To tithe, or not to tithe?

franklin · Jun 25, 2002

Originally posted by Mandy
Is it more important to give a tenth or to give cheerfully, faithfully, and as is purposed in our hearts?

Mandy, answer: cheerfully, faithfully and as lead by the Holy Spirit to freely give and not at some set price!
.... We finally agree on something sister!

eldermike · Jun 25, 2002

Because I feel that this thread could lead a new Christian to a bad decision I am here defending something very basic within the body of Christ. Money is a master. You cannot serve two masters.

Young in Christ:

Giving in the church is an issue of maturity.
A healthy church has many ministries headed by God sent people. These ministries are funded by mature members who give cheerfully as God requires us to do. It's easy to get confused about God's word, not that God tires to confuse us, but the enemy is hard at work at all times showing us what our flesh wants to see, telling us what our ears want to hear and our eyes want to see.

If you pray about 2Cor 9, you should discover that it's not about deciding what to give, but rather a decision as to what you want to reap. Read it again. This is about maturity. Allow me to rephrase it: If you are ready to take an adult position in the kingdom of God, give freely and cheerfully to your church. Paul wrote this to a CHURCH.

If your mindset is to find a misspent dollar and then use that as a reason to give less, then you are in a mindset of an immature Christian, you are deciding on what you will give. A mature Christian decides what they will reap, they don't like waste but they are not about to stop reaping and they know and have experienced the connection between giving and reaping.

How does this equate in today's church? If your church is not full of tithing members you will have very little to do. In fact all you have to do is go every Sunday and hear a message. If your church is full of thithers you will be busy in some ministry, youth, children, old, poor, missions, community service, all types of work in God's will. Which one of these churches are you attending? Paul says it's about your money, is He wrong?

2CO 9:6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7 Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8 And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. 9 As it is written:

Tithe, at least.

Blessings

Mandy · Jun 25, 2002

My point isn't not to give, but that we are not bound to give a certain percentage. If one has purposed in their heart to give a certain amount and gives it cheerfully and in faith, do you believe that God will not honor that? What about poor Christians who have no money or material things to give, but instead give of themselves and their time? Are they robbing God?

ZiSunka · Jun 25, 2002

But too many Christians use the verses about only giving what they determine in their own hearts to give nothing at all!

There was a time when giving even 50 cents was a big deal to me. I had so little income that that 50 cents was like $50 to most people. God didn't care that I didn't give more. I think he was excited that out of the nothing I had, I gave something. But now that I have more income and some money in the bank, I think he would be sorely disappointed with me giving 50 cents.

When I did start having more income, I didn't rush out and give 10% right away, I worked my way up to it, giving a little bit more each year until I reached my goal of 10% without going bankrupt. I think God was fine with that, too, because I had determined in my heart to honor God with my money, at the amount I could afford.

But I didn't go out and get cable TV, a cell phone, a hot car, at luxury apartment, and then tell God that there was nothing left for him and would 50 cents still be okay?

And too many American Christians do just that. They see to their own luxuries first, then give a small percentage of whatever they haven't spent that month.

Can you picture how you would feel if you gave your kids money to go to the store and buy meat and potatoes for Thanksgiving dinner, and instead they spent it all on candy, then asked for more money for more candy, never giving it any thought that the others in the family might be hungry, lacking even a main course? That's the way a lot of us western Christians act.

Mandy · Jun 25, 2002

Originally posted by franklin

Mandy, answer: cheerfully, faithfully and as lead by the Holy Spirit to freely give and not at some set price!
.... We finally agree on something sister!

LOL! Amazing isn't it?

Mandy · Jun 25, 2002

Originally posted by lambslove
But too many Christians use the verses about only giving what they determine in their own hearts to give nothing at all!

There was a time when giving even 50 cents was a big deal to me. I had so little income that that 50 cents was like $50 to most people. God didn't care that I didn't give more. I think he was excited that out of the nothing I had, I gave something. But now that I have more income and some money in the bank, I think he would be sorely disappointed with me giving 50 cents.

When I did start having more income, I didn't rush out and give 10% right away, I worked my way up to it, giving a little bit more each year until I reached my goal of 10% without going bankrupt. I think God was fine with that, too, because I had determined in my heart to honor God with my money, at the amount I could afford.

But I didn't go out and get cable TV, a cell phone, a hot car, at luxury apartment, and then tell God that there was nothing left for him and would 50 cents still be okay?

And too many American Christians do just that. They see to their own luxuries first, then give a small percentage of whatever they haven't spent that month.

Can you picture how you would feel if you gave your kids money to go to the store and buy meat and potatoes for Thanksgiving dinner, and instead they spent it all on candy, then asked for more money for more candy, never giving it any thought that the others in the family might be hungry, lacking even a main course? That's the way a lot of us western Christians act.

I couldn't agree with you more! The thing though I wasn't saying not to "tithe", it's just that it isn't necessary to give a certain amount. As Christians we should want to give freely. I personally think it is a good principal and an ideal amount, but not something one should be condemned or judged for if they don't.

