Tongues A Sign To Unbelievers

[Presbyterian Continuist]

**You are in the Spirit Filled/Charismatic Forum**


Opponents of tongues have often used the verse about tongues being a sign to unbelievers to try and limit tongues to understandable languages designed to bring the gospel to the unsaved.

Firstly, I would say that limiting tongues to this is absolute rubbish!

When the tongues were spoken on the day of Pentecost and understood by the crowd, that was when it was a sign to unbelievers. Those people knew that "these uneducated Gallileans" could never have learned the languages, and yet they heard and understood the languages and that got their attention that God was right there and present among them. Then when Peter preached the gospel, not in tongues, 3000 got saved.

There have been instances, and I know from my own experience two of them, where a tongues has been spoken (in the church I was a member in the 1970s) where a person spoke in tongues and a Ghanaian heard what was said in his own village dialect; and on another occasion a NZ Maori lady heard God speaking to her through someone praying in tongues in the Maori language.

There was an instance where a person came to Christ because someone gave a tongues message in her native Cantonese language telling her that Jesus will forgive her sins if she accepted Him as Saviour! That is tongues being a sign to unbelievers.

But Paul talks about tongues, in 1 Corinthians 14, as speaking to God because no person understands him. That form of tongues is not a sign to unbelievers because no unbeliever would be able to understand the language. It would be gibberish to him. In fact, if unbelievers came into a meeting where everyone was speaking in tongues, he would think they were mad! How can that be a sign to unbelievers? The fact is, it isn't. It is an intercessory or praise prayer language that God makes available to all those who are baptised in the Spirit, to use in their private prayer to God.

Then there is the gift of tongues, which is not the same as the other two. The gift of tongues is the manifestation of the Spirit given for everyone to profit by it. This is tongues to be used in the church meeting and must be interpreted. This is why it is important for a person to be sure that it is really the Holy Spirit who is manifesting this type of tongues in the meeting. The person cannot jump up and speak out in tongues whenever he pleases, because if not moved by the Holy Spirit, he is doing it in the flesh. Paul says that even though it may be in the flesh, he is still giving thanks to God well. The difference is that it is the Holy Spirit who initiates the gift and the person cooperates with Him in it. And the person giving the interpretation has also to be moved by the Holy Spirit. Not just any person can jump up and give an interpretation. It has to be initiated by the Holy Spirit and not by the person.

Most of the videos we see on Youtube and are used to slag off tongues, are the recordings of people ignoring the teaching of Paul and thinking that they can speak out in tongues whenever they please in a meeting. Also, they ignore the fact that one of the fruit of the Spirit is self-control. Out of control speaking out in tongues in meetings is in the flesh, and unbelievers and uninitiated people quite rightly say that these people are loopy. All they are thinking is what Paul said they would think! It's right there in 1 Corinthians 14!

But when there is corporate worship in tongues where people are speaking and singing to God in self-controlled praise to God, and then when a tongues message comes, everyone else quietens down and the one giving the message speaks forth, and the interpretation comes. Paul says that this can happen two or three times in a meeting. But when people are jerking, falling down, shaking, and shouting and yelling in tongues, then that is definitely in the flesh, and can even be spurred along by demonic influence.

The devil hates tongues and he will try and discredit it as much as he can. This is why you will see all these videos showing out of control hysterical behaviour along with tongues on Youtube just for the devil to show people that tongues is always like that. But you will never see a group of people praising and worshiping in tongues with self-control, quietness, reverence, and respect, with good tongues messages and interpretations coming forth. Oh no! The devil won't allow that to be shown at all because if people see that tongues can be used decently and in order, that will defeat his purpose

 

[now faith]

Cessationism has no solid Biblcal foundation.
I was raised Baptist and never understood the reasons given for this unbelief.
The debate will continue until the Lord comes back.
If the Bible was simply a text book, no one would propose such illogical reasons to remove the Spirit from the text.
It's far more than a book, it is our Sword, our weapon of Spirtual warfare.
If the enemy can get you to drop you weapon, he will take your shield.
Your Faith is listed above all to quench the firey darts of the emeny.
Cessationist have on the helmet of salvation, but that will not win victories over darkness.
We have to ask, what is the will of God while we are here on Earth?
Is it simply to be destroyed and stay out of Hell?
Is it to preach the Gospel to the lost, to give comfort to those in despair, pray and the sick recover?
Yes.
All the promises of God are Yes and amen.
When people teach against what is clearly provided in God's Word, they are teaching out of the will of God.
This is much more than a debate about thelogy, it is standing on God's promises.
Clearly the New Testament tells us the truth, and clearly the devil has been a liar from the beginning.

