tom delay ... going down in flames

Those people are hardly my heroes. Who knows where you get that.

The only thing I objected to was the suggestion that DeLay's actions were "not illegal." That's irrelevant. House members are bound by ethical standards, and the leader, of all people, should reflect them.

D. Scarlatti said:

Those people are hardly my heroes. Who knows where you get that, and who knows what a "quasi-pedophile" is.

The only thing I objected to was the suggestion that DeLay's actions were "not illegal." That's irrelevant. House members are bound by ethical standards, and the leader, of all people, should reflect them.

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You forgot that delay changed the rules so he dosent HAVE to be ethical anymore. God forbid we have any sort of ethics in the House.

D. Scarlatti said:

Those people are hardly my heroes. Who knows where you get that, and who knows what a "quasi-pedophile" is.

The only thing I objected to was the suggestion that DeLay's actions were "not illegal." That's irrelevant. House members are bound by ethical standards, and the leader, of all people, should reflect them.

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Especially when that leader and his followers mouth worthless plattitudes about the "ethics" of their political enemies.

Remember, when in doubt, blame Clinton for something...

awesome liver said:

no where in your post do you admonish delay for his actions. just because one side does it, does not make it "okay" for the other to do so and claim, "but they're doing it, too!" it's childish, irresponsible, and most of all, hypocisy at its finest.

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First of all, in neither story is there ANY evidence of actual wrongdoing. Secondly, the left's deafening silence when Democrats are caught actually breaking laws (Sandy Berger, anyone?) makes this DeLay situation look like a kid caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

So until there's some actual evidence, some PROOF that DeLay broke laws or deliberately violated ethical standards, keep on whining. It just makes you look even sillier in the end.

The problem with DeLay is NOT that his wife worked for him. To think that's what the huff is about is silly. Nevermind the fact that he used his pacs to fund other legislators, nevermind the fact that in Texas it is illegal to use corporate money for political activity, nevermind him improperly using his staff to track down Texas Democrats. Nevermind that men in connection with DeLay's pac have already been charged with money laundering and unlawful acceptance of corporate political contributions. And nevermind that 8 companies were charged with making illegal political contributions. Let's ignore the complaints he has abused his office for political purposes. Or that he improperly tried to win support from other politicians by offering them favors. The conservative public interest group Judicial Watch is even upset with DeLay. And it isn't like this is the first time he's been admonished by the House Ethics committee, he was back in 1999 as well. Or how about someone who won their seat because of DeLay's redistricting plan all of a sudden poses Republican rules be changed that if one is charged with a felony in a state and not federally they don't have to step down from power. This happened, of course, when a Texas Grand Jury is looking into DeLay and the possibility of him being charged with a felony.

Someone being admonished by the Ethics Committee THREE times in ONE summer is ridculous. Let alone previous warnings. It is obvious that a simply warning/admonishment doesn't make people straighten up their act. He needs to be punished and held accountable for his actions. Because if the LEADER can get away with this, then who is to say that they won't all follow suit. There is a reason we need to have a system of check and balances.

He has had a donor go with him on trips abroad, where at least once congressional gift rules may have been violated. Because House Rules say that a member, officer or employee cannot accept travel expenses being paid by registered lobbyists, agents of a foreign principal or lobbying firm- which was done for DeLay and his wife, his then Chief of Staff and her husband, and and aide when the center picked up a tab of over $70k while they were in Scotland in 2000 and again when he went to South Korea in 2001. The trip to Moscow in 1997 is only the newest one tacked onto the list of trips that DeLay has gone on to be investigated.

The truth of the matter is they need to contract an independant group to investigate DeLay, just as they did with past majority leaders. When you have the person with the most political sway under investigation, having those who work closely with him doing the investigation just isn't the best idea. It really just defies common sense.

And I think all the others that went on these trips and violated House Rules should be punished, not just DeLay. And the excuse of "not knowing" they were foreign agents doesn't cut it. Part of their jobs, or for their staff anyway, is to research the groups that offer them money to ensure they aren't breaking any ethics codes and/or House Rules.

There is so much more to the matter than just these trips being paid for in a manner that directly contradicts House rules.

So, its' no big deal that Tom DeLay does whatever the heck he wants, since Clinton's thingamajobber did something like that one time I'm sure everybody knows it but I'm too busy to find a link right now so QUIT SAYING THAT!

