Andy centek

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TONGUES



This seems to be a subject of much controversy in the religion of today. This one says it is because the scriptures are not read as the apostle Paul said do.



2Ti 2:14-16 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord 1- that they strive not about words to no profit but (causing) to the subverting of the hearers




2- Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

3- But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.




2Ti 2:17-18 And their word will eat as does a canker: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.




2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God stands sure, having this seal, The Lord knows them that are His. And, Let every one that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.




2Ti 2:20-21 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honor, and some to dishonor. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honor, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.




2Ti 2:22-26 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strife.

And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Vain babbling s, useless words that can not be understood. Any one who has been in one of the Denominational buildings when this is happening will understand exactly what the apostle Paul was saying.

It is best to start this discussion by first defining what the word, tongues, means in the scriptures.

By beginning with Genesis we find the following given.

Gen_11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Notice that at that time the Earth had but one language. That language was confused, that is, their became many new languages; tongues. Continuing with Acts

The first place in the, so-called New Testament is here.




Mar_16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Here it is saying that they speak in a new language.

The Coming of the Holy Spirit



Act 2:1- 22 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. There came various languages speaking to Them. When this occurred it is told to us this.

And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other language (tongues), as the Spirit gave them utterance.

And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marveled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galileans?

And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaean, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What means this?

Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

Peter's Sermon at Pentecost

But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, You men of Judaea, and all you that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

You men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by Him in the midst of you, as you yourselves also know:

Here then is what the meaning of tongues is according to the Bible scriptures. It is the speaking in known given languages which occurred back in Genesis at the Tower of Babel. They could not understand each others language and thus confusion. This is what happens today in the Denominations that do this speaking in tongues.

1Co_13:1 Though I speak with the languages of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2Co_11:21 I speak as concerning reproach, as though we had been weak. Howbeit where soever is bold, (I speak foolishly,) I am bold also.

Gal_3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulls, or adds thereto.

Congregations that babble tell you they have translators. Who taught the translators? Does God teach confusion? Hardly; but man does. It should be obvious by now that babbling in unknown languages is not of God. Each one in the book of Acts heard what was said in their own language, not in one translation by one person.

May God grant through the Holy Spirit understanding about this issue.




Andy Centek
 
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Francis Drake

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I dont think that tongues, as heard today, is true tongues. I think it is either made up or from a source other than the Holy Spirit.
I guess you don't speak in tongues then.
 
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Francis Drake

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TONGUES



This seems to be a subject of much controversy in the religion of today. This one says it is because the scriptures are not read as the apostle Paul said do.



2Ti 2:14-16 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord 1- that they strive not about words to no profit but (causing) to the subverting of the hearers




2- Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

3- But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.




2Ti 2:17-18 And their word will eat as does a canker: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.




2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God stands sure, having this seal, The Lord knows them that are His. And, Let every one that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.




2Ti 2:20-21 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honor, and some to dishonor. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honor, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.




2Ti 2:22-26 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strife.

And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Vain babbling s, useless words that can not be understood. Any one who has been in one of the Denominational buildings when this is happening will understand exactly what the apostle Paul was saying.

It is best to start this discussion by first defining what the word, tongues, means in the scriptures.

By beginning with Genesis we find the following given.

Gen_11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Notice that at that time the Earth had but one language. That language was confused, that is, their became many new languages; tongues. Continuing with Acts

The first place in the, so-called New Testament is here.




Mar_16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Here it is saying that they speak in a new language.

The Coming of the Holy Spirit



Act 2:1- 22 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. There came various languages speaking to Them. When this occurred it is told to us this.

And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other language (tongues), as the Spirit gave them utterance.

And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marveled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galileans?

And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaean, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What means this?

Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

Peter's Sermon at Pentecost

But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, You men of Judaea, and all you that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

You men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by Him in the midst of you, as you yourselves also know:

Here then is what the meaning of tongues is according to the Bible scriptures. It is the speaking in known given languages which occurred back in Genesis at the Tower of Babel. They could not understand each others language and thus confusion. This is what happens today in the Denominations that do this speaking in tongues.

1Co_13:1 Though I speak with the languages of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2Co_11:21 I speak as concerning reproach, as though we had been weak. Howbeit where soever is bold, (I speak foolishly,) I am bold also.

Gal_3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulls, or adds thereto.

Congregations that babble tell you they have translators. Who taught the translators? Does God teach confusion? Hardly; but man does. It should be obvious by now that babbling in unknown languages is not of God. Each one in the book of Acts heard what was said in their own language, not in one translation by one person.

