Too many questions

[thunder_hawk]

I don't think I've ever really talked about all this before. It's hard to explain.

I don't know whether there's a god or not. There are times when I think there might be, because I've been in some bad situations and I still don't understand how things lined up so that I came through without getting hurt, so I think maybe there's something looking out for me. And sometimes I take a look at the world and think, man, no god would create something as crappy as this.

In some ways I think I would be better off if there wasn't a god. Even without worrying about sin and all that, I'm mixed up in a lot of bad stuff. Some of it doesn't seem so bad all the time, other stuff I know for a fact is bad, but either way I can't seem to change it no matter how much I try. Some of it I do to myself, some of it I didn't have any control over. I've tried to leave it behind a few times and somehow I always wind up back where I started. So, if there is a God, I'm not on his "good" list, and I don't think I ever could be, which I guess means my ticket on the hell train is pretty much reserved.

I went to church once for a youth thing, because a friend of mine wanted to go, but it was probably one of the most uncomfortable things I've ever done. I don't feel like I have anything in common with those people, and I stick out like a crow in a field of snow. If those kind of people are what God wants, then I'm totally screwed.

At this point though I guess I'm just tired. I'm tired of not knowing what the hell is going on, and I'm tired of all the crap in my life, and I really, really just want find a way to sort it all out. What I'm trying to ask is, how do you know if there is a god? All the scientific arguements or whatever for either point just go around in circles and wind up with the punchline, "Well, you can't really prove anything completely". How do you know for sure? And if there is a god of some sort, how do you know if he'd even want anything to do with you? Like I said, if I were god, I would not pick me and go "That's someone I want on my team." I'm never going to be perfect or even close, and there are a lot of things that I just don't think I can get out of. So, how screwed up is too screwed up for god to bother with?

I hope all that makes at least some kind of sense. Maybe someone has answers, maybe no one does, I don't know. Thanks for reading anyway.

 

[tapero]

.

 

[GeorgeWW]

God only deals with us screwed up ones. The more screwed up the better for Him. Jesus said "I came not to call the righteous but sinners." He came for the sick and the sinners (Luke 5:31,32)

One guy was possessed by enough demons to fill 2000 pigs once Jesus made them leave the man's body (Mark 5:13). Sounds like this guy was pretty screwed up to me.

Personally, I would never be good enough on my own to get any attention from God. I have to rely on the fact that He takes me as I come, screwed up.

praying for you.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Hi Thunder Hawk I think you have received excellent replies already. I will try to say what I can. I used to be mixed up in a lot of bad stuff too. I was really addicted to sin. In addition I struggled with loneliness, depression, and felt like I didn't belong anywhere. I immediately assumed that people wouldn't like me when I met them, because I felt so terrible about myself. So I started this Christian journey with some 'baggage' and didn't always fit in with other Christians, who seemed to be so cheerful and outgoing. But the amazing that is that God worked through that. He showed me that He loves each person unconditionally, and completely understands us.. He understands us from our own perspective.. there was a day and I was just in my room and I was crying because something bad had happened, and I felt like the future is definitely hopeless and wondered what's the point of living anymore. I didn't tell this to anybody, because I was afraid of the response. I wondered if anyone would ever understand all the pain I had inside for many years. And suddenly, I just knew; I don't know how, but I knew beyond any doubt that Jesus understands. That was the first time I really felt His presence in my life. I was SO amazed!! I don't know what happened but all that I was feeling just melted away, and I knew I was truly, completely loved and accepted. Even with all my sins. Even if others had rejected me in the past.

The truth is that God doesn't reject anyone. I know this from my life, and also it's in the Bible. Jesus said, "whoever comes to Me I will not cast out". There were people who were rejected by everyone around them.. prostitutes, tax collectors, sinners, lepers, the sick, the poor, etc...and Jesus, who is perfect, accepted and loved them all. Here is one of my favourite passages
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+7:36-50
see how people said that she can't approach Jesus because she's a sinner, yet He forgave her and accepted her worship.

Jesus doesn't wait for us to become perfect to come to Him. He takes us just as we are, where we are, so that He can change us...and help us...and show us real love, and real life, and forgive us of all our sins. His mercy is infinite. He will never ever say 'no' to someone who feels bad for what they have done, even if they don't know how to stop, even if they can't seem to stop. He knows our weaknesses! We can't surprise Him with them! in fact He works through our weaknesses.
God doesn't look for perfect people, but for anyone who wants to know Him, anyone who responds to His calling. He looks for the broken people, the ones who feel they have nothing else, the ones who feel hopeless.. all that is necessary is that we rely on Him, not on ourselves. We simply have to trust Him.

