Too Much Focus on Self in Our Worship??

[CyphaPSU]

I would like to know if anyone else has had similar feelings about this subject:

It appears to me, after analyzing lyrics, that many of our current--contemporary--worship songs (at least in the US) seem to put a lot of our focus on our own 'feelings' when it comes to worship. It seems evidenced by the fact that many of our modern worship songs have lyrics heavily laced with the words 'I,' 'me,' 'my,' 'us,' 'our,' etc. Many songs seem to be written around our experience in the Christian life instead of focusing on the person and character of God.

Worship, as I believe it to be defined, is the total emptying of oneself and giving it all to God's own glory (seeking the uplifting of God and His glory, not of oneself). Sometimes I just don't see this in good portion of the current worship style out there--a lot of it, to me, seems based on our own feelings involved with worship. I have to be honest, it bugs me when I hear people say something like "I just didn't get a whole lot out of that worship service."

It seems to be an attitude that many of us sometimes fall into: the attitude of what we get out of worship.

Maybe that's why "The Heart of Worship" was written.

I've also noticed that many of our modern songs do not celebrate the great doctrines of the Bible (like the Psalms do). But this is another issue.

(By the way, I am not bashing modern worship music; I actually like a lot of it, but I am also someone who enjoys the richness of older hymns)

Anyone else have similar observations?

 

[Rich48]

I am one that enjoys both the old hymns and the new-from the praise and worship type to more contempory. And yes, some (note the word some) of the newer seems to focus on self rather than God. Yet many who point out this out will open a hymnal and sing out loud an older hymn that contains bad theology with no thought at all.

Rich

 

[God Chaser]

i wasn't really around when the old hymns were there or when they still sang them...but somtimes i get alot out of new worship music(usualy) and somtimes not....i have trouble entering into hyms? i dono why...mabe its my generation...it can only start too feell gods presence when i read the words....but ym definition of worship is somwhat the same as Cyphapsu's, but a breaking of your heart...becuse god came to seek the lost, the broken...i think worship makes you broken to a point when you just can help but give all your ttroubles to god and all the things you have done....i dono if u understand that?

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[W. O. J]

i agree with that, there are a lot of songs around that talk abuot us instead of talking about god, but sometimes its good to talk to god about our own feelings, because he is always listening.

 

[Rich48]

i wasn't really around when the old hymns were there or when they still sang them...but somtimes i get alot out of new worship music(usualy) and somtimes not....i have trouble entering into hyms? i dono why...mabe its my generation...it can only start too feell gods presence when i read the words....but ym definition of worship is somwhat the same as Cyphapsu's, but a breaking of your heart...becuse god came to seek the lost, the broken...i think worship makes you broken to a point when you just can help but give all your ttroubles to god and all the things you have done....i dono if u understand that?

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One of the things in your post hits the nail on the head: "it can only start too feel God's presence when i read the words." Far to many people just open the hymnal and "sing," giving no thought at all to the words they are singing. Here is the third verse and chorus from a not as well known hymn by Leila N Morris (most hymnals contain only one of her hymns "Nearer, Still Nearer"). Read through the words of this wonderful hymn.

O Magnify the Lord with Me

Had I a thousand tongues to sing,
The half could ne’er be told
Of love so rich, so full and free,
Of blessings manifold;
Of grace that faileth never,
Peace flowing as a river
From God, the glorious Giver.
To Him give thanks.

Let all the people praise Thee.
Let all the people praise Thee,
Let all the people praise Thy Name
Forever and forevermore.

Both old and new can praise the Lord! In the church I attend we have 4 different types of song services-each one is used once a month. The congregation does not know which one will be used on any given Sunday as the order in which they are used varies.

1. Traditional-This one uses only piano and organ, and mainly hymns-perhaps a chorus.

2. Blended 1-This one uses piano, keyboard, guitars, drums. Half upbeat hymns and half choruses.

3. Blended 2-Piano, keyboard, guitars, drums. Half choruses and half contempory.

4. Contempory-Piano, keyboard, guitars, drums. All contempory music.

It does make for a nice mix of the old and the new!

Rich

 

[eutychus]

Good post. A lot of contemporary songs today are centered on man or emotion instead of God and his power. There are quite a few contemporary songs that have deep confessions of sinfulness, for instance, without any telling of how Christ is greater than all of that.

With that said, I prefer the older hymns (most of which aren't even used) put to new music. There are several contemporary songs that are solid theologically, but there is also a lot of crud as well.

