too much sin for heaven?

[LostWarrior]

Just forget about it and live your life. Jeez.

 

[UnamSanctam]

well then what about what the guy before me said? about a man laying with a man? if gay people stop being gay do they still not have a chance? i wish it was a little more clear for all these things

There is no difference between homophiles having sex with another man/woman, and normal people having sex outside marriage. Both is sin. But that doesn't mean that Christian homophiles "don't have a chance" per definition. It again boils down to "living in sin or not".

Just forget about it and live your life. Jeez.

Just keep your mouth shut if you can't take his concerns seriously.

 

[LostWarrior]

There is no difference between homophiles having sex with another man/woman, and normal people having sex outside marriage. Both is sin. But that doesn't mean that Christian homophiles "don't have a chance" per definition. It again boils down to "living in sin or not".

Just keep your mouth shut if you can't take his concerns seriously.

Yea. So I will keep my mouth shut, he will sin again, and he will get back into the cicle again. Grow into the idea that Christian religion lives because of sin. Just look around. Ask the local priest how many times he receives the same person and how often. Open your eyes.

 

[UnamSanctam]

Yea. So I will keep my mouth shut, he will sin again, and he will get back into the cicle again. Grow into the idea that Christian religion lives because of sin. Just look around. Ask the local priest how many times he receives the same person and how often. Open your eyes.

My eyes are open. Which is more than I can say about yours.

 

[LostWarrior]

My eyes are open. Which is more than I can say about yours.

You don't seem to disagree with what I've said nor do you seem willing to support your claims or even to counter-argument.

 

[vortigen84]

1. the bible says that if you repent all sins are forgiven right?

It says that justification is by faith.

What does that mean? It's like, imagine that every time you sin, it goes down on a criminal record. Sin is any violation of that principle taught by Christ, love God and neighbour as oneself. So, have you ever failed to keep it by, I dunno, cursing or hating someone or blaspheming or whatever? Of course you have. If God judges you by this record, you will be declared guilty and subsequently punished: hell. By default this would mean everyone ends up going to hell, because everyone has sinned at least once in their lifetimes.

The solution to this dilemma is that Jesus acts as a kind of representative on your behalf who never sins, yet as your representative takes punishment for your sin while you get credited his obedience to God. In this way you can be declared just instead of guilty. It's salvation-by-proxy, basically.

Now, who does that solution apply to? Not everyone; not everyone believes in Jesus, not everyone is going to heaven. However, some people when they learn about this way of salvation, they have a change of heart, they repent, they start moving in a different direction in their life, and they trust Jesus' righteousness credited to them to make themselves good with God rather than their own. That's the kind of person who gets forgiven. Not someone who's good enough, but someone whose saviour is good enough and has had a change of heart.

it also says that if you have sex or anything like sex before marriage you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

It does not say that if you have sex, or even premarital sex, that you will not go to heaven.

It does say that those who are sexually immoral will not go to heaven.

What is sexual immorality? In principle, it is any way in which you fail to love God and neighbour as oneself with your sexuality. Obviously rape would count, but God also takes issue with other things like homosexuality and prostitution and so on. People who are repentant yet struggling to maintain sexually pure are not dirty; they are simply struggling to show their true nature: a person who is clean. There's a world of difference between, say, a gay "Christian" who is proud and unrepentant of their sin, and a person who has like an addiction they are trying to get over.

While the Bible does not explicitly spell out every form of sexual immorality conceivable, it is explicitly pro-heterosexual marriage, so that is what should be done. Keep your sexuality in your marriage, and keep your sex life guided by the golden rule.

or even if you have unclean thoughts or lust after a woman before marriage or a marrid woman you will not enter. so. being a guy and human. ive already had sex before marriage and doen other things. i feel guilty about them yes and i have repented and i try incredibly hard to not do these things. but if i have already done them then i cannot eneter the kingdom of heaven right? so what would be the point it not doing it anymore?

Salvation-by-proxy.

There is no threshold or scale or whatever with regards to how much sin you can get away with. It doesn't work that way.