ZiSunka · Jun 25, 2002

You're right Mandy, we shouldn't judge each other over anything. It is what is in our heart that God sees and knows, and if we are being fair with our giving, that's okay with Him.

franklin · Jun 25, 2002

Originally posted by eldermike
If you pray about 2Cor 9, you should discover that it's not about deciding what to give, but rather a decision as to what you want to reap. Read it again. This is about maturity. Allow me to rephrase it: If you are ready to take an adult position in the kingdom of God, give freely and cheerfully to your church. Paul wrote this to a CHURCH.
Tithe, at least.

Mr eldermike, I would suggest that you read what I posted in #6 & #10 in this forum so I won't have to repeat it again. I'm not sure if you read it or not. If you have, I would suggest for you to re-read it again. I think it basically covers what your referring to in your quotes. I have to disagree with you about tithing, it has nothing to do with spriritual growth, that sounds like some more of the scare tactics used by those in control of the pulpits these days, "If you don't tithe your going to die spiritually", I think I've heard them all or at least most of them from flat tires on your car to houses burning down!
There is no commands in the NT for millions of dollors to be spent on construting fancy buildings when there are plenty of people who can have some needs met so much better with all that money! Tithing has nothing to do with being an adult in God's kingdom either! It's beyond me where you dreamed that up from or was that another one of those sayings coming from the pulpit to tickle itching ears! It's nowhere to be found in scripture! Unless that is what you might read into it! Other then that, I would like to wish you a very happy rest of the day.

Cheers

Back To The Future · Jun 25, 2002

Franklin,
Thank you for your posts. I so agree with you.
I know this verse, probably isn't what it means to most people, but I listen to that still voice that tells me,
"Nancy, if you love me, feed my sheep" And Thats what my family does.
We have given in the church offering plate. But Don't believe the tithe is something that is taught in the New Testament.
My son, went to the airport last week with his dad to get his sister. He told me "mom, I am taking a dollar incase I see that homeless man again." He had given him a dollar when they took his sister earlier in the week.
Feed my sheep.
I don't belive people should be paid for preaching the word of God.
And as far and being more up to what and where the church is spending the money. All you have is what THEY give you to go on.
Blessings
Nancy

pcmixoye · Jun 25, 2002

The Statement was made: There is more about money than any other subject in the Bible.
I wish I could find all these verses every one is refering to.
I find more about Jesus than money.
When it comes to tithing or giving or whatever you call it. What is in your heart and where your heart is aimed is more important than how much or how often.
All of it your money, your time, your_________, fill in the blank any thing will fit, BELONGS TO JESUS. that is where your heart should be. If he instructs you to tithe then DO IT with ALL your heart. If he instructs you to give x to y then DO IT with ALL your heart. any thing else is sin.

God Bless Pete

TruelightUK · Jun 25, 2002

Oh boy, this thread is getting a bit ugly, isn't it, guys?
Please let's try to have a civilised conversation without jumping down the throat of everyone we disagree with! (I guess it just goes to prove that there's nothing like money to get Christians hot under the collar!?!)

I'd just like to reiterate my own view on this one; that there is no hard and fast legalistic 'rule' on this one which we must follow or be cursed. But there is a definite principle running through both Old and New Testament that 'the labourer is worthy of his hire'. If a man gives up his secular job so that he can devote himself to prayer, preaching and caring for God's people, then it is only right and proper that those to whom he ministers honour him for that dedication by 'paying' him - ensuring that his physical needs are met and he can provide for his family etc. Of course there are some preachers around who abuse their position, seeing it as a means of getting rich quick, demanding 10% and more from their congregation, exerting their right to live well, have a nice house, fast car and all the trappings of worldly prosperity. That is contrary to the spirit of Christ (and his apostles) who set aside their own comfort for the sake of those they served. But my heart is grieved when I hear Christians coming up with a hundred and one excuses why they don't have to give to their church! You want a nice building to worship in, equipment for the band and the Sunday school, a preacher to build you up in the Word, a pastor to visit you when you're sick or distressed, programmes to reach out to the lost and the hurting? Then the money to pay for all that has to come form somewhere - if not out of your wallet then whose? The state? The taxes of non-believers? Magically drop from the clouds? Is God honoured when his Church has to scrimp, save and beg to be able to put on a second-rate, penny-pinching apology for a service to His people? Then why not dig deep and give joyfully, so that you can see something to be (in the right sense of the word) proud of being done in His Name?!

Yet, of course, money is not everything - and we have to be careful of becoming too focussed on finances. I beleive tithing also has to do with our time and our talents. As God's people we are all meant to be functioning members of the body - putting in the time and effort to ensure the work of ministry gets done, and done well. Not just sitting back in our pews expecting to be spoon-fed by the 'professionals' whose wages we grudgingly pay!

Anthony

debs · Jun 25, 2002

Its none of my business what anybody else gives or where or how much. I figure whatever you do, if youre doing it in faith, hope and love...youre gonna be right on the mark anyway in Gods sight and thats all that really matters right?.