 

[Alithis]

Cessationism has no solid Biblcal foundation.
I was raised Baptist and never understood the reasons given for this unbelief.
The debate will continue until the Lord comes back.
If the Bible was simply a text book, no one would propose such illogical reasons to remove the Spirit from the text.
It's far more than a book, it is our Sword, our weapon of Spirtual warfare.
If the enemy can get you to drop you weapon, he will take your shield.
Your Faith is listed above all to quench the firey darts of the emeny.
Cessationist have on the helmet of salvation, but that will not win victories over darkness.
We have to ask, what is the will of God while we are here on Earth?
Is it simply to be destroyed and stay out of Hell?
Is it to preach the Gospel to the lost, to give comfort to those in despair, pray and the sick recover?
Yes.
All the promises of God are Yes and amen.
When people teach against what is clearly provided in God's Word, they are teaching out of the will of God.
This is much more than a debate about thelogy, it is standing on God's promises.
Clearly the New Testament tells us the truth, and clearly the devil has been a liar from the beginning.

where there is truth there will always be some hypocrisy protesting against it...
Over history though...the speakers of truth have never put the hyocrites to death but the hypocritical have often murdered the speakers of truth. Thus proving the love of God is not in them

 

[BNR32FAN]

**You are in the Spirit Filled/Charismatic Forum**


Opponents of tongues have often used the verse about tongues being a sign to unbelievers to try and limit tongues to understandable languages designed to bring the gospel to the unsaved.

Firstly, I would say that limiting tongues to this is absolute rubbish!

When the tongues were spoken on the day of Pentecost and understood by the crowd, that was when it was a sign to unbelievers. Those people knew that "these uneducated Gallileans" could never have learned the languages, and yet they heard and understood the languages and that got their attention that God was right there and present among them. Then when Peter preached the gospel, not in tongues, 3000 got saved.

There have been instances, and I know from my own experience two of them, where a tongues has been spoken (in the church I was a member in the 1970s) where a person spoke in tongues and a Ghanaian heard what was said in his own village dialect; and on another occasion a NZ Maori lady heard God speaking to her through someone praying in tongues in the Maori language.

There was an instance where a person came to Christ because someone gave a tongues message in her native Cantonese language telling her that Jesus will forgive her sins if she accepted Him as Saviour! That is tongues being a sign to unbelievers.

But Paul talks about tongues, in 1 Corinthians 14, as speaking to God because no person understands him. That form of tongues is not a sign to unbelievers because no unbeliever would be able to understand the language. It would be gibberish to him. In fact, if unbelievers came into a meeting where everyone was speaking in tongues, he would think they were mad! How can that be a sign to unbelievers? The fact is, it isn't. It is an intercessory or praise prayer language that God makes available to all those who are baptised in the Spirit, to use in their private prayer to God.

Then there is the gift of tongues, which is not the same as the other two. The gift of tongues is the manifestation of the Spirit given for everyone to profit by it. This is tongues to be used in the church meeting and must be interpreted. This is why it is important for a person to be sure that it is really the Holy Spirit who is manifesting this type of tongues in the meeting. The person cannot jump up and speak out in tongues whenever he pleases, because if not moved by the Holy Spirit, he is doing it in the flesh. Paul says that even though it may be in the flesh, he is still giving thanks to God well. The difference is that it is the Holy Spirit who initiates the gift and the person cooperates with Him in it. And the person giving the interpretation has also to be moved by the Holy Spirit. Not just any person can jump up and give an interpretation. It has to be initiated by the Holy Spirit and not by the person.