One sin is all it takes to be guilty before God and get yourself in hell.

So, that taken by itself, it's game over for everyone.

The solution, as I said before, is Christ's obedience to God being credited to you inspite of you, rather than your ability to be good enough for God.

Will you trust that, rather than your obvious history of guilt and failure to be good enough? Do you want to live a Christian life? Then you are a Christian and not going to hell.

Romans 7:22-25

For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.​

If you can identify with St Paul's statement there, you're a Christian.

 

[UnamSanctam]

Isn't this the wrong forum for this topic, btw? By moving it we could keep the atheists out of a debate they basically should have no position on.

 

[LostWarrior]

Isn't this the wrong forum for this topic, btw? By moving it we could keep the atheists out of a debate they basically should have no position on.

Our position is more logic, down-to-Earth, and leads to a more happy life than yours. And you don't see us saying "Oh yea that's wrong. Now shut up" without basing it (like you do, in case you didn't get it).
It's too bad that nobody listens to us, otherwise there wouldn't be this ammount of suffering from which people like you and religion in general feed.

 

[UnamSanctam]

Our position is more logic, down-to-Earth, and leads to a more happy life than yours. And you don't see us saying "Oh yea that's wrong. Now shut up" without basing it (like you do, in case you didn't get it).
It's too bad that nobody listens to us, otherwise there wouldn't be this ammount of suffering from which people like you and religion in general feed.

Troll.
No one said "That's wrong - now shut up". The only place where "shut up" is mentioned, is in my response to you where you ridicule the OP. I said: "If you can't take his concerns seriously, then shut up."
And no...no, your position does no such thing.

 

[LostWarrior]

Troll.
No one said "That's wrong - now shut up". The only place where "shut up" is mentioned, is in my response to you where you ridicule the OP. I said: "If you can't take his concerns seriously, then shut up."
And no...no, your position does no such thing.

Uh... You keep not supporting your claims...

Let me get this straight, if someone is in emotional trouble the best thing for them to do is going "Well, I will cry for this super-powerful God that I've never seen and hope he will save me" or "Well, ok. I made this mistake. I won't make it again. Now I'm a stronger, more powerful, human being"?

I hope you are not a therapist. Really, grow out of your hateful closed mind and start accepting that neither prayer nor religion work for this people. I've studied basic psychology at school; advanced psychology (all Freud's work and other therapists) at home; NLP; NL and biology. I've interviewed and worked with neuropsychologists all around my country. Do you know how much of them support God? ZERO. Do you know how many lives these guys saved compared to religious folks (with this I'm not talking about someone willing to offer emotional support - which is what I'm deffending - but instead people like you who tell them to go the Bible)? Do you want to compare the numbers?

Because, if you do, we can have a discussion on that.

 

[Skaloop]

Isn't this the wrong forum for this topic, btw? By moving it we could keep the atheists out of a debate they basically should have no position on.

Except we've been offering more practical and helpful advice. Definitely better than "don't listen to anything atheists say, just read the Bible" or "go to God on this one".

The Christians are basically discussing what is or is not sin, why we sin, what God thinks of sin, sin sin sin, without actually helping the kid.

Personally, if what he writes is true and it is bothering him that much, he may need to seek outside help. That could be secular, like a counselor, or Christian, like his pastor, in order to help him understand his feelings and deal with them in a healthy manner. And that is a totally valid position whether I am an atheist or not.

 

[UnamSanctam]

Except we've been offering more practical and helpful advice.

Definitely not all of you. Unless you count "Jeez, ignore it and relax already" as helpful.

Definitely better than "don't listen to anything atheists say, just read the Bible" or "go to God on this one".

#1: On this matter - an atheist having an opinion is pretty much the same as a blind man having an opinion on whether or not something is "red".

#2: Agreed - sometimes one's problems come from reading the Bible in the first place. That's what

#3 is for. It's not an instant cure-all, but in the long run - this is where healing, of any kind, comes from.

