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tongues ended using verse 1 Cor 13:8

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by engrapho, Mar 22, 2002.

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  1. engrapho

    engrapho New Member

    I noticed on aforchrist33's home page that he used 1 Cor 13:8 for tongues ending. That same verse would declare knowledge has ended if that interpretation is used. I think you believe your right, and I once thought the same. But that would remove knowledge also!
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  2. zamar

    zamar Member

    Well verse 10 speaks of when the perfect is come, Then these things will pass away. The perfect (Jesus) has not yet come.

    I agree, if tongues have passed away, them so have prophecies and knowledge. And since they are both still here. Then so is Tongues.

  3. Navigator

    Navigator Pizzagator...

    the argument for 'the perfect comes' is that with the finalization of the canon that we don't need special revelation like tounges and prophesy.

    I don't subscribe to that...

    If you want to dig in with me, let me present an alternate view of the spiritual gifts, that might make things more clear.

    First Paul loves to list things, if he were writing today, he'd probably use PowerPoint to draft his letters. In 1 Corinthians we have a three part list, and then Paul goes on and details the last part of the list.

    1 Corinthians 12:4-6 [sup](NASB95)[/sup]
    The greek is:
    gifts - charisma
    ministries - diakonia
    effects - energema (also called phanerosis or manefestation).

    The weakness in this approach is that we have to go to other books to get the lists of the first two, and Paul is only dealing with the last one, effects or mainifestations, when he detail this.

    the Manefestations/Effects:
    1 Corinthians 12:7-11 [sup](NASB95)[/sup]
    What I believe this is talking about is one time effects/manifestations/miracles of God that come and go and are distributed as the Spirit wills individually for the good of the body. So if the body needs to have tounges spoken (a mixed language audience), then the Spirit might bid one to stand and speak in tounges. If the body required someone to discern spirits, the Spirit would manifest in one person the ability to discern.

    I believe this places the emphasis where it should be, on the working of the Spirit, rather than the ability of the person.

    The other two lists are found elsewhere:

    The Spirituals (charisma)
    Romans 12:4-8 [sup](NASB95)[/sup]
    These gifts, I believe are granted to the believer upon conversion, and these are the gifts that we grow in, and they are given for the edification of the church. These gifts work in concert to minister to the body.

    The last list, is a list of offices in the church, or ministries:
    Ephesians 4:11-13 [sup](NASB95)[/sup]
    These offices or ministries in a body will be filled by someone that is gifted appropriately, and they in turn are supported by the local body that is gifted to complement the gifting of the offices.

    Does that make any sense?

  4. zamar

    zamar Member

    I believe that you are now talking about something completely different.

    Spiritual gifts and Ministry Gifts are different from simple tongues.

    Tongues are a manifestation of the Holy Ghost in a person who is baptised in the Spirit. Spiritual gifts are given as the Spirit wills. Tongues are available to all.

  5. Navigator

    Navigator Pizzagator...

    yes... as the spirit wills...

    they aren't evidence of anything spiritual, other than they come from the spirit.
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