 

[purplestars]

This is one of my biggest complaints about modern praise and worship music. The worship is about God, not us. If you compare modern songs with hymns, you'll see that as a major difference between the two.

 

[phnx]

When i sang hymns years ago i have to say there was only one or 2 that when sung i honestly felt like i was actually praising God.

I think the problem is not always in the lyrics, but the way it is sung or in most cases 'chanted' in a slow and dreary way. I think with modern worship songs we are trying to create more meaningfull lyrics to eradicate this 'religious' approach to worship...

 

[Rich48]

When i sang hymns years ago i have to say there was only one or 2 that when sung i honestly felt like i was actually praising God.

I think the problem is not always in the lyrics, but the way it is sung or in most cases 'chanted' in a slow and dreary way. I think with modern worship songs that is what what we are trying to eradicate.

You see, this is exactly what I was saying. Many (NOT ALL) who sing ONLY the old hymns just sing them over and over, forgetting about the wondrous messages they contain. It's kinda of "Ok, this is the song part of the service-so let's sing."

Rich

 

[Immanuel]

I think what comes out of our mouths start from the heart. I mean I would have to agree that a lot of worship songs are about ourselves. I guess that's because we always look to Jesus in times of troubles. Which is good, but it's also good to remember that it's not about us.

I mean I remember my friend who told me "I was really blessed by the worship." I'm like WHAT? Worship was created FOR God, NOT us. Our Wonderful Lord should be blessed. It's not about what we can get out of worship, but what we can give to worship.

Honestly, I don't know any hymals songs because it hasn't really been introduced to me. My church service is very modern/contemporary. However, worship is worship, it comes from the heart and the motives.

I would have to admit that I have been guilty of just liking a song because of the music. It doesn't really touch you until you've focused on the words and what it means to you. I remember one time when I was hearing "Light of the world, you step down into darkness...." I just broke down and cried just from that one line. I've heard that song many times over and over again and was starting to get sick of it, but when you start to think about how Jesus has come down to this darkened world to die for us. That's it.

CyphaPSU, I think you're right about the song "The Heart of Worship" My friend told me that the song was about this one church. People started coming for the music and they loved it. The pastor got really upset because the people's hearts were not right, so he took music out of church. After he did that, people left. I think like almost the whole congregation left. Then slowly people started to come back seeking after the Lord. It was only that when they started to truly worship our wonderful God. That's when they put music back into church and wrote the song "The Heart of Worship."

But anytime I think about worship, I think about Romans 12:1. This was something that God revealed to me when I first started to learn the guitar. I asked the Lord "Teach me how to worship you." And the next day, this was what he told me, "Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God -- this is your spiritual act of worship."

I hope that everyday and minute of our lives, we glorify him in all our actions. Worshipping in spirit and in truth. One thing that my pastor brought out is if "if we are here singing these worship songs and lifting our hands up praising God, and our lives don't match up to the lyrics, then we are not worshipping in truth."

One song I really like from Telecast is "MORE OF YOU"
Chorus goes like:
More of you and less of me. Jesus come and be a light in me. Burn like the sun for the world to see. Be glorified. I think their album covers all areas of glorifying God and also those times of trials.

But we really serve a God who is so worthy of our praises. How can anyone not be in love with him. How can anyone not want to serve him and worship him always. He's so worthy of our praises. To him be the glory always and forever!

 

[eutychus]

I think the problem is not always in the lyrics, but the way it is sung or in most cases 'chanted' in a slow and dreary way.

Yeah, I don't like that either! I really enjoy hymns to reworked music.

However, worship is worship, it comes from the heart and the motives.

Amen!

 

[Rich48]

I think what comes out of our mouths start from the heart. I mean I would have to agree that a lot of worship songs are about ourselves. I guess that's because we always look to Jesus in times of troubles. Which is good, but it's also good to remember that it's not about us.

Correct. Worship comes from the heart.

Honestly, I don't know any hymals songs because it hasn't really been introduced to me. My church service is very modern/contemporary. However, worship is worship, it comes from the heart and the motives.

There is nothing wrong with modern/contempory; but personally, I think it is a little sad when any church never sings any "hymnal" songs. If you do not know any at all, and if you would like to sample a few, try going to

http://junior.apk.net/~bmames/hymnsjs.htm

This is a good site, although not nearly as good as cyberhymnal, but that site is so huge (over 4,700 hymns) that you will get lost.

would have to admit that I have been guilty of just liking a song because of the music. It doesn't really touch you until you've focused on the words and what it means to you. I remember one time when I was hearing "Light of the world, you step down into darkness...." I just broke down and cried just from that one line. I've heard that song many times over and over again and was starting to get sick of it, but when you start to think about how Jesus has come down to this darkened world to die for us. That's it.