The Christians are basically discussing what is or is not sin, why we sin, what God thinks of sin, sin sin sin, without actually helping the kid.

Except these issues are at the heart of his problem!

Personally, if what he writes is true and it is bothering him that much, he may need to seek outside help.

That's never a bad idea when you're wrestling with something.

That could be secular, like a counselor,

Unless the psychologist in question is also a Christian, that might end up doing more harm than good. He'll just give him the same advice some people here have: "Forget about it - it's all in your head anyway".

or Christian, like his pastor, in order to help him understand his feelings and deal with them in a healthy manner.

And THAT is sound advice any day. Problems with these issues? Go see your pastor.

 

[LostWarrior]

Definitely not all of you. Unless you count "Jeez, ignore it and relax already" as helpful.

On my last comment, I reforced the idea of positive thinking given by one to himself, like "I'm a powerful human being. I made a mistake, and I will never do it again. This mistake made me learn something new that made me a stronger person". This is far more helpful that drawing in fear of hell.

#1: On this matter - an atheist having an opinion is pretty much the same as a blind man having an opinion on whether or not something is "red".

Not quite. The colour "red" doesn't contradict itself. I can find you over 10 moral passages in the Bible, each one having a contradiction, but my guess is that you're not interested.

#3 is for. It's not an instant cure-all, but in the long run - this is where healing, of any kind, comes from.

Most hipnotists and therapists nowadays don't believe in God. Neither do medics and other health-care providers. They do save lives, and you can observe and prove that.
Studies have shown that neither prayer nor any Holy Book or religion can do the same. Start supporting your claims.

Unless the psychologist in question is also a Christian, that might end up doing more harm than good. He'll just give him the same advice some people here have: "Forget about it - it's all in your head anyway".

Oh really? As I said before, I was once a lost, suicidal Christian and healed by an atheist therapist. In the middle of my healing, he made me lose my Christian faith once and for all and start taking responsability for my own actions, and living this life instead of worring about the next.
Guess what? Here I am.
Support your claims x2.

And THAT is sound advice any day. Problems with these issues? Go see your pastor.

I agree. Since he doesn't simply say "Now go pray and read the Bible, this may actually help.

 

[guitarguy93]

i did it again and cant stop. help!

 

[guitarguy93]

i need help!

 

[UnamSanctam]

i need help!

Go see your pastor.
And/or find someone, a man, from your church to be a mentor for you. Chances are, he's been through some of the same struggles you have, and can help you through. If nothing else, it's psychologically a lot different having to "own up to it" to another human being - which might help in the temptation-phase.

You are in my prayers!

 

[guitarguy93]

please help me!

 

[WilliamB]

i need help!

I know it's tough at your age but you really need to relax my friend. You have alot of life left and alot of mistakes and learning yet to achieve. It's important to understand one thing...you can NOT out sin the grace of God. You should be more worried about honoring the Two Great commandments (Luke 10:25-37) because when all is said and done, your heart is what you will be judged on, not who you had sex with.

On a side note, If more "Christians" spent more time focused on the two great commandments, and less time pointing fingers at "sin", you'd have less atheists as they too would feel welcome as that true love would line up with their hearts and they'd come running. Just saying...

Nice in dream I suppose. Hang in there!

 

[Skaloop]

On a side note, If more "Christians" spent more time focused on the two great commandments, and less time pointing fingers at "sin", you'd have less atheists as they too would feel welcome as that true love would line up with their hearts and they'd come running. Just saying...

No, I don't think so. Atheism is about whether God exists, not whether there's a focus on whichever commandment or sin or a feeling of welcome. "True love would line up with their hearts and they'd come running"? Just, no.

 

[WilliamB]

No, I don't think so. Atheism is about whether God exists, not whether there's a focus on whichever commandment or sin or a feeling of welcome. "True love would line up with their hearts and they'd come running"? Just, no.

Yeah, you're probably right. The love of God is limited to your small and dismissive thinking. Shame on me. On a serious note....I know why you're here. And I thank God that you are...He truly is awesome and beyond our comprehension.