May God grant through the Holy Spirit understanding about this issue.




Andy Centek
Andy, maybe you should try to be a little more concise as I'm not going to wade through half the bible to find out what you are trying to say.
 
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SMITTY7000

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THE TRUE TONGUES – EVERYONE WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT IS SAID – NOT UNKNOWN TONGUES

LUKE 12 :11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: :12 For the Holy Spirit shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say. This is an event that occurs during the Tribulation and it identifies a group that were chosen before the “Foundation Of The World” as told in Romans 8:28-39 and Ephesians 1:3-11

This group of elect are the ones that will be delivered up to the synagogues [ Rev. 2:9 & 3:9 ] prisons, kings, councils and magistrates. They are delivered up for the express purpose of the Holy Spirit speaking through them to tell the whole world the truth and to identify the fake Jesus who is non-other than Satan posing as Christ. 2 Thess. 2:1-12

As we read the following verses hopefully the truth of the elect will become clear.

LUKE 21:12-15 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. :13And it shall turn to you for a testimony. :14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: :15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

MARK 13: 9-11 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. :10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations. :11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Spirit.

“published” _ G2784 kērussō Of uncertain affinity; to herald (as a public crier), especially divine truth (the gospel): - preach (-er), proclaim, publish.

“in that hour” – This is The Hour Of Temptation --- This is where the Gospel is proclaimed to all the world and it is The Holy Spirit speaking thru the servants of God. No Rapture for these folks. NOTE: With technology being what it is today there is no problem with everyone on the face of this Earth to be tuned in to the major event of that time.

REV 2:8 -11 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive; :9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. :10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. NOTE: The book of Revelations is written to give us details of those things that would come to pass in the last days and through the Tribulation. The Smyrna Church is one of 2 Churches that our Savior found no fault with because of what they knew and taught. The Philadelphian Church knew and taught the same thing. Rev. 3:9

ACTS 2: This is the model for this extremely important event. Everyone will be able to understand the words spoken no matter who they are or where they are from. :16 -18 points us to the prophecy of this event in Joel. [JOEL 2:28-31] Here in Acts 2 it elaborates a little further telling us when God pours His Holy Spirit out his servants [ elect], they will prophesy. To get these servants to prophecy before the whole world is why they will be delivered up to the synagogues of Satan and the councils, magistrates and kings all for His sake. They will herald the truth, cry aloud His words as the Spirit gives them in that hour.

This all speaks about a specific time when this shall happen. That hour will be a time when it is not important what comes out of our mind, but what the Holy Spirit is there to say through us, according to the plan of God. That is why we are not to premeditate on what or how we should say those precious words from God.

To be a part of this group would be a great honor to serve God in this capacity
 
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drjean

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My favorite verse in this matter: we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

It was a miracle of hearing here, not speaking!


On the other, doubtful that people have interpreters these days.
But I know of an old story told to me by an evangelist who, to preach the subject, also spoke in Russian to the group. A woman quickly jumped up and "interpreted" what he said but it wasn't correct at all! He explained what he said was Russian and gave the correct interpretation...

makes ya wonder.
 
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dreadnought

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Here is the scripture about tongues that stands out for me:

[27] If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret.
[28] But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silence in church and speak to himself and to God. 1 Cor 14:27-28 RSV
 
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We've been down this track before many times in quite a number of "tongues" threads and they all have ended up in a stalemate, or had to be closed because they ended up as two horse tit for tat races and acerbic personal comments.
 
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dreadnought

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We've been down this track before many times in quite a number of "tongues" threads and they all have ended up in a stalemate, or had to be closed because they ended up as two horse tit for tat races and acerbic personal comments.
But we have to talk about SOMETHING.
 
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But we have to talk about SOMETHING.
I have been praying in tongues for the last 50 years, and of all the posts against it on CF, and every Cessationist article I have ever read, and commentaries and histories that mention it, either its decline or continuance, nothing has been able to convince me that what I am doing is false, and that God does not understand what I am praying.

The bottom line for me is that if the Holy Spirit has used a whole chapter in the New Testament to give corrective teaching to a church group about tongues, then it is genuine for me. I have also learned that every person I know who has received the gift of tongues and has been praying in tongues, giving tongues messages in church along with interpretations, have enjoyed using the gift, and would not stop for anyone or anything.

So if people don't believe in the gift, then that is their right. I don't care what Cessationists say about it, or the "evidence" they produce that "proves" to them that modern praying in tongues is false. Nothing they can say can stop me praying in tongues. "A person with experience wins over against a person with an argument every time."

