Too much?

[jcp988]

I wrote a blog on the book "Heaven is for Real" just wondering how much is actually true. I am skeptical of the book but I wanted to be fair in my critique. I would appreciate your thoughts on my critique!

Here's the link: The Thoughts of Schmurtis: Is the "Heaven is for Real" real?

Also your thoughts on the book are very appreciated!

 

[whatfor]

I can see where you would doubt, the problem with all these stories is unless we see it ourselves we are going to doubt.

I heard of three young children who visited heaven, they were around 4 or 5 , they were separated before they could compare stories and described the same unusual place ,2 from the same side and the third from a different position.

Some of the stories I have read are too far fetched for me, heaven is so real by Choo Thomas is one I found fake to me , but I could be wrong.

I believe some of the stories, but who knows.

 

[tturt]

I loved the book. (No, I don't believe many of the reports). I didn't read all of your info - I read as far as you wrote - did he go to heaven? no.

What's your basis - other than theologically and logically - do you support that later? Saying it's not logical is the same argument is made everyday for people not to accept Christ Jesus. What's your Scriptural basis? Is it our medical definition of what it means for someone to die?

They're going to make it into a movie. Hopefully, it will cause some people to give their hearts to Yahweh.

 

[gratefulgrace]

I have NO trouble believing in Heaven Jesus said it was a place for us and I accept that. I don't mind the odd testimony about a journey to heaven but I do have doubts about the proliferation of Heaven Stories Lately. I also know that there is a psychic who years ago had her vision of heaven and has a world wide following. Actually I believe she was the first person who described the tunnel and shining light experience but I am not sure. I will try to find her web page. My example is Paul who says he was caught up to the third heaven and saw things so wonderful that he couldn't even speak of it. It was enough for him to say it happened. Do you think the focus on these books and many others take our eyes off scripture and could be subtlely deceiving folks?

 

[jcp988]

Just to clarify, I most certainly believe in Heaven too! Well kinda, the Bible says we will have a new heaven and a new earth, so I'll be chilling with God in the new Jerusalem, not "heaven" as we think of it. But that's beside the point...

I just doubt that the kid went there... Doesn't seem to be biblically supported, or logically.

You comment on these books I think is interesting. Do they distract us from scripture? Well I think the reason these books get the publicity they do is because they are exciting! Truly it is exciting to get a 'glimpse" of heave, even it is a false one. Heaven is a place where we want to go, so it makes sense why we want to read about it. But I do think these books distract us from scripture in a way, at least they distract us from what we need to be doing now. I think there is a reason God doesn't mention heaven a lot the Bible, it's our reward, but it's not now. We have a mission now that we need to focus on. I think these books emphasis heaven, when really we need to focus on life.

Not to mention I do truly believe a lot of these kinds of books aren't theologically correct. I know good does come from them, but also harm comes out as well. We should stick to what scripture says about heaven for our theology, not what everyone who has some "vision" says about heaven.

 

[gratefulgrace]

I couldn't find the name of the lady perhaps she has fallen out of favour who knows Psychics come and go. But I did find this site. Do you think they are all having genuine God Led experiences. I don't. http://www.illuminati-news.com/000-spiritual/html/2007/0331a.html

 

[gratefulgrace]

Just to clarify, I most certainly believe in Heaven too! Well kinda, the Bible says we will have a new heaven and a new earth, so I'll be chilling with God in the new Jerusalem, not "heaven" as we think of it. But that's beside the point...

I just doubt that the kid went there... Doesn't seem to be biblically supported, or logically.

You comment on these books I think is interesting. Do they distract us from scripture? Well I think the reason these books get the publicity they do is because they are exciting! Truly it is exciting to get a 'glimpse" of heave, even it is a false one. Heaven is a place where we want to go, so it makes sense why we want to read about it. But I do think these books distract us from scripture in a way, at least they distract us from what we need to be doing now. I think there is a reason God doesn't mention heaven a lot the Bible, it's our reward, but it's not now. We have a mission now that we need to focus on. I think these books emphasis heaven, when really we need to focus on life.

Not to mention I do truly believe a lot of these kinds of books aren't theologically correct. I know good does come from them, but also harm comes out as well. We should stick to what scripture says about heaven for our theology, not what everyone who has some "vision" says about heaven.