Most of the videos we see on Youtube and are used to slag off tongues, are the recordings of people ignoring the teaching of Paul and thinking that they can speak out in tongues whenever they please in a meeting. Also, they ignore the fact that one of the fruit of the Spirit is self-control. Out of control speaking out in tongues in meetings is in the flesh, and unbelievers and uninitiated people quite rightly say that these people are loopy. All they are thinking is what Paul said they would think! It's right there in 1 Corinthians 14!

But when there is corporate worship in tongues where people are speaking and singing to God in self-controlled praise to God, and then when a tongues message comes, everyone else quietens down and the one giving the message speaks forth, and the interpretation comes. Paul says that this can happen two or three times in a meeting. But when people are jerking, falling down, shaking, and shouting and yelling in tongues, then that is definitely in the flesh, and can even be spurred along by demonic influence.

The devil hates tongues and he will try and discredit it as much as he can. This is why you will see all these videos showing out of control hysterical behaviour along with tongues on Youtube just for the devil to show people that tongues is always like that. But you will never see a group of people praising and worshiping in tongues with self-control, quietness, reverence, and respect, with good tongues messages and interpretations coming forth. Oh no! The devil won't allow that to be shown at all because if people see that tongues can be used decently and in order, that will defeat his purpose

What I would really love to see is an actual study done where a person speaking tongues is recorded for 5 minutes and 100 people are asked to interpret what is said and see how many come up with the same response.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

What I would really love to see is an actual study done where a person speaking tongues is recorded for 5 minutes and 100 people are asked to interpret what is said and see how many come up with the same response.

**You are in the Spirit-filled/Charismatic Forum**

It's not going to happen, because no faithful, godly Charismatic is going to subject what is holy to him for the study of skeptics and ungodly researchers.
"Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers" (Psalm 1:1)

 

[BNR32FAN]

**You are in the Spirit-filled/Charismatic Forum**

It's not going to happen, because no faithful, godly Charismatic is going to subject what is holy to him for the study of skeptics and ungodly researchers.
"Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers" (Psalm 1:1)

Paul said this

“Quench not the Spirit; despise not prophesyings; prove all things; hold fast that which is good;”
‭‭1 Thessalonians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭ASV‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

**You are in the Spirit-filled/Charismatic Forum**

It's not going to happen, because no faithful, godly Charismatic is going to subject what is holy to him for the study of skeptics and ungodly researchers.
"Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers" (Psalm 1:1)

I wasn’t suggesting the test to be conducted by nonbelievers. Why do you assume this would be to disprove speaking in tongues? Wouldn’t you like the opportunity to prove that the language and interpretation is real to other Christians?

 

[now faith]

This has been posted before, but I guess people only believe in science when it true to disprove God.

 

[Alithis]

What I would really love to see is an actual study done where a person speaking tongues is recorded for 5 minutes and 100 people are asked to interpret what is said and see how many come up with the same response.

If they tried they would bevoperating in the flesh and youd get as many variations as there are flesh people.
These things are not of the flesh and the harder the carnal mind grapples with it the less it comprehends it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If they tried they would bevoperating in the flesh and youd get as many variations as there are flesh people.
These things are not of the flesh and the harder the carnal mind grapples with it the less it comprehends it.

I’m talking about 100 people who have the ability to interpret. Not just 100 random people.

 

[Alithis]

I’m talking about 100 people who have the ability to interpret. Not just 100 random people.

The ability to interpret is the holy Spirits ability not the peoples
And he gives it to whom He wills as the need arises
Not as you will

 

[lismore]

**You are in the Spirit Filled/Charismatic Forum**


Opponents of tongues have often used the verse about tongues being a sign to unbelievers to try and limit tongues to understandable languages designed to bring the gospel to the unsaved.

Hello Oscarr. I believe this is what the scripture means when it says that tongues are a sign to unbelievers.

About ten years ago my uncle and I were at an Evangelistic dinner meeting similar to the FGBMFI. We used to sit at a table with a brother called Ian and a fruit farmer called Charlie and a couple of others. This night farmer Charlie brought along some of his workers - Eastern European young men from I believe Romania, Bulgaria etc. The speaker after his message gave a closing prayer then spoke in tongues. The first tongue was a good French, which several people could understand. The Eastern European workers then all heard the gospel in their own languages, which caused quite a sensation among them and at our table. The speaker had never met these young Romanian and Bulgarian men and did not know they were there. But they were all saved that night because they heard the gospel in their own language, through supernatural tongues.