So if Cessationists can provide something new, other than the old, worn out chestnuts, then they are wasting their time with me. I would rather believe 1 Corinthians 14 concerning tongues, also the Early Church fathers right through to the Third Century, and the following centuries of different movements which had tongues as part of their experience. After 1,970 years, someone came up with Cessationist theory to explain the deadness and powerlessness of their church to turn people to Christ.

So, once again, bring it on!
 
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TONGUES



This seems to be a subject of much controversy in the religion of today. This one says it is because the scriptures are not read as the apostle Paul said do.
So, let's have a closer look at the Scriptures that you are quoting here.
2Ti 2:14-16 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord 1- that they strive not about words to no profit but (causing) to the subverting of the hearers
This is not talking about tongues. It is telling Timothy to tell those under him to keep to sound doctrine and not to go into doctrines that have no profit and subverting the hearers. To say this is about tongues is in direct contradiction to Paul's statement to the Corinthians, "I would that you all spoke with tongues". Paul goes on to Timothy to give him the example of the two false teachers who were teaching that the resurrection is past already. So to use this Scripture to disprove tongues is a misuse of the Scripture to prove a prejudicial point.
2- Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
This is the same as before. Paul is encouraging Timothy to keep to sound doctrine and to interpret the word of truth correctly. It has nothing to do with tongues. Another misquote of Scripture.
3- But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
This has nothing to do with tongues. It describes the profane and vain babblings of those who are teaching false doctrine, undermining the faith of their listeners. Those who pray with tongues do not engage in vain babblings, They know that they are praying in languages that God understands. Those who pray in tongues have their faith in Christ strengthened, not undermined. So this a totally inappropriate quote of Scripture to try to prove that tongues is false. Perhaps your misusing the Scripture could be the profane and vain babbling that Paul is referring to.
2Ti 2:17-18 And their word will eat as does a canker: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
I can't understand how you are using the example of these two to disprove tongues, when it is clear that these two were teaching false doctrine. Paul deals with this false teaching when he wrote to the Thessalonians, because he deals with that very doctrine in his letter to them.
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God stands sure, having this seal, The Lord knows them that are His. And, Let every one that names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
So what has this to do with tongues? The feature of Pentecostals and Charismatics who pray in tongues is that repentance from sin and a totally holy life is of paramount importance to them, so how could they be told to depart from iniquity just because they pray in tongues, if in fact, you believe that praying in tongues is sinful and at the same level as the works of the flesh in Galatians 5 and Ephesians 2. If so, you are accusing Pentecostals and Charismatics who pray in tongues of walking in the ways of the devil. Is that what you are saying?
2Ti 2:20-21 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honor, and some to dishonor. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honor, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
So, you are saying that those who pray in tongues are vessels of dishonour? Isn't the verse telling us to repent of all sin and live holy lives? Every Pentecostal and Charismatic I know has done that. and are truly born of God. Are you really saying that these people are not truly converted to Christ then? Because that is what you are implying.
2Ti 2:22-26 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart. But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strife.
That's what Pentecostals and Charismatics do. They don't regard tongues as foolish, and they don't ask questions about it. They just believe what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 14. Pentecostals and Charismatics don't gender strife. The ones who threw them out of their churches and accused them of being demon possessed because they spoke in tongues are the ones who gendered the strife.
And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
This is what Pentecostals and Charismatics do. They are gentle, able to teach, and patient. In other words, they live holy lives. I am shocked that you think that those who pray in tongues are in the snare of the devil, if that what you are implying.
Vain babbling s, useless words that can not be understood. Any one who has been in one of the Denominational buildings when this is happening will understand exactly what the apostle Paul was saying.
This is false teaching, and your misquotes of Scripture so far show that you are twisting the Scripture to say what it doesn't say.
It is best to start this discussion by first defining what the word, tongues, means in the scriptures.