Yes but many of these experiences make no mention of the need to repent and be saved by Jesus Christ's atonement. Heaven is not available to just anyone. So who is motivating these other seemingly God loving visons. Doesn't the Word say that even satan can disguise himself as an angel of light.

 

[gratefulgrace]

Just found another site a woman who had a NDE she experienced unconditional Love during it and came back working at learning how to Love like that. She didn't look to the Bible. And now she is teaching about vibrational healing and the science involved in that. NO mention about the Love of God or who God is or anything. We are in a very dangerous time and the world is becoming more and more spiritual and the church is picking it up and being influenced and it is NOT GOOD. I don't want to give glory to the devil, but if you are a strong believer check it out for yourselves. It is pretty sad. Jesus says NO ONE ( man women or child) Come to the FATHER but By ME (JESUS). And that is the truth. Many are bing decieved. I think all these NDE and heaven stories show that. We are being pushed into a one world collective belief system of warm fuzzies. gg

 

[whatfor]

Just found another site a woman who had a NDE she experienced unconditional Love during it and came back working at learning how to Love like that. She didn't look to the Bible. And now she is teaching about vibrational healing and the science involved in that. NO mention about the Love of God or who God is or anything. We are in a very dangerous time and the world is becoming more and more spiritual and the church is picking it up and being influenced and it is NOT GOOD. I don't want to give glory to the devil, but if you are a strong believer check it out for yourselves. It is pretty sad. Jesus says NO ONE ( man women or child) Come to the FATHER but By ME (JESUS). And that is the truth. Many are bing decieved. I think all these NDE and heaven stories show that. We are being pushed into a one world collective belief system of warm fuzzies. gg

These are sad cases, but the ones I like are those that see Jesus and come back changed, more on fire for God.

 

[Franny50]

I believe what the bible says about there being many mansions in heaven.Maybe we will all have different experiences.

 

[jcp988]

Yes but many of these experiences make no mention of the need to repent and be saved by Jesus Christ's atonement. Heaven is not available to just anyone. So who is motivating these other seemingly God loving visons. Doesn't the Word say that even satan can disguise himself as an angel of light.

Yes you are right, repentance is part of it. But I don't think that totally plays into it. Most of the stories I'm making mention of are about Christians (I know there are a thousand of non christians). So at least what I'm talking about are people who know (as far as we know) Jesus and accept atonement for their sins. So in that scenario repentance wouldn't play a part in Heaven because they are covered in the blood of Jesus.

You said the satan can disguise himself as an angel of light. You are absolutely right in that. I do suspect some of this interactions to be the case. However, since they are my brothers and sisters in Christ I like to give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm not going to make accusations when I don't really know the story. Until there is solid proof or they are doing bad damage to the body of Christ I don't think we should make any accusations. I say give them the benefit of the doubt, just take what they say in wisdom. We don't need to apply their "vision" to our lives, that just seems foolish.

I do like your thoughts on this! You're skeptical like me. Just as I've learned the hard way, it's really easy to step on peoples toes and hurt them. We should be careful to correct and critique very lovingly.

 

[tturt]

Since Yahweh is Spirit and we're His kids, don't you think we should be experiencing supernatural things/happenings/whatever word is acceptable?

 

[gratefulgrace]

Yes you are right, repentance is part of it. But I don't think that totally plays into it. Most of the stories I'm making mention of are about Christians (I know there are a thousand of non christians). So at least what I'm talking about are people who know (as far as we know) Jesus and accept atonement for their sins. So in that scenario repentance wouldn't play a part in Heaven because they are covered in the blood of Jesus.

You said the satan can disguise himself as an angel of light. You are absolutely right in that. I do suspect some of this interactions to be the case. However, since they are my brothers and sisters in Christ I like to give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm not going to make accusations when I don't really know the story. Until there is solid proof or they are doing bad damage to the body of Christ I don't think we should make any accusations. I say give them the benefit of the doubt, just take what they say in wisdom. We don't need to apply their "vision" to our lives, that just seems foolish.

I do like your thoughts on this! You're skeptical like me. Just as I've learned the hard way, it's really easy to step on peoples toes and hurt them. We should be careful to correct and critique very lovingly.