On the other hand I was at an AOG convention in Peterhead with a couple of others around the same time. There was a message in tongues given which no-one understood. One of the men I had travelled up with- a good friend- stood up and gave an interpretation. Now I know this guy well, revival is his thing, he longs to see people saved in revival. So he interpreted the tongue that a revival was imminent and the church was to prepare for it. I believe he was well meaning but gave the translation from his own heart.

So I would say that the first example was genuine supernatural tongues, the second was well meaning but disingenuous from start to finish. God Bless

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Hello Oscarr. I believe this is what the scripture means when it says that tongues are a sign to unbelievers.

About ten years ago my uncle and I were at an Evangelistic dinner meeting similar to the FGBMFI. We used to sit at a table with a brother called Ian and a fruit farmer called Charlie and a couple of others. This night farmer Charlie brought along some of his workers - Eastern European young men from I believe Romania, Bulgaria etc. The speaker after his message gave a closing prayer then spoke in tongues. The first tongue was a good French, which several people could understand. The Eastern European workers then all heard the gospel in their own languages, which caused quite a sensation among them and at our table. The speaker had never met these young Romanian and Bulgarian men and did not know they were there. But they were all saved that night because they heard the gospel in their own language, through supernatural tongues.

On the other hand I was at an AOG convention in Peterhead with a couple of others around the same time. There was a message in tongues given which no-one understood. One of the men I had travelled up with- a good friend- stood up and gave an interpretation. Now I know this guy well, revival is his thing, he longs to see people saved in revival. So he interpreted the tongue that a revival was imminent and the church was to prepare for it. I believe he was well meaning but gave the translation from his own heart.

So I would say that the first example was genuine supernatural tongues, the second was well meaning but disingenuous from start to finish. God Bless

It is amazing when it happens like that. I heard a story about an unsaved Chinese girl who attended a Pentecostal meeting for the first time. During the worship time, the guy behind her was quietly praying in tongues but loud enough for her to hear. The guy was not Chinese and knew only English. The Chinese girl heard the guy speaking in her native Cantonese, telling her that Jesus is real and she needs to go forward and receive Him as her Saviour. As a result, she did go forward and received Christ.

In another meeting, a person was visiting from Wales, and he heard someone near her praising God in Welsh. Afterward she asked him how he learned the language so well to be able to speak it without any trace of an accent. He said, "I don't know Welsh. I was worshiping in tongues."

We give prophecies in faith. It is easy to make mistakes when there is a strong passion about some aspect of Christianity, and the flesh can come through. Often God will give a word, but instead of speaking as it is given, the person tries to interpret what he is getting to be able to make sense of what he is saying. But even though it might not make sense to him, it will for others in the group.

When I was in a fellowship where it was normal to give prophecies, I would wait on God for a word, but I would deliberately not receive anything that had anything to do with the theme of the meeting or what anyone else had preached or shared. So when a word did come and I knew that it had nothing to do with what was going on in the meeting, then I had the confidence to give it.

But we had a "senior elder" in the church who used prophecy as a means of control - to put the name of the Lord on his own theological ideas. Looking back, and after listening to Derek Prince on witchcraft in the church, I realise that those prophecies came from a spirit of witchcraft control and not from the Holy Spirit who never manipulates, intimidates, or controls at any time.

I can't cite these stories, but I think I heard them from a message by John Bevere on Youtube.

 

[now faith]

When I get perplexed about the continuity of discourse around me, I put on a Derrick Prince teaching.
Ultimately the majority of time our problems come when someone seeks to control our belief, our means or in general our life.
According to Derick Prince that is Witchcraft.
I agree, and I work with the Public and have employee's, that know it or not at times behave in a controlling manner.
I have watched men of God deliberately acting in passive / agressive manner to gain a upper hand.
As much as I hate to say, it's certian Preachers who covertly try to impose their will on myself and others.
You are never betrayed by a stranger, betrayal is best served by someone you once trusted.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I have just watched an interesting video message by Nathan Busenitz in which compared the "Biblical" gifts of prophecy, tongues, and healing with current Charismatic practice. He brings up the old chestnuts about tongues being normal world languages, a lesser gift, public use only. And prophecy being by Prophets giving "extra-Biblical" revelation and prediction of the future.