Did I get that right?

drboyd said:

So, its' no big deal that Tom DeLay does whatever the heck he wants, since Clinton's thingamajobber did something like that one time I'm sure everybody knows it but I'm too busy to find a link right now so QUIT SAYING THAT!

Did I get that right?

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Exactly. And it should make you proud to be an American that, when the going gets tough, when our backs are to the wall, whenever there is a case of injustice and wrongdoing, our leaders will be there, ready, willing, and able...

...to blame the whole thing on Clinton.

Nathan Poe said:

Especially when that leader and his followers mouth worthless plattitudes about the "ethics" of their political enemies.

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Ask Schumer about this, he is the master of this type of finger pointing.

*Sigh* This whole thread is laden with hypocrisy - on both sides.

Since this is a Christian site, let those without sin cast the first stone against DeLay, Clinton, Pelosi, and BUSH - who will, without a doubt, start generating hateful posts eventually. LOL.

I tend to lean to the right (being pro-life), but I also tend to look at a person's actions as a WHOLE. It's not my or your jobs to JUDGE & CONDEMN. I disagree with most od Jesse Jackson's liberal views, but also applaud his past actions to get hostages freed, & most recently - ignoring his fellow leftists to stand with Terri Schiavo's parents & support them. He's a great example of an otherwise middle-Democrat with deeply religious morals & love for his fellow human beings.

To the person who mentioned that they were ashamed DeLay was from Texas?(ala the Dixie Girls??? Blecch!) Tell me, were you ashamed when he nailed the embassy in Africa after he heard they would not release the five American children (yes, originally from Texas) who were found abandoned there by their adoptive mother a year ago? Mind you, other government officials ignored the children. When he learned of it, he POUNCED on the issue & got personally involved with bringing them home to the U.S. The missionaries who found the children were reunited with them on Oprah last year and PRAISED DeLay for his compassion. If he hadn't moved as quickly as he did, 2 of the children would have died within a week. God bless him, I say.

Now, the sad part is someone will post a response - well, who cares? He should've done that anyway, blah-blah-blah. See what I mean? People, please. If Tom DeLay did something illegal or unethical (which it doesn't sound like he did - as HUNDREDS of other people have legitimately abused the system - to the tune of MILLIONS - DeLay sounds innocent), of course he should be held accountable. No one is perfect & everyone makes a mistake or two in judgement.

However, that doesn't mean you CRUCIFY them (like the title of this thread?? LOL) because you don't like their party-affiliation??? I've even forgave Jane Fonda, for goodness sakes, LOL!

drboyd said:

So, its' no big deal that Tom DeLay does whatever the heck he wants, since Clinton's thingamajobber did something like that one time I'm sure everybody knows it but I'm too busy to find a link right now so QUIT SAYING THAT!

Did I get that right?

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No, you didn't get that right. Delay doesn't get to do whatever the heck he wants. Delay violated no laws, or ethics that have been articulated clearly (just general harping about ethics), he did not lie to federal prosecutors, lie during depositions in federal civil cases, lie to the American people or commit numerous acts of adultery all the while portraying himself as a moral leader, did he?

Conservatives don't blame Clinton for everything as some suggest here in CF, and neither do I. I do, however hold him responsible for a lot of problems we face today. Anytime I find someone pointing the finger at conservatives, I will never fail to point out that the liberals do not hold the monopoly on ethics.

Conservatives and Republicans are a minority in the politcal areas of the forum, but we have the same right to speak as anyone else. I am sure you agree.

Respectfully

SuzQ said:

However, that doesn't mean you CRUCIFY them (like the title of this thread?? LOL) because you don't like their party-affiliation??? I've even forgave Jane Fonda, for goodness sakes, LOL!

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I'd like to see him crucified as a big looney fake. I know that most politicians are corrupt. Comes with the territory. But when you set yourself up as Mr. Moral Majority-Religious Right-Protector of Family Values, it sort of behooves you to actually BE ethical.

charmtrap said:

I'd like to see him crucified as a big looney fake. I know that most politicians are corrupt. Comes with the territory. But when you set yourself up as Mr. Moral Majority-Religious Right-Protector of Family Values, it sort of behooves you to actually BE ethical.

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Exactly - thanks for making my point. The operative words are "Mr. Moral Majority-Religious RIGHT". So, you make it sound like the left is corrupt, and everyone KNOWS it, so they're not as bad if one of their side messes up?? LOL. Strawman argument.

