it.

Therefore the Bible is its own best commentary.

There is only one (improper) sentence before your therefore, and it contains several ideas:
1. Bible = word of God
2. God is able to communicate
3. God is capable of insuring proper interpretation
The question is, does it FOLLOW that therefore the Bible is the best commentay on scripture? Of course not. You haven't proved any of the previous statements. We are both bible-believing Christians, I take it, so we can assume postulate 1. Assuming this makes postulate 2 a given. Postulate 3, considering our (presumably shared) orthodox belief that God is all-powerful, is also a given. But the question is -- DID God do this? Has God historically made sure that only the proper interpretation of scripture is preserved? Obviously not. But I presume that you are going to disagree, so have at me with your scriptures.

 

[johnd]

Unimpressed.

Nevermind your superior English language skills. Prove that the Bible is not its own best commentary (which is what you challenged), and so far have offered nothing of substance to back up.

 

[justified]

Unimpressed.

Nevermind your superior English language skills. Prove that the Bible is not its own best commentary (which is what you challenged), and so far have offered nothing of substance to back up.

You want to play games? Fine. I have Hebrew, Greek, Akkadian, plus a whole bunch of training in interpretation. You offered nothing inthe first place by way of evidence. Offer something for= me to refute.

 

[johnd]

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You want to play games? Fine. I have Hebrew, Greek, Akkadian, plus a whole bunch of training in interpretation. You offered nothing inthe first place by way of evidence. Offer something for= me to refute.

No games. Just facts. I made a claim that the Bible is its own best commentary. You said no it isn't. It's up to you to start putting that education you are boasting about to work and prove your position that the Bible is not its own best commentary.

It's beginning to look a lot like you don't have anything to back up your position.

 

[justified]

It's beginning to look a lot like you don't have anything to back up your position.

I have nothing to argue against! Pull out all that scripture you "had waiting" and then we'll have something. But you just "said it" so that's all i've got. It's your word against mine, and I have the degrees

 

[johnd]

The Law:

Deuteronomy 4: 2 “You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

The Writings:

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. 6 Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

The Prophets:

Revelation 22:18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

The standard of testing all things:

Acts 17:11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

2 Peter 1:20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

John 16:13 “However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

Psalm 138:2 I will worship toward Your holy temple,
And praise Your name For Your lovingkindness and Your truth; For You have magnified Your word above all Your name.

John 17:17 “Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth.

All things are to be tested by the scriptures (including the interpretation of them):

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew yourself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

God reveals His mystery to those that He chooses. All the scholarship in the world will not lead one who is not chosen to understand. Christ said that while man can determine the coming weather (scientific observation) we are unable to determine the 'signs of the times'.

Literary, i.e. metaphor etc. presents the 'literal' in a more colorful way.

oldwiseguy

 

[johnd]

God reveals His mystery to those that He chooses. All the scholarship in the world will not lead one who is not chosen to understand. Christ said that while man can determine the coming weather (scientific observation) we are unable to determine the 'signs of the times'.

Literary, i.e. metaphor etc. presents the 'literal' in a more colorful way.

oldwiseguy

Good points. These mysteries these truths are in the Word of God right under our noses.

 

[johnd]

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I have nothing to argue against! Pull out all that scripture you "had waiting" and then we'll have something. But you just "said it" so that's all i've got. It's your word against mine, and I have the degrees

Posted what I "had waiting" days ago. Just waiting on you now.

Superbowl was a major disappointment. Referee Leavy was the best player on Pittsburg's team. <sheesh>

And I didn't even have a dog in that race.

 

[justified]

i will i will...i have been backed up with work and such. be patient.

 

[johnd]

i will i will...i have been backed up with work and such. be patient.

Alright.