I can really relate to this. The Christian school my daughter attended last year used this song almost every week, and she got to the point she screamed everytime it came on the radio! Yet, like you, she will admit to the beauty of the lyrics of this song.

http://www.letssingit.com/?http://www.letssingit.com/tim-hughes-here-i-am-to-worship-gm7bhz9.html

Amen to the thought that Christ left the glories of heaven to come to this sinfull earth-and all because of love.

But we really serve a God who is so worthy of our praises. How can anyone not be in love with him. How can anyone not want to serve him and worship him always. He's so worthy of our praises. To him be the glory always and forever!.

AMEN!!!!!!!!

Rich

 

[keyz]

Matt Redman wrote 'The Heart of Worship'. Here's the story on the website.


The story behind the 'Heart of Worship' song

A few years back in our church, we realised some of the things we thought were helping us in our worship were actually hindering us. They were throwing us off the scent of what it means to really worship. We had always set aside lots of time in our meetings for worshipping God through music. But it began to dawn on us that we´d lost something. The fire that used to characterise our worship had somehow grown cold. In some ways, everything looked great. We had some wonderful musicians, and a good quality sound system. There were lots of new songs coming through, too. But somehow we´d started to rely on these things a little too much, and they´d become distractions. Where once people would enter in no matter what, we´d now wait to see what the band was like first, how good the sound was, or whether we were ´into´ the songs chosen.

Mike, the pastor, decided on a pretty drastic course of action: we´d strip everything away for a season, just to see where our hearts were. So the very next Sunday when we turned up at church, there was no sound system to be seen, and no band to lead us. The new approach was simple - we weren´t going to lean so hard on those outward things any more. Mike would say, ´When you come through the doors of the church on Sunday, what are you bringing as your offering to God? What are you going to sacrifice today?´

If I´m honest, at first I was pretty offended by the whole thing. The worship was my job! But as God softened my heart, I started to see His wisdom all over these actions. At first the meetings were a bit awkward: there were long periods of silence, and there wasn´t too much singing going on. But we soon began to learn how to bring heart offerings to God without any external trappings we´d grown used to. Stripping everything away, we slowly started to rediscover the heart of worship.

After a while, the worship band and the sound system re-appeared, but now it was different. The songs of our hearts had caught up with the songs of our lips.

Out of this season, I reflected on where we had come to as a church, and wrote this song:

When the music fades,
All is stripped away,
And I simply come;
Longing just to bring something that´s of worth
That will bless Your heart.

I´ll bring You more than a song,
For a song in itself
Is not what You have required.
You search much deeper within
Through the way things appear;
You´re looking into my heart.

In the chorus I tried to sum up where we were at with worship:

I´m coming back to the heart of worship,
And it´s all about You,
All about You, Jesus.
I´m sorry, Lord, for the thing I´ve made it,
When it´s all about You,
All about You, Jesus.
(Matt Redman, Kingsway´s Thankyou Music)

This extract is taken from Chapter 8 of ´The Unquenchable Worshipper´ by Matt Redman, Kingsway Publications.


If you look at CCM and think that is worship then you got the wrong. What you hear on Christian radio station is just songs about God. Some can be well classified as a worship song and others can't. That doesn't mean they are bad songs or anything though.

About the 'we, I, me, and us' used in songs. I really see nothing wrong with that. We are called to have a personal relationship with Christ. He desires intimacy with us just as much as we do with him. I can't really say I've ever heard a 'worship' song that focuses on us instead of God. I know some worship songs will state how we feel about God, but I don't think the focus entirely swings around. I've heard a lot of CCM that is like that but not worship music.

 

[Matt04]

I've read the story about 'The Heart of Worship' so many times... it's such reat story, and really is a great example of what worship should be about.

I definitely agree about the selfish aspect in a lot of our modern day worship. That's just the way America is, selfish, so you can expect for there to always be selfish aspects in some modern worship. But it definitely isn't all like htat... there are truly some great bands out there and worship songs. I think Third Day is one of the perfect examples. Every one of their songs is about God, not about them or anyone else. It's all to lift up and exalt God.

I'm not too fond of hymns, but I definitely see how they have great lyrics. Afterall, half of them do come from Psalms, and Psalms is a book of worship in and of itself. One way I can get into hymns is through Third Day, since they redone them sometimes.