Now, I would definitely have to agree with you if he had cheated on his wife, got the mistress pregnant, & forced her to have an abortion. If he, say, took "Oil For Food" money & spent it on palaces & AK-47's, etc. THEN we can talk about how he goes against his religious values, my friend.

He's walked the walk to best of his ability, as we all are trying to do. Making a lapse in judgement is "human". Somehow, I don't think Jesus would condemn him for using some money towards his family. The man ALSO cares about third world countries & has demonstrated this by supporting the Milennium Challenge. Again, look at the person as a WHOLE. Does that mean we overlook someone's mistake? No, but again, we don't crucify them either, lest we be judged for our indignation.

Remember, the only sinless human being ever to exist on this planet was Jesus Christ, which is why He was the perfect Savior for us ALL.

SuzQ said:

Exactly - thanks for making my point. The operative words are "Mr. Moral Majority-Religious RIGHT". So, you make it sound like the left is corrupt, and everyone KNOWS it, so they're not as bad if one of their side messes up?? LOL. Strawman argument.

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I'm sorry...were you responding to something I said? And are you sure you know what a 'straw man' is, because that wasn't it. EDITed to add: Unless you were calling your own argument a straw man, because it definitely was.

He's walked the walk to best of his ability, as we all are trying to do. Making a lapse in judgement is "human". Somehow, I don't think Jesus would condemn him for using some money towards his family. The man ALSO cares about third world countries & has demonstrated this by supporting the Milennium Challenge. Again, look at the person as a WHOLE. Does that mean we overlook someone's mistake? No, but again, we don't crucify them either, lest we be judged for our indignation.

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So, because he's ok on some issues, we can overlook his ethical lapses? Of which this latest is only the last in a string (allegedly).

Remember, the only sinless human being ever to exist on this planet was Jesus Christ, which is why He was the perfect Savior for us ALL.

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Okey-dokey.

Tom delay is not going anywhere.....this will pass just as all partisian mud slinging does.

BigToe said:

Tom DeLay makes me ashamed to be from Texas. He is a horribly corrupt man and needs to be dealt with and held accountable for his actions, as well as those who allow him to get away with the things he gets away with.

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Unfortuantly, Bush took care of that for me long before DeLay.
I hate being asked about living in 'Bush Country'!!!

charmtrap said:

I'm sorry...were you responding to something I said? And are you sure you know what a 'straw man' is, because that wasn't it. EDITed to add: Unless you were calling your own argument a straw man, because it definitely was.

So, because he's ok on some issues, we can overlook his ethical lapses? Of which this latest is only the last in a string (allegedly).

Okey-dokey.

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Nope, I was definitely calling your notion that "the left is ok when they screw up because everyone knows they're shady" argument an OBVIOUS strawman argument. I think most posters, whether Democrat or Republican, would agree with that definition, my friend.

Again, it wasn't even "unethical" lapse in the first place. I was only talking hypothetically - some think it's ok to crucify another human being over one lapse of judgement, yet forget the good they've done, too.

Besides, another news article with his statement has been released today. They clearly EARNED the money, so this whole thread is moot, end of story.

Bub-bye!!

SuzQ said:

Nope, I was definitely calling your notion that "the left is ok when they screw up because everyone knows they're shady" argument an OBVIOUS strawman argument. I think most posters, whether Democrat or Republican, would agree with that definition, my friend.

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Uh, except you aren't responding to my argument. I said most (left or right or in-between) politicians are corrupt. I never said that the "left" is ok when they screw up. If they do and they're caught, crucify away. I went on to say that if you present yourself as a defender of moral values, you'd better be moral, otherwise you look ridiculous. Sort of like William "Traditional Values" Bennett and his gambling addiction. Now he's a joke. Axiomatic.

So, like I said, straw man.

Again, it wasn't even "unethical" lapse in the first place. I was only talking hypothetically - some think it's ok to crucify another human being over one lapse of judgement, yet forget the good they've done, too.

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Good doesn't cancel out bad. If the pope was caught buggering young boys, no-one would remember his charity to the poor (assuming there was any).

Besides, another news article with his statement has been released today. They clearly EARNED the money, so this whole thread is moot, end of story.

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Wow. End of story? I assume you're referring to his 'angry dismissals'. Hehe, somehow I doubt that's the end of it. He's been in ethical trouble before. Once a corrupt politician, always a corrupt politican.

I don't think it could happen to a more deserving guy.

Except maybe the President.

tom delay ... going down in flames

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He's going down so fast that the flames aren't from infamy but rather from friction.