By beginning with Genesis we find the following given.
Gen_11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
Notice that at that time the Earth had but one language. That language was confused, that is, their became many new languages; tongues. Continuing with Acts
Nonsense. The reason for the muliplicity of languages was to deal with the peoples' pride. Nothing to do with the gift of tongues.
The first place in the, so-called New Testament is here.
Mar_16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Here it is saying that they speak in a new language.
Not true. All the Apostles continued to speak and preaching in Aramaic or Greek. Paul knew Hebrew, Latin and Aramaic. He knew those languages already because he learned them as part of his education. He never spoke in any "new language", other than his gift of tongues where he said that no man understands him because he speaks mysteries in the Spirit to God.
The Coming of the Holy Spirit
Act 2:1- 22
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. There came various languages speaking to Them. When this occurred it is told to us this.
And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other language (tongues), as the Spirit gave them utterance.
And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marveled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galileans?
And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaean, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What means this?
Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.
Peter's Sermon at Pentecost
But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, You men of Judaea, and all you that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
You men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by Him in the midst of you, as you yourselves also know:
Here then is what the meaning of tongues is according to the Bible scriptures.
Rubbish. This was a one-off event to show that the Jesus the Jews had crucified was risen and is now Lord and Christ. All the previous Scriptures you have quoted are misquotes out of context. This is characteristic of false teaching.
It is the speaking in known given languages which occurred back in Genesis at the Tower of Babel. They could not understand each others language and thus confusion. This is what happens today in the Denominations that do this speaking in tongues.
False teaching, quoting Scriptures out of context.
1Co_13:1 Though I speak with the languages of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
Most Pentecostals and Charismatics I know who pray in tongues are very loving people, so to say that people who pray in tongues are generally unloving and there are useless noises is blatant false teaching and a deceitful use of Scripture.
2Co_11:21 I speak as concerning reproach, as though we had been weak. Howbeit where soever is bold, (I speak foolishly,) I am bold also.
Gal_3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulls, or adds thereto.
These verses have nothing to do with people who pray in tongues.
Congregations that babble tell you they have translators. Who taught the translators? Does God teach confusion? Hardly; but man does. It should be obvious by now that babbling in unknown languages is not of God. Each one in the book of Acts heard what was said in their own language, not in one translation by one person.
Generalised rubbish. From the teaching you have given and the Scriptures that you have misquoted shows me that you are giving false teaching. No one who prays in tongues would ever be convinced by what you have tried to teach in your post.
May God grant through the Holy Spirit understanding about this issue.
Yes, God has given me understanding about this issue through 50 years of experience, two personal testimonies where someone has prayed in tongues, including me, and the language has been understood by someone hearing it, a careful and comprehensive study of Christian history from the Church fathers, through the following 2000 years and the modern accounts and testimonies of good, godly people who have testified of the blessing, wonders, amazing events, when tongues have been spoken.
 
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Andy, maybe you should try to be a little more concise as I'm not going to wade through half the bible to find out what you are trying to say.
I did, and he is using a shoehorn to squeeze Scripture into his prejudicial teaching. None of the Scriptures he quotes relate to tongues at all! And some of the implications are shocking. He is implying that people who pray in tongues are in the snare of the devil, and not true converts to Christ and are in the same league as the two heretical teachers who were teaching that the Resurrection of believers is past already.

I don't mind debating and discussing with those with Cessationist belief if they use honest evidential material. I see those ones as honest and I respect their stance, even though I disagree with their views. But someone who deliberately twists and misquotes Scripture to make it appear that tongues-speakers are of the devil and not truly converted, goes over the top into something that is inappropriate in my view and I would be sharper in my comments than for the more honest ones.
 
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THE TRUE TONGUES – EVERYONE WILL UNDERSTAND WHAT IS SAID – NOT UNKNOWN TONGUES

LUKE 12 :11 And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: :12 For the Holy Spirit shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say. This is an event that occurs during the Tribulation and it identifies a group that were chosen before the “Foundation Of The World” as told in Romans 8:28-39 and Ephesians 1:3-11

This group of elect are the ones that will be delivered up to the synagogues [ Rev. 2:9 & 3:9 ] prisons, kings, councils and magistrates. They are delivered up for the express purpose of the Holy Spirit speaking through them to tell the whole world the truth and to identify the fake Jesus who is non-other than Satan posing as Christ. 2 Thess. 2:1-12

As we read the following verses hopefully the truth of the elect will become clear.

LUKE 21:12-15 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. :13And it shall turn to you for a testimony. :14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: :15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

MARK 13: 9-11 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them. :10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations. :11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Spirit.

“published” _ G2784 kērussō Of uncertain affinity; to herald (as a public crier), especially divine truth (the gospel): - preach (-er), proclaim, publish.

“in that hour” – This is The Hour Of Temptation --- This is where the Gospel is proclaimed to all the world and it is The Holy Spirit speaking thru the servants of God. No Rapture for these folks. NOTE: With technology being what it is today there is no problem with everyone on the face of this Earth to be tuned in to the major event of that time.