Yeah.. I'm not a Third Day fan at all...

 

[Standyman51]

I try to avoid the term "worship service" because all that we do in that meeting is to be worship of some sort, and I do not like to limit the term to the music portion. Not only that, but worship is not the only reason for the music service. The songs do something that many do not think of, which is that they teach -- both good or bad doctrine. Songs have a way of presenting a truth (or a deception) that is quite unforgettable. David said in Psalm 119:54 "Thy statutes have been my songs in the house of my pilgrimage." Frankly, I wish music ministries made this a key verse in their mission statement.

The statutes, the Word of God, should be central to the congregational music experience.
Consider Col. 3:16, Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God.

In this verse, Psalms are first (the Word), hymns next (praise songs), and spiritual songs (in the spirit of true worship) are last. Psalms (the Word) generates faith and life, Hymns express that faith and life and spiritual songs allow us to worship in Spirit and Truth.

So, I believe that worship is a goal for music, but it must follow the tried path to arrive at that.

Stan

 

[Immanuel]

Thank you Keyz so much for clarifying that.

Thank you so much. May everyday of your life be a reflection of worship to our most wonderful Lord. In everything we do and everything we say.

Forever and ever to him be the glory!!!

 

[friendofthebridegroom]

I was talking to my dad the other day about this subject after reading a few of the posts here. He said the we kind of have to understand what "genre" we are putting songs into. We tend to generalize any song that we sing in church as a "praise and worship" song. But there is actually a difference between praise and worship I believe. Praise songs tend to be the ones where we are lifting up God and saying how awesome he is etc. Worship songs are more about our relationship with Him and drawing into closer intimacy with Him. I also do not believe there is anything wrong with singing about our "feelings" toward God. God gave us our senses, seeing, tasting, touching, hearing, and feeling for a reason. We are designed to experience and encounter God. There is nothing better than this and it is truly why we were created. To encounter the man Jesus in all His glory and enter into an eternal marital covenant with him. The beauty of God is something that we experience and out of this experience is where true worship is birthed.

 

[Immanuel]

I was talking to my dad the other day about this subject after reading a few of the posts here. He said the we kind of have to understand what "genre" we are putting songs into. We tend to generalize any song that we sing in church as a "praise and worship" song. But there is actually a difference between praise and worship I believe. Praise songs tend to be the ones where we are lifting up God and saying how awesome he is etc. Worship songs are more about our relationship with Him and drawing into closer intimacy with Him. I also do not believe there is anything wrong with singing about our "feelings" toward God. God gave us our senses, seeing, tasting, touching, hearing, and feeling for a reason. We are designed to experience and encounter God. There is nothing better than this and it is truly why we were created. To encounter the man Jesus in all His glory and enter into an eternal marital covenant with him. The beauty of God is something that we experience and out of this experience is where true worship is birthed.

Oh as you are speaking about the differendce between worship and praise. My pastor talked about it a few weeks ago. That there is a difference.


Praise is a response to what God has already done. Psalms 34:1
· Praise the Lord at all times.
· Feelings don’t come first. Do it first and then the feelings come.
· “Then the man bowed down and worshipped the Lord, saying, “Praise be to the Lord, the God of my master Abraham, who has not abandoned his kindness and faithfulness to my master. As for me, the Lord has led me on the journey to the house of my master’s relatives.” Genesis 24:26, 27. – Praising should always be in our lives because he is always good to us.
· Judah means praise and when we praise God, it releases spiritual powers on our half.


Worship is responding to who God is.
· Worship is not confined to music. It’s anything that exalts him
· Worship is a lifestyle.
· Worship is not for your benefit. (not your pleasure, but for God’s)
· Worship in truth. That means your lifestyle should be what comes out of your mouth. (In other words, your worship has to match your lifestyle) If not, then your worship would be a lie.
· “He said to his servants, “Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you.” Genesis 22:5. Worship is surrender (sacrifice)
· Worship is giving our best, not our half best.
· “Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” Philippians 2:9 – This means everyone will worship him one way or another. Whether it’s willfully or not willfully. Because confession is worship.
· Worship in spirit and in truth. John 4


Actually these are my notes from the sermon. He based it on "The purpose drive life." By Rick Warren.

Either ways, Jesus deserves all our worship and all our praises.

 

[keyz]

Great last two posts! So true..

 

[Greyshade89]

I agree totally. Worship is to praise God. Ive heard quite a few contemporary songs that seem to focus on.."I" and "Me". But I do enjoy the music lol*