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EDIT: okay, I have attempted to write a reply several times from scratch now. And I just got to the point where I just feel that talking to you will get me nowhere. Thank you for reminding me why I dont' like humanity.
Hmm, are there any Christians who believed in the scriptures before coming to know them? How silly would that be. I never believed in a God, until a few years back so He had to convince me. He proves He is worthy of trust by prophesy. Can anyone other than God predict His own crucifixion1000 yrs before it happened and 500 yrs before the gruesome practice was invented? Let me know next time someone brings the dead back to life after a few days. Who can conquer death by predicting his resurrection. On and on it goes. You pick the one that stirs you the most. There are hundreds of fulfilled prophesies, and none failed. Care to figure the odds of just one of these happening by chance? It ironically takes a leap of faith to reject Him once you are willing to come to know Him. I have learned that one can only point someone in the right direction. Everything else is up to them personally. If you are willing, the truth is jaw dropping.
Prophecies that are only mentioned and then "fullfilled" in the same book that makes them, are not worth much of anything as evidence, and certainly cannot be shown to be valid as prophecy. We have no way of knowing if they were written after the fact.
I have a book. It says that I will earn a million dollars. Later on it goes onto desribe how I won that million dollars and lived happily ever after.
My little book has just as much evidence behind it as your Bible.
hey thereHmm, are there any Christians who believed in the scriptures before coming to know them? How silly would that be. I never believed in a God, until a few years back so He had to convince me. He proves He is worthy of trust by prophesy. Can anyone other than God predict His own crucifixion1000 yrs before it happened and 500 yrs before the gruesome practice was invented? Let me know next time someone brings the dead back to life after a few days. Who can conquer death by predicting his resurrection. On and on it goes. You pick the one that stirs you the most. There are hundreds of fulfilled prophesies, and none failed. Care to figure the odds of just one of these happening by chance? It ironically takes a leap of faith to reject Him once you are willing to come to know Him. I have learned that one can only point someone in the right direction. Everything else is up to them personally. If you are willing, the truth is jaw dropping.
I am not called to convince or convert you, but I will give you a good place to start. There is no link that has the missing piece everyone wants for several reasons. We are to be willing to choose Him or not. We are to become informed and come to know Him relationally. Until this is done, His message, means, nature and timing, remain obscure. This is why 99 out of 100 Christians do not know when His sacrifice was. It's only the most important day in human history. We don't even know His name, so how are we to know Him? You must be willing. Simple as that. He doesn't appear and move the sun from side to side because that would eliminate choice. There is so much to learn so the journey is long, but well worth it. The best place to start, IMO, is with Craig Winn.I always listen to other peopl's arguments. If you truely want to try and convince me then go ahead. You say you have proof, I am inclined not to believe you but I feel like you have more grounds than all those other people that tried to convert me. However it is unlikely that I will ever be converted(But I never say never)
EDIT: sorry, I'm not very clear tonight. My head is kind of messed up. Alot of stuff happened tonight.
Bet your professor didn't call the Messiah by His name. I bet he said "Jesus". I also bet that every one of your translations replaced Yahuweh's name with "Lord" 7000 times. Do not trust man. We are not worthy of it.hey there
you know...I know where you are coming from..but proof...that jesus raised lazareth from the dead...or that any of the bible isn't just fables. I am not saying it is fables...I am saying..show me the proof. I would LOVE to see it.
Do not assume my icon..means that I do not know Jesus personally or that I have no knowledge of the scriptures...I know them very well having studied them since I was old enough to read them and comprehend them which started when my pastor gave me my first pretty white leatherette covered..standard version of the King James version or my first good new for modern man..or the six different translations sitting on my book shelves. *grin* I was a religion major at the University of Cape Town
ProfesorS you mean. It depended on which professor of which religion was speaking. The Rabbi who was called upon to teach us about Judiasm did refer to Jesus as the Messiah, though he argued that he was not. And yes everyone of my Christian professors called him Messiah or Lord or Jesus Christ.Bet your professor didn't call the Messiah by His name. I bet he said "Jesus". I also bet that every one of your translations replaced Yahuweh's name with "Lord" 7000 times. Do not trust man. We are not worthy of it.
The whole prophesy thing, to me, is kind of baffling. I bet, if we asked Sydney Omar to do some predictions about what would happen in the world, asked him to put it in a book, then waited 2,006 years, most of the prophesies would be found to be true. I'm not about to claim Sydney Omar with being a prophet.
ProfesorS you mean. It depended on which professor of which religion was speaking.
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob has one name, so your sentence is silly, really.
The Rabbi who was called upon to teach us about Judiasm did refer to Jesus as the Messiah, though he argued that he was not. And yes everyone of my Christian professors called him Messiah or Lord or Jesus Christ.
His name is not Lord, Jesus, or Christ. Did any of them tell you that Yahuweh signed His name 7000 times, and the Messiahs name is Yahushua? Of coarse not. Some teacher. Do your Bibles report these names? Men are ignorant. Yahuweh is brilliant. I suggest trusting Him.
But that is side stepping the issue. Show me your proof or stop saying there is some. You most certainly have my understanding if you say your proof is in what you believe because for YOU that is enough for you to believe...but to say there is proof to be had, is just theatrics.
