Toddlers in worship

[Timothy]

We had a fun service on Sunday--our children go out for Sunday School during the sermon, coming back in to celebrate the Sacraments together, but for the past few weeks we've had a toddler who doesn't go out for Sunday School. And on Sunday, just as our Priest-in-Charge had finished celebrating, the kid walks up the aisle and up onto the stage. Our retired minister took over the distribution of communion while our Priest took the kid round the sanctuary pointing out bits and then took him back to his mother. Had we not had the other priest available, I rather think he would have delayed distributing communion to ensure that the child feels welcome in the church... and that's the way it should be, IMO. In our Parish back home, we frequently have toddlers wandering around, holding the hand of the person leading service, bashing away at the large store of percussion instruments we have available for use... And they generally remain part of the Church. Does your church have a policy of letting children wander where they want and make them feel welcome in Church? After Baptism they are part of the Body of Christ--they are children of God, and since it's His House, and they are his children... they need to feel welcomed, loved and accepted. I know whenever we visit our home church in the UK there's always a sense of 'this is home, where I'm meant to be.'

 

[pmcleanj]

We had a fun service on Sunday--our children go out for Sunday School during the sermon, coming back in to celebrate the Sacraments together, but for the past few weeks we've had a toddler who doesn't go out for Sunday School. And on Sunday, just as our Priest-in-Charge had finished celebrating, the kid walks up the aisle and up onto the stage. Our retired minister took over the distribution of communion while our Priest took the kid round the sanctuary pointing out bits and then took him back to his mother. Had we not had the other priest available, I rather think he would have delayed distributing communion to ensure that the child feels welcome in the church... and that's the way it should be, IMO. In our Parish back home, we frequently have toddlers wandering around, holding the hand of the person leading service, bashing away at the large store of percussion instruments we have available for use... And they generally remain part of the Church. Does your church have a policy of letting children wander where they want and make them feel welcome in Church? After Baptism they are part of the Body of Christ--they are children of God, and since it's His House, and they are his children... they need to feel welcomed, loved and accepted. I know whenever we visit our home church in the UK there's always a sense of 'this is home, where I'm meant to be.'

Oh, man, did you touch a sore point.

This for your priest. This for your congregation. This for everything you said above.

How much of my website have you read? There's a reason that most of our weekly worship is done at an ELCIC church, with our attendance at our "home" Anglican church limited to those "special" services that the redoubtable ACW ladies avoid. It's the same reason that my children refer to said "home" as "the church that hates children". Our friends who continue to attend regularly keep trying to assure me that things have changed -- but every time I go back I see a complete dearth of toddlers which suggests to me that other parents are still experiencing the kind of welcome I experienced when the irrepressible Rachel was two.

 

[Timothy]

How much of my website have you read?

It was that that inspired me to post this. I know I saw a few people in our congregation who were shocked--I saw them inwardly asking the question: is a child is more important than the Sacrament?? I would respond absolutely, yes! Not only is the Sacrament a representation to us of the body of Christ... more importantly, we, including that child, are the Body of Christ, and we are the only Christ that most people will ever meet, and we need to nuture that relationship with Christ in that child from the very beginning, and that starts, if you ask me, with making him feel welcome among His people.

 

[ebia]

We had a fun service on Sunday--our children go out for Sunday School during the sermon, coming back in to celebrate the Sacraments together, but for the past few weeks we've had a toddler who doesn't go out for Sunday School. And on Sunday, just as our Priest-in-Charge had finished celebrating, the kid walks up the aisle and up onto the stage. Our retired minister took over the distribution of communion while our Priest took the kid round the sanctuary pointing out bits and then took him back to his mother. Had we not had the other priest available, I rather think he would have delayed distributing communion to ensure that the child feels welcome in the church... and that's the way it should be, IMO. In our Parish back home, we frequently have toddlers wandering around, holding the hand of the person leading service, bashing away at the large store of percussion instruments we have available for use... And they generally remain part of the Church. Does your church have a policy of letting children wander where they want and make them feel welcome in Church? After Baptism they are part of the Body of Christ--they are children of God, and since it's His House, and they are his children... they need to feel welcomed, loved and accepted. I know whenever we visit our home church in the UK there's always a sense of 'this is home, where I'm meant to be.'

 

[karen freeinchristman]

Sounds good to me! Another

 

[TomUK]

We had a fun service on Sunday--our children go out for Sunday School during the sermon, coming back in to celebrate the Sacraments together, but for the past few weeks we've had a toddler who doesn't go out for Sunday School. And on Sunday, just as our Priest-in-Charge had finished celebrating, the kid walks up the aisle and up onto the stage. Our retired minister took over the distribution of communion while our Priest took the kid round the sanctuary pointing out bits and then took him back to his mother. Had we not had the other priest available, I rather think he would have delayed distributing communion to ensure that the child feels welcome in the church... and that's the way it should be, IMO. In our Parish back home, we frequently have toddlers wandering around, holding the hand of the person leading service, bashing away at the large store of percussion instruments we have available for use... And they generally remain part of the Church. Does your church have a policy of letting children wander where they want and make them feel welcome in Church? After Baptism they are part of the Body of Christ--they are children of God, and since it's His House, and they are his children... they need to feel welcomed, loved and accepted. I know whenever we visit our home church in the UK there's always a sense of 'this is home, where I'm meant to be.'