I'm Catholic and I've read about some of the Saints in my church. Many started out as great sinners, but surrendered to God, and He transformed them...eventually it's like they were totally different people, they just radiated with His love and peace. God is powerful enough to transform anyone in this way, if only they are open to Him and willing to cooperate.. even if they don't know how to cooperate, even if their efforts are very small and weak, He takes their desire and small efforts and brings them the rest of the way. I don't want it to sound like it's a walk in the park. It's sometimes a difficult journey. Sometimes there are trials. And it's not like we don't have to do anything, quite the contrary. But here's the thing...God gives us the strength and the hope to keep going. And He empowers us to be obedient to Him. We just have to try. (and when we fail, repent and try again).

Once I started to believe in God.. He started helping me improve.. He showed me areas I need to change, but He also offered me grace to actually make these changes happen. It's really a lifelong process! I'm not perfect yet far from it. I still sin, but God brings me back each time. And I know that God has been working in my life, and the pain and anger I had in me before, it's gone. It's not like I never struggle anymore, but when I do, I just come to Jesus and He holds me, and just loves me. And that is what encouraged me more than anything. I believe that somewhere deep inside, all of us long for something like that. After years of searching, often searching in all the wrong places (and getting even more lost and hopeless as a result), I see now that we can only find it in God.

You said that you don't think you're on God's "good list". I don't think God has one! He loves everyone, NO ONE has a ticket to hell reserved. Right until we die, we are given opportunities to turn to God. He doesn't give up on anyone.

I think one thing to really remember is that God IS love.. and that He is not like people. You can always trust Him, always count on Him.
He loved us so much He died out of love on the Cross. He loved selflessly. And as we learn to follow Him, we are filled with that same love, and learn to show it to others.

I'm sorry it was uncomfortable for you in the youth group. You know, sometimes I feel that way too. But I've found some very close Christian friends who are sincere, and real, and have taught me a lot about being a good friend. Somehow He brings people like that into our lives. And if you ever feel lonely and like you don't belong somewhere, well all I could tell you is that we always, always belong with God.

What I'm trying to ask is, how do you know if there is a god? All the scientific arguements or whatever for either point just go around in circles and wind up with the punchline, "Well, you can't really prove anything completely". How do you know for sure? And if there is a god of some sort, how do you know if he'd even want anything to do with you? Like I said, if I were god, I would not pick me and go "That's someone I want on my team." I'm never going to be perfect or even close, and there are a lot of things that I just don't think I can get out of. So, how screwed up is too screwed up for god to bother with?

well, it's impossible to be so screwed up that God would not bother with you. There are people who became great Christians who were much more screwed up than you or I probably. Apostle Paul, you know what he did before he was an apostle..he killed Christians. lol and look what God did in his life, made him one of the leaders in the Church! God is not like us.. He's not like people.. His ways are not our ways. Hey I wouldn't choose me to be on my team either if I were God. But - God would. He wants every person on His 'team' because He died for every person. And even if you were the ONLY person on earth, He's still die for you. This isn't something to make us feel guilty, but to rejoice that we have such a Merciful Savior, whose Heart is full of love for us.

As for how I know there's a God. You know I've read lots of great books...for example, Mere Christianity by CS Lewis.. I've read apologetics, I've heard the scientific arguments as well.. they all helped me solidify my faith and make it intellectual as well as something in my heart.
But it really started in my heart though. The reason I know there's a God...is not because of all the arguments... but because I struggled for years with myself, and with the world, and with my family and friends, and somehow He changed that, somehow He gave me hope again, and helped me overcome some of my sins. I couldn't do this on my own. I tried, believe me. And nothing worked. So if things only started changing in my life once God became a part of it, that's how I know He's there. I also know because He has answered so many of my prayers, sometimes in pretty miraculous ways. But in the end, it's just...trust...faith... not in feelings, not in miracles, not in philosophical or scientific or historical arguments.. it's just knowing that God is real because you KNOW Him. Because you have a relationship with Him. After a while, it became difficult for me to question His existence, and after some more time I stopped doubting altogether. Now I'd have to say that He's more real to me than anything ever was. You just get to know Him, as you'd get to know a Person. Eventually you just want to love Him back with all your heart, selflessly and completely.