I am sorry my post came off as unloving I was in no way disrespecting the OP. This is just a phenomenon that I find very strange and unsettling. I believe there are true stories of divine supernatural encounters it is just the mass proliferation of these that has me suspicious. Like I said Paul wouldn't even speak about his experiences. I do not think they have any evangelical value at all. they are interesting stories but no one will come to faith through it IMHO. I enjoyed one many years ago that had the ring of truth as well but I was already a christian and could discern its veracity. However non believers hear this and lump it all together with the other NDE's. This was the point I was trying to make. Again sorry it seemed I was making a dig at someone. GG

 

[gratefulgrace]

These are the scriptures that lead me to believe that these Heaven stories although they can be encouraging to believers have NO evangelical value. It is the parable of the rich man and Lazarus. These are the end verses that show and example to prove this idea.

Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

If someone has truly come to faith through these stories I would love to hear about it. GG

 

[whatfor]

I think some of the stories can be used to show there is something after this life.
We had a guest speaker at our church a couple of years ago who uses his story for evangelism, we saw salvations after he gave his testimony.

Ian McCormack, Glimps of Eternity, Divine Revelations of Jesus Christ

 

[whatfor]

I just wanted to add some of the other stories on the site I linked to do not sit right with me.
The stories do not match.

 

[gratefulgrace]

What site whatfor? I would like to check it out. Anyway I daresay that the man who spoke at your church also offered a clear presentation of the whole gospel with scripture to back it up. It is by hearing the Word of God that we are saved not by heaven stories. If they are just a wake up call that there is something "out there" then you could argue that all NDE are valid which they are not. Above stated in love GG

 

[stormdancer0]

I think the boy may have actually seen heaven. Since he was only four, halos and wings would make sense. I don't think Jesus would subject a four year old child to the reality of majestic cherubim, or to the reality of the awesomeness of His throne. I think Jesus showed the boy heaven in a way that a four year old could process it.

I've not read the whole book, but any time a young child is involved, we have to be careful to separate the experiences of the child with the conclusions of the adults around him.

I once saw a vision of the rapture that totally changed my view forever. I don't claim I saw exactly how it's going to happen, but God used it to show me the depth of His love in a way I could accept it. We have to remember that the descriptions of heaven in the Bible are human descriptions of what cannot be described using human language. Therefore, it is only as accurate as human language can speak.

 

[whatfor]

What site whatfor? I would like to check it out.

This is the link Divine Revelations: Face to Face encounters with Jesus Christ, Mary K. Baxter, Rapture, free MP3s of Choo Thomas, Pilgrims Progress, Divine Revelation of Hell, Heaven is So Real, The Final Quest Rick Joyner, Bill Wiese,

 

[Mich7]

I think the boy may have actually seen heaven. Since he was only four, halos and wings would make sense. I don't think Jesus would subject a four year old child to the reality of majestic cherubim, or to the reality of the awesomeness of His throne. I think Jesus showed the boy heaven in a way that a four year old could process it.

I've not read the whole book, but any time a young child is involved, we have to be careful to separate the experiences of the child with the conclusions of the adults around him.

I can agree with that...I also think that perhaps if the child did have an experience that it's possible that he didn't necessarily recall the details accurately especially at such a young age...however I have to say that after reading it that there were several things that don't line up with scripture.

I was also disturbed by the fact that the mother made a ministry decision to lead children's church rather than praise and worship after the boy kept saying over and over that Jesus loves the little children. While I am aware that sometimes God can speak through children I feel like a ministry decision like that should be determined by the leading of the Holy Spirit not by the repeated words of a child. Reminded me too much of the woman that kept repeating to Paul and his entourage that they were servants of the most high God. Let's just say it bothered me.

I've read these types of books before...one that sticks out is Jesse Duplantis's Close encounters of the God kind ( not a NDE but a vision) and whether you believe his account or not it seemed pretty scripturally sound (at least in my opinion). Even the Shack which was fictional seemed closer to the scriptures than this one. Both of these made me want to pursue a closer walk with God...this one did not but actually left me somewhat disturbed. Perhaps it was different for other people and they actually got something of value out of it...but I can only speak from my own personal observation.