So much of what you say is wonderful, Timothy. Churches are nowhere near accessible enough and children and young people should be made aware how vital they are to the congregation. However it is equally important to respect the sanctity of the sacrament. This isn't pointed at you at all but from my experience there are some churches who have not found a suitable balance between being a welcoming and open church and due reverence to what it is we do. I've been to too many churches where the integrity of the message preached has been compromised due to an overly PC attempt of being inclusive.

 

[TomUK]

After Baptism they are part of the Body of Christ--they are children of God, and since it's His House, and they are his children... they need to feel welcomed, loved and accepted.

Let's not forget though that so is everyone else too - we are all God's children and are in need for his touch. Church is for the man for whom it is his only time for a bit of peace during the week. It's for the woman whose husband is abusing her and she can't understand why God allows it to happen. It's for the teenager whose mother has just died from cancer and is finding it difficult to cope. It's for the couple have just suffered the pain of a miscarriage.

We are all God's children. You look around the faces of people in church and realise that everyone is there for a very different reason. I've truely got no idea how we can every manage all the needs of a single church. However we do also need to be careful not to narrow the purpose of a church to a single demographic (a horrible term, but i hope you get my point)

 

[Timothy]

Let's not forget though that so is everyone else too - we are all God's children and are in need for his touch. Church is for the man for whom church is his only time for a bit of peace during the week. It's for the woman whose husband is abusing her and she can't understand why God allows it to happen. It's for the teenager whose mother has just died from cancer and is finding it difficult to cope. It's for the couple have just suffered the pain of a miscarriage.

Right. My experience has generally been this: a church that welcomes children [and the chaos they bring!] is generally a church which welcomes all with open arms. Certainly my home church in the UK has a huge widely varying bunch of different people attending, all of whom are welcoming and accepting of each other. I think it starts with an attitude that everyone, from age 0 or whatever, can be part of the worshipping community of God.

When we attended a Vineyard in the USA, they told us that their priorities were as follows: Get a community of people who are ALL worshipping together, and that'll be so attractive to any people who visit that they'll want to come back. This meant a certain degree of chaos during worship... and chaos is absolutely fine.

I've been working in a school helping out the past few months [looks good on my application for teacher training!] and I have noticed the teachers who are most effective are the ones who:
a) Don't try and control their classroom too heavily, that means no shouting, no raised voices
b) Allow a certain degree of chaos to reign. Occasionally that means putting the lesson plan to one side while a discussion takes place and making up for it the next lesson. Yes, even 9 year olds can discuss things intelligently if you treat them as intelligent people.

We once had a locum minister who described the 'Passing of the Peace' as 'unsanctified chaos' and wanted to ban it. He insisted on taming it down, but I'm afraid to say that I disagree with him. I think it was 'sanctified chaos'--people milling around, exchanging Christ's Peace... isn't that surely what it's all about? Naomi once described the Peace as 'one of the great healers of the church'. And that has been my experience in the past few months.

Basically my thesis is: Organised Chaos [That is, Chaos where we have a rough idea of where we're supposed to be heading, in the Church's case that should be towards Jesus] is a good thing for a school, home, church, whatever. I know families where they can't cope if any detail of their regimen is out. And those kids once they leave for college have no desire to come home. When we regimently order how things operate in God's home, are we risking alienating people from wanting to return home?

 

[Tawny]

I remember once when at church my little girl (a baby at the time) nattered and made baby noises all through the service, I apologised to the Vicar afterwards and he said 'never ever apologise for any noise your child makes, she is the future and as much a member of the church as the oldest person here. Besides, I can talk over any child ' Such a great attitude to have.

I know a few weeks ago, one of our number took his little boy up when to the rail so he could have a blessing and the parent could take Communion. He proclaimed loudly that it isn't fair because the adults get to have a drink half way through and he has to wait til the end. The whole place erupted into laughter as the vicar gently explained to the little boy why the adults had a 'drink' half way through.

 

[Inside Edge]

Our previous church, and one we visit occasionally, is as Timothy described. Lots of toddlers and babies, all allowed to move around. Most parents will walk up and haul them off the alter area at some point to avoid them knocking over candles, etc, but other than that, it's pretty free roam. Often the priest will acknowledge and interact with them during the sermon, pick them up, etc. It is a strong community church and all the parents are involved in babysitting each other's kids, and even the members who do not have children there will often offer to hold or rock a crying baby for the parents to give them a break, etc.