And mainly all you really have to do to get this is just talk to Him, invite Him into your life.. He will never reject you, He *wants* us to know Him.

please read this
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2010:1-18;&version=31;

hope this answered some of your questions..
God bless

monica

 

[MoNiCa4316]

God only deals with us screwed up ones. The more screwed up the better for Him. Jesus said "I came not to call the righteous but sinners." He came for the sick and the sinners (Luke 5:31,32)

One guy was possessed by enough demons to fill 2000 pigs once Jesus made them leave the man's body (Mark 5:13). Sounds like this guy was pretty screwed up to me.

Personally, I would never be good enough on my own to get any attention from God. I have to rely on the fact that He takes me as I come, screwed up.

praying for you.

very true, God is especially merciful towards sinners, - the tax collector prayed "Lord have mercy on me a sinner" and was accepted, but the 'righteous' proud Pharisee who thought he had it all together.. he thought he didn't need God.

 

[salida]

Yes, there is a God and its not because I said so. For starters lets answer this question - Is the Bible true? I would read first Evidence that Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell - (this evidence would stand up in a court of law without a reasonable doubt). And theres A Case for Christ by Lee Strobel(a former athiest). Why you don't have anything in common with those people? Probably because they are born again?
The bible has hundreds of very detailed prophesies in it that has come true and more are being fulfilled today. No other book at all does this period.


Biblical Evidence – This is a very small amount of information
out of large amounts of information out there.

Internal Evidences-Prophesies that are confirmed with Bible;

mentioning only a few – but there are hundreds.

Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen. 49:10, Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Luke’s time period is 60-70 AD)

Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5, Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60-70 AD)

Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14/Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(60-70 AD)

Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 – four kingdoms are described in the interpretation
of the dream of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek – Daniel 8:21, 10:20/ and a fourth great kingdom to follow which was part iron and clay – which is the
Roman Empire – during this empire, Christ came and the church was established – Daniel 2:44.

Historical Accuracy

The Bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events of hundreds of years ago, yet
none of them has been proven to be incorrect.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents)
New Testament – starts at 25 years – between the original and surviving copies
Homer- starts at 500 years/Demosthenes – at 1400 years/Plato – at 1200 years/
Caesar – at 1000 years

Number of Manuscript Copies

New Testament – 5,686/Homer – 643/Demosthenes – 200/Plato – 7/Caesar – 10

Consistency – Written by 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years, and has no
Internal inconsistencies.

Claim of Inspiration- It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Tim 3:16-17). No other religious book makes such claims.

External Evidences

(Prophesies Outside the Bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never to be built again- and they haven’t.
Niveveh – Nahum 1:10, 3:7, 15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon – Isaiah 13:1-22
Tyre -Ezekiel 26:1-28

Bible before Science

He hangs the earth on nothing – Job 26:7
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago – some scholars think it could have been even 3000
years ago)
Note: Man only knew the above for 350 years.
Earth is a sphere – Isaiah 40:22/Air has weight – Job 28:25/
Gravity – Job 26:7, Job 38: 31-33/Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6

Documents that Prove Bible is True

Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles

Archealogical Evidence (Still adding to this list today- it hasn’t stopped)
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel



********Plus, maybe ask yourself, Are you a good person? www.livingwaters.com/good/
All have failed. No one can keep the 10 Commandments 100% of the time all time except Jesus did. He is the bridge between God and man and is the only spiritual solution to reconcile mankind to God.

 

[brinny]

I don't think I've ever really talked about all this before. It's hard to explain.

I don't know whether there's a god or not. There are times when I think there might be, because I've been in some bad situations and I still don't understand how things lined up so that I came through without getting hurt, so I think maybe there's something looking out for me. And sometimes I take a look at the world and think, man, no god would create something as crappy as this.

In some ways I think I would be better off if there wasn't a god. Even without worrying about sin and all that, I'm mixed up in a lot of bad stuff. Some of it doesn't seem so bad all the time, other stuff I know for a fact is bad, but either way I can't seem to change it no matter how much I try. Some of it I do to myself, some of it I didn't have any control over. I've tried to leave it behind a few times and somehow I always wind up back where I started. So, if there is a God, I'm not on his "good" list, and I don't think I ever could be, which I guess means my ticket on the hell train is pretty much reserved.

I went to church once for a youth thing, because a friend of mine wanted to go, but it was probably one of the most uncomfortable things I've ever done. I don't feel like I have anything in common with those people, and I stick out like a crow in a field of snow. If those kind of people are what God wants, then I'm totally screwed.