What he misses out, quite cunningly, are the verses in 1 Corinthians 14 that do not concur with his view. He leaves out 1 Corinthians 14:2 where Paul distinctly says that when a person speaks in tongues he speaks to God and that nobody understands him, and he speaks mysteries to God in the Spirit. He twists Paul's words, "I would that you all spoke in tongues" to mean that he didn't really mean that all could speak in tongues, but he was just using a figure of speech to promote prophecy in the church. He also ignores Paul's statement that if there is no interpreter present, the person should speak to himself and God. He also does not deal with Paul's statement, "I speak in tongues more than you all, but in church, etc." drawing a distinction between speaking in tongues in the church and away from it. Mr Busenitz says definitely that the Bible clearly states that tongues is for the church meeting only and is not for private use, ignoring Paul's statements which clearly suggest that tongues is for private as well as public use. He also says that tongues is a sign to unbelievers, which would be true in the case of what happened on the Day of Pentecost, but does not explain how it could be when spoken in Christian meetings where no unbelievers would be present. The early church never had evangelistic meetings. Most converts were preached to outside of church meetings and led to Christ there and then brought into the church as believers.

He totally ignores Paul's teaching concerning prophecy in 1 Corinthians 14, which does not deal with extra-Biblical revelatory or predictive prophecy at all. It is a different type of prophecy that is for comfort, edification and exhortation, and that because of the nature of prophecy in that context, every word has to be judged. Why do the others in the church have to judge a prophetic word when it is accurate and equivalent to Scripture and should not be questioned? It just doesn't make sense.

But he is correct that there is widespread misuse of tongues and prophecy throughout the Charismatic churches, but then that is the public, Youtube face of it, and does not reflect the whole movement. It is usually the lunatic fringe that gets its face on the public media for all to see. Also, using unconverted linguists to record and examine tongues just speaks for itself! I don't see any genuine believers subjecting his holy and sacred prayer language to be examined by the ungodly. Psalm 1 says, "Blessed is the man who seeks not the counsel of the ungodly", so, Mr Buzenitz is violating a Biblical principle in using the results of the research of ungodly linguists to try and prove that the gift of tongues as practiced by Charismatics is false.

What I observed was a man using Scripture, the early church fathers, and observations of the misuse of the gifts of prophecy and tongues to form the basis of his teaching, using selected verses of Scripture and ignoring others to attempt to prove his point.

I feel very sad for the deluded people in his audience listening to and believe his biased and prejudicial teaching.

 

[now faith]

Cessationist always twist Schripture to promote a doctrine that cannot be found in the Bible.
Their logic is flawed in so many different ways, I honestly do not understand how people follow their teachings.
This misinterpreted message is what brought me to be a full Gospel believer.
I should thank them Bless God.

 

[Svt4Him]

John Bevere actually did a good study on this, which surprised me as I thought he didn't believe in it.

There are different tongues, some are known languages some are heavenly. The known languages can be a sign to unbelievers, the unknown but interpreted are for the body, the unknown and not interpreted are for our own edification, as it's by faith.

Tongues is a gift from God, so I think we should be thankful and try and understand it before we throw it away.

 

[Svt4Him]

 

[Svt4Him]

Did you catch it when he said there is a difference between a translation and an interpretation?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

John Bevere actually did a good study on this, which surprised me as I thought he didn't believe in it.

There are different tongues, some are known languages some are heavenly. The known languages can be a sign to unbelievers, the unknown but interpreted are for the body, the unknown and not interpreted are for our own edification, as it's by faith.

Tongues is a gift from God, so I think we should be thankful and try and understand it before we throw it away.

The Cessationist is adding to Scripture suppositions that are nowhere in the text. They come under the judgment of Proverbs 30:6.