REV 2:8 -11 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive; :9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. :10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. NOTE: The book of Revelations is written to give us details of those things that would come to pass in the last days and through the Tribulation. The Smyrna Church is one of 2 Churches that our Savior found no fault with because of what they knew and taught. The Philadelphian Church knew and taught the same thing. Rev. 3:9

ACTS 2: This is the model for this extremely important event. Everyone will be able to understand the words spoken no matter who they are or where they are from. :16 -18 points us to the prophecy of this event in Joel. [JOEL 2:28-31] Here in Acts 2 it elaborates a little further telling us when God pours His Holy Spirit out his servants [ elect], they will prophesy. To get these servants to prophecy before the whole world is why they will be delivered up to the synagogues of Satan and the councils, magistrates and kings all for His sake. They will herald the truth, cry aloud His words as the Spirit gives them in that hour.

This all speaks about a specific time when this shall happen. That hour will be a time when it is not important what comes out of our mind, but what the Holy Spirit is there to say through us, according to the plan of God. That is why we are not to premeditate on what or how we should say those precious words from God.

To be a part of this group would be a great honor to serve God in this capacity
Nothing to disprove the modern praying in tongues in this post, or that it has to be known languages. It seems that the Scriptures quoted here are about testifying to unbelievers about Christ.
 
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My favorite verse in this matter: we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

It was a miracle of hearing here, not speaking!


On the other, doubtful that people have interpreters these days.
But I know of an old story told to me by an evangelist who, to preach the subject, also spoke in Russian to the group. A woman quickly jumped up and "interpreted" what he said but it wasn't correct at all! He explained what he said was Russian and gave the correct interpretation...

makes ya wonder.
Did he warn the congregation beforehand that he was going to speak in Russian to them? Were there Russian speaking folks there who could not understand English? Or did he deliberately speak in Russian to make it appear that he was speaking in tongues in order to deceive people in that meeting, and to deliberately belittle the person who gave the interpretation in faith? If that's what he did, he lied to the Holy Spirit by his deception.

If he did warn the congregation that he was going to speak in Russian, then the lady who gave the interpretation, although well intentioned, made an honest error. If he didn't warn them, then the lady who gave the "interpretation" was more honest before God than he was.

There was another shameful incident where a person decided to prove that tongues and interpretation were false by going into a Pentecostal meeting, got up and spoke in classical Latin. No one in that church realised that it was classical Latin, and someone got up and gave an interpretation by faith, believing that was tongues. I believe that person was definitely lying to the Holy Spirit, and if he has never repented of his action, then I would believe that the lie he committed could very well be evidence that he was religious but not a genuine believer in Christ. No genuine believer would be so unloving as to deceive good and godly people like that. It shows me that the guy did not know God because God is love. He might be standing before Christ and Him saying, "I never knew you. Depart from Me, you wicked person."
 
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Antig

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For me, i just dont see why God would want someone to speak in an unknown 'voice' when it has no benefit at all to the speaker! What are the benefits? The speaker is uttering noises that they themselves cannot comprehend. Does not make any sense at all.

Jesus spoke in a language that everyone could understand. He didnt stand on a street corner shouting out noises that people could not understand! There is nothing that says that Jesus spoke in 'tongues' as is heard today.

Did Jesus speak in tongues?
 
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For me, i just dont see why God would want someone to speak in an unknown 'voice' when it has no benefit at all to the speaker! What are the benefits? The speaker is uttering noises that they themselves cannot comprehend. Does not make any sense at all.
No benefit to the speaker? Wow!
Well, that shows just how far away from revealed biblical truth that the cessationists dwell doesn't it. Speaking in tongues is a wonderful way to be edified as a believer.

1Cor14v4One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.

And before you twist its meaning, to be edified simply means to be built up and strengthened. Only a fool would reject that blessing from the Lord.
Jesus spoke in a language that everyone could understand. He didnt stand on a street corner shouting out noises that people could not understand! There is nothing that says that Jesus spoke in 'tongues' as is heard today.
There are lots of other things that Jesus also didn't do, like go to church on Sunday, celebrate Christmas, Easter, Lent, praying to Mary and countless Saints etc. Do you really want to discus all the things that Jesus didn't do?
 
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No benefit to the speaker? Wow!
Well, that shows just how far away from revealed biblical truth that the cessationists dwell doesn't it. Speaking in tongues is a wonderful way to be edified as a believer.

1Cor14v4One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church.

And before you twist its meaning, to be edified simply means to be built up and strengthened. Only a fool would reject that blessing from the Lord.

There are lots of other things that Jesus also didn't do, like go to church on Sunday, celebrate Christmas, Easter, Lent, praying to Mary and countless Saints etc. Do you really want to discus all the things that Jesus didn't do?

Lol. Empty post by you! Lol
 
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