At this point though I guess I'm just tired. I'm tired of not knowing what the hell is going on, and I'm tired of all the crap in my life, and I really, really just want find a way to sort it all out. What I'm trying to ask is, how do you know if there is a god? All the scientific arguements or whatever for either point just go around in circles and wind up with the punchline, "Well, you can't really prove anything completely". How do you know for sure? And if there is a god of some sort, how do you know if he'd even want anything to do with you? Like I said, if I were god, I would not pick me and go "That's someone I want on my team." I'm never going to be perfect or even close, and there are a lot of things that I just don't think I can get out of. So, how screwed up is too screwed up for god to bother with?

I hope all that makes at least some kind of sense. Maybe someone has answers, maybe no one does, I don't know. Thanks for reading anyway.

awww i understand about the sticking out like a crow in a field of snow (((hug)))

nothing or no one is too screwed up for God to deal with, honest. We are his specialty (((hug)))

 

[aiki]

I don't know whether there's a god or not. There are times when I think there might be, because I've been in some bad situations and I still don't understand how things lined up so that I came through without getting hurt, so I think maybe there's something looking out for me. And sometimes I take a look at the world and think, man, no god would create something as crappy as this.

When God created the world it was "very good." We humans, though, have done a good job of stinking it up.

In some ways I think I would be better off if there wasn't a god. Even without worrying about sin and all that, I'm mixed up in a lot of bad stuff.

Without God and the moral law He asserts, there is no "bad," just "every man doing that which is right in his own eyes," which can involve tyranny, cannibalism, pedophilia, incest, homosexuality, etc, etc.

Some of it doesn't seem so bad all the time, other stuff I know for a fact is bad, but either way I can't seem to change it no matter how much I try. Some of it I do to myself, some of it I didn't have any control over. I've tried to leave it behind a few times and somehow I always wind up back where I started.

Actually, a man who knows he can't be good enough for God, who knows he needs help, is just the sort of man God can work with. Its the people who think they've got something to offer God, who have "got it all under control," who are the furthest from Him.

So, if there is a God, I'm not on his "good" list, and I don't think I ever could be, which I guess means my ticket on the hell train is pretty much reserved.

"With God all things are possible." God wouldn't be much of a God if He couldn't change you, would He?

You're right, though: without God you've got a one-way ticket to an eternity in Hell. Doesn't have to go down that way, though. God has made a way to escape such a fate.

I went to church once for a youth thing, because a friend of mine wanted to go, but it was probably one of the most uncomfortable things I've ever done.

Oil and water, oil and water. God says until you surrender to Him you live in darkness. When this is the case, and you walk into the company of those who are living in the light, it will be just as you discovered: Really uncomfortable!

I don't feel like I have anything in common with those people, and I stick out like a crow in a field of snow. If those kind of people are what God wants, then I'm totally screwed.

Well, this can change. God has made a way, through the death of His Son on your behalf, to bring you into His family. Count the cost, though. When you sincerely, genuinely accept the gift God offers you, you will never be the same again.

At this point though I guess I'm just tired. I'm tired of not knowing what the hell is going on, and I'm tired of all the crap in my life, and I really, really just want find a way to sort it all out. What I'm trying to ask is, how do you know if there is a god? All the scientific arguements or whatever for either point just go around in circles and wind up with the punchline, "Well, you can't really prove anything completely". How do you know for sure?

A guy asked my grandfather this question many years ago and he replied, "I know because I talked with Him this morning." There are philosophical, scientific, and historical reasons to believe in the God of the Bible, but these all pale next to the daily experience of God. I know there is a God, not because of all the arguments, and facts, and evidences, but because I have walked with Him through every day of the last thirty-four years (tho' He's had His eye on me for the last forty-one).

And if there is a god of some sort, how do you know if he'd even want anything to do with you? Like I said, if I were god, I would not pick me and go "That's someone I want on my team." I'm never going to be perfect or even close, and there are a lot of things that I just don't think I can get out of. So, how screwed up is too screwed up for god to bother with?

No one knows. God'll bother with anyone who'll bother with Him. Actually, He'll bother with you even when you rather He didn't. He's like that.

If you want to know more about what it means to be a Christian and how to become one, let me know.

Peace.

 

[solarwave]

Ill just add my own little on to what others have said. In the thread: http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7309663 Im going to slowly put down the different evidences for God that I have come across so if you just look through that for my posts (and any others) I hope it might help. Its a short thread so its not like some massive thing to look through.

It doesn't matter how many things you do wrong. It might seems at times that im a very good christian, but the trust is that I screw up a lot regularly, but it doesn't matter. You arn't accepted by God for by being good, you are accepted by God by choosing to follow Jesus and your sins are forgiven.