My current church is pretty divided. The general rule is that typical toddler action is Ok and welcome. However, there are enough (maybe 25-30%) people who consider it distraction. In our first couple of months, our toddler daughter was "shushed" out of church and we had several comments like, "there is a nursery for that," when our baby would whine or what have you.

Naturally, our kids are the only toddlers in regular attendance. As time passes, the congregation has warmed up a lot, as is with most things. Once they get to know the kids, their noises aren't as annoying because they like them on a more personal level. This is an improvement, but it has led to our kids being sort of "trophy toddlers" in the congregation, as opposed to those more stuffy people actually opening up to other young families.

It has taught us a good lesson - that there is a difference between being welcoming and open. Our church is welcoming, extremely so. Anyone who visits or attends will feel it genuinely. However, as weeks pass, you realize that although you are welcome, there are some habits and comforts that people are not open to changing or moving away from so easily. It kind of makes it a wonderful place to visit, but I'm sure many wouldn't want "live there."

 

[karen freeinchristman]

"trophy toddlers"

I know what you mean - my kids are "trophy tweenies".

 

[Finella]

I have to confess that my experience with parishes and young children is (among other reasons) why I am reluctant to start attending church with my little one. My last parish's rector tried valiantly to make the sanctuary a welcoming place for small children. His efforts resulted in a little quiet nursing corner that was curtained off from the rest of the sanctuary, and an addition of a third "family service" to the morning schedule. Unfortunately the service schedule ran the clergy ragged and, I felt, led to the sense that the only appropriate service for young children was that service. If a family chose to attend the larger and more popular 10:30 am service with their small children, they would receive glares or be the subject of comments made by our perfectionistic choir master who couldn't abide by any distracting sounds during his ensemble's performances.

Ugh. I'm still a little sensitive on this one, too!

 

[higgs2]

At Christmas our priest always sternly reminds us that there is a *lie* in the second verse of "Away in a Manger", because baby Jesus *did* cry, and so do all babies, so don't worry about it. God loves the noises that babies make.

 

[karen freeinchristman]

At Christmas our priest always sternly reminds us that there is a *lie* in the second verse of "Away in a Manger", because baby Jesus *did* cry, and so do all babies, so don't worry about it.

My Rector always says that, too!

 

[JasonV]

However it is equally important to respect the sanctity of the sacrament.

That's what a good old fashioned sacrament rail is for (one that closes off the sanctuary completely)!

 

[TomUK]

Maybe we could electrify it - that'd stop 'em.

 

[JasonV]

Maybe we could electrify it - that'd stop 'em.

 

[Inside Edge]

If a family chose to attend the larger and more popular 10:30 am service with their small children, they would receive glares or be the subject of comments made by our perfectionistic choir master who couldn't abide by any distracting sounds during his ensemble's performances.

Yeah, been there, too. Our church has 2 services, 8:30 and 10:30, the 10:30 being advertised as the "Family" service. However, half of the old-school don't like to get going so early, so they attend the 10:30 and bring their "keep the kids out of here" attitudes with them. There is talk of testing out a third service, possible in the afternoon, which would be more conducive to baby and toddler families' schedules, but I wonder how long it could last even if it was a success, for the same reason you've mentioned - the clergy would be spent.

 

[Mrs.Sidhe]

Our church is quite welcoming of toddlers. Due to some events in my past (namely my first son's death) I have issues leaving my child in someone else's care unless I know them very well--so that ex's out the nursery. My 8am service is quite welcoming of my daughter and always has been. I was even congratulated by an elderly man for breastfeeding because he was apparently a very strong BF advocate..(he said it during the peace--it was kinda weird but very appreciated--we have a legendary "Peace" in my diocese) I went to the more popular 10:30am service once as well and I didn't see much of a difference in reaction.

As far as communion goes I never understood why more parents do not encourage their children to take communion as soon as possible and only have their children get blessings. My daughter has been getting communion since the day of her baptism.(in fact she received communion on the actual day of her baptism)I thought this was very important as my beliefs concerning the Sacrament and when its given are more EO. I hope by taking her up to communion so early that she will learn from a young age the importance of the Sacrament.

 

[wannabeadesigirl]

You have to remember that accepting children is a very Christ like thing. Remember he was the one who said "Let the children come to me", and take it from one who works full time at a daycare, the children weren't acting angelically cherubic. They were acting like kids, which is why they are so precious to God. They have no pretenses, which, if you look at the Old and New Testaments, is something that God wants us to be rid of. Our pretenses, the feeling of a need to be something we're not.

We have a couple of precocious little ones in our services. At one point the little boy forgot to wear a belt to hold up his pants. He also forgot to wear underwear, and so when he stood up to take communion he mooned the entire congregation.
That's usually the kind of thing that goes on with our services.

The parents in our congregation usually keep their kids close. However we have an open communion for anyone who's been baptized, so infants 8 weeks old are seen accompanying mom and dad to the altar and being blessed until they get teeth. Then they tend to take half an hour to finish the honey bread we use for the bread.