Ah...yeah...just as I thought...no proof! *sigh* onto the next oneRead the link I provided and get back to me. Peace. Gotta go . Check back later
You are not very informed. The Septuagint was written in Africa around 250-275 BCE. Therefore, if it has a prophesy of a first century CE fulfillment,.......
You gotta do beter than that.
I would like to ask a question concerning that.
Ezkeiel 39:12 "For seven months the house of Israel will be burying Them, in order to Cleanse/purify the land. 13 "Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified," says the 'Adonay Y@hovih.Revelation 11:17 saying, `We give thanks to Thee, O Lord/ kurie <2962> God/qeoV <2316>, the Almighty/Shadday; who art, and who wast, and who art coming, because Thou hast taken Thy great power and didst reign;
Keep in mind that Yahuweh's litmus test is stiff. One error and you are gone.
What prophecies/predictions are those? You mean this one as predicted by Peter?That is a strict litmus test, which would rule out Jesus/God as a credible prophet, since a number of predictions in the Bible haven't happened.
And I would like a response to this post:1 Peter 4:7 But the End of ALL things is nigh at hand; therefore be sober-minded and watchful in your prayers.
Matthew 24:1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple [#2411].
Ezkeiel 39:12 "For seven months the house of Israel will be burying Them, in order to Cleanse/purify the land. 13 "Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified," says the 'Adonay Y@hovih.Revelation 11:17 saying, `We give thanks to Thee, O Lord/ kurie <2962> God/qeoV <2316>, the Almighty/Shadday; who art, and who wast, and who art coming, because Thou hast taken Thy great power and didst reign;
I understand. But in my humble view, Revelation "symbolically" appears to concern the OC Nations of Israel and Judah and why I want to use the Hebrew words used for the Lord/GoD in Revelation.Well, we've yet to have a world leader or a one goverment world, I don't see Isreal realizing and apologizing that they're at fault for Jesus being crucified, and maybe I'm not looking closely enough, but Satan hasn't marked the forehead and/or right hand of all of those who aren't Christian.
Exodus 6:3 and I appear unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God/'el Almighty/Shadday; as to My name the LORD/Y@hovah, I have not been known to them;Ezkeiel 39:12 "For seven months the house of Israel will be burying Them, in order to Cleanse/purify the land. 13 "Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified," says the 'Adonay Y@hovih.
Revelation 11:17 saying, `We give thanks to Thee, O Lord/ kurie <2962> God/qeoV <2316>, the Almighty/Shadday; who art, and who wast, and who art coming, because Thou hast taken Thy great power and didst reign;
[=quote/alhannah]
Anyway it was of the editorial view that we can tolerate a religion but not necessarily respect that religion. Or not necessarily respect parts of that religion.
Is this the common view point that secular's are becoming to take on board?
[/unquote]
Speaking for myself; yep.
In Reason:
Irrev.Bill
Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus
I understand. But in my humble view, Revelation "symbolically" appears to concern the OC Nations of Israel and Judah
What Hebrew names for the LORD/GOD would apply in revelation 11:17? Thanks.
Exodus 6:3 and I appear unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God/'el Almighty/Shadday; as to My name the LORD/Y@hovah, I have not been known to them;Ezkeiel 39:12 "For seven months the house of Israel will be burying Them, in order to Cleanse/purify the land. 13 "Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified," says the 'Adonay Y@hovih.Revelation 11:17 saying, `We give thanks to Thee, O Lord/ kurie <2962> God/qeoV <2316>, the Almighty/Shadday; who art, and who wast, and who art coming, because Thou hast taken Thy great power and didst reign;
edit to add: I also made a topic on this for the Orthodox Jews to help out:
http://www.christianforums.com/t3732167-question-of-jews-on-the-name-of-the-lord.html
Well, the "Kingdom" of the World belong to the Jews of Judah at that time. You have to put yourself as an "OC Hebrew Jew" back in that time when reading the Bible. At least that is what I do.Which is the other problem with these so-called prophecies... They're so vauge, that if they've happened or not is a subject of debate. Some look at the prophecy and say that the UN qualifies, other people (like me) read the passage and think it quite clearly says that the world will be ruled by a singular person, who has the mark of the beast.
I just think the more they're examined, the more fallible they become.
(NKJV) Ezekiel 7:1 Moreover the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 2 "And you, son of man, thus says the Lord GOD to the LAND of Israel: 'An end! The end has come upon the four corners of the LAND. 3 Now the end [has come] upon you, And I will send My anger against you; I will judge you according to your ways, And I will repay you for all your abominations.Acts 1:6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, "Lord, will You at this time restore the Kingdom to Israel?"
Reve 20:7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the LAND, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number [is] as the sand of the sea
I would like to ask a question concerning that.
What Hebrew names for the LORD/GOD would apply in revelation 11:17? Thanks.
Exodus 6:3 and I appear unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God/'el Almighty/Shadday; as to My name the LORD/Y@hovah, I have not been known to them;Ezkeiel 39:12 "For seven months the house of Israel will be burying Them, in order to Cleanse/purify the land. 13 "Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified," says the 'Adonay Y@hovih.
edit to add: I also made a topic on this for the Orthodox Jews to help out:
http://www.christianforums.com/t3732167-question-of-jews-on-the-name-of-the-lord.html
I believe Jesus calls for us to die and be born again, for one.Then I said I don't care for the religion that calls for my death, and you say I remind you of why you don't like humanity?
Very strange.
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