You know in all this talk on tithing (and I accept some of the blame since I started a thread there too, sorry family) that the scripture of 'money being the root of all (or all kinds) of evil' seems to have proved itself here...all we have really accomplished here is undertones of judgement, some feeling like they have to defend their stand, and division etc etc....it seems to me that the building of the Kingdom has not occured in this thread and I feel like its time to drop it cause 'God just might have left the building'...I'm gonna go somewhere else and build someone UP!! Sorry, Debs

ZiSunka · Jun 25, 2002

Gee, I didn't think it was hostile at all. Just because a discussion gets heated doesn't mean that people are mad at each other, or that something constructive is coming out of it.

LouisBooth · Jun 26, 2002

"That's just my point booth! You didn't use the Bible as the final authority, just like all your other posts! "

Whatever frankin. I used scripture to back up every word I have said in docterinal matters.

"you remind me of the preachers who use the scare tactics and guilt trips to have people fork over their hard earned cash! "

*sigh* Please stop pulling things out of thin air thanks franklin. No one wants to listen to your false assusations and bloated false teachings.

If your church has needs you give until they are fufilled. You seem to misunderstand that the needs of the church include that the needs of the congragation are met (this includes food, shelter, clothing, etc). This can be accomplised easily by 10%. Should everyone be required to give that, nope. I never said that and never will. Those more blessed should give more and those less blessed should give less. Its not equal gifts but equal sacrifices.

Julie · Jun 26, 2002

A tenth or tithe is a starting point we should grow in our giving as we grow in the Lord.

TruelightUK · Jun 26, 2002

Originally posted by lambslove
Gee, I didn't think it was hostile at all. ..

When personal 'attacks' of the kind addressed just above this by Louis start emerging, I think the spirit of love, patience and mutual respect is wearing thin, and it might be time to move on!  Besides, is there really anything left to be said on this one?!?

 

Anthony

eldermike · Jun 26, 2002

Mr Franklin,
you wrote:
<Mr eldermike, I would suggest that you read what I posted in #6 & #10>

I did read them. I disagree with your interpretation of them.
Paul was aware that false preachers were taking money out of the church of which He nor they were the pastor. It was traditional to pay them so many came. Paul said He was not a burden to them nor would he be. This has nothing to do with the money given in the church.
I do the same when I visit other churches, although some have put checks in my car because I told them I would not take it.

Your view of this issue is your view. My suggestion that it's not a mature one is biblical.
EPH 4:9 (What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? 10 He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.) 11 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12 to prepare God's people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

EPH 4:14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. 15 Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. 16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

Mr Franklin, your view of this issue is immature. Teachers, Pastors work very hard and long hours. They were called to it by God. Mr Franklin, whatever it is you do for a living, I pray God blesses you richly in it.

Blessings

franklin · Jun 30, 2002

Originally posted by eldermike
I did read them. I disagree with your interpretation of them.
Paul was aware that false preachers were taking money out of the church of which He nor they were the pastor. It was traditional to pay them so many came. Paul said He was not a burden to them nor would he be. This has nothing to do with the money given in the church.
I do the same when I visit other churches, although some have put checks in my car because I told them I would not take it.

Nowhere in any of my posts on this subject do I condemn giving freely as the spirit leads out of the abundance of the heart!  You are misunderstanding everything I have posted in this thread.  I was pointing out that the tithe was a carnel law under the OC sacrificial law.   Scripture says our body is now the temple of God, and the Spirit of God dwells within us (Romans 8:9-11, 1 Corinthians 3:16,17; 6:19-20, 2 Corinthians 6:16, Revelation 21:3). Scripture says God does not dwell in temples made with hands (Acts 7:48; 17:24). This is why, when Jesus died, and confirmed the New Testament, the physical temple was rent in half (Matthew 27:51, Mark 15:38, Luke 23:34). In the New Testament, the temple is used figuratively of Christ's human body (John 2:19,21). Believers are now "God's building" (1 Corinthians 3:9), and "as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood" (1 Peter 2:5). We are to glorify God in our body with "spirit and truth" (John 4:23-24). Paul says Christ's body is His assembly in Colossians 1:24. Giving support to a church is not called tithe in scripture. If you gave "one-tenth" of all your possessions, then that would be tithe. The word "tithe" literally means "tenth," and if someone does not give one-tenth of all his possessions to the church, then he has never tithed to a church in his life. Did you ever give a tenth of all your possessions mr eldermike? 

Cheers

 

Julie · Jul 1, 2002

2Cor 9:

6   But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7   Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Droobie · Jul 1, 2002

2 Corinthians 9:7

Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Just a note about 2 Cor 9:7.  Who actually, before they go to church, sits and prays to God about what they should give?  Do you hear from God what you are going to give?  Or do you give out of feeling guilty, or on hearing at the time that you'll be blessed when you give?  That is giving reluctantly and under compulsion.  A cheerful giver is one who has already planned ahead and knows before they step into church what they are about to give.

Who here believes that everything that we have we earned through work and sweat through our own hands?  Is it not God who is our Lord?  Have we forgotten that when we 'gave' our lives to Jesus, it was spirit, soul and body.  Or do we leave finances out of the equation?  What do we hold back from God?

Perhaps others may have a different view here, but I believe that ALL that I have was provided by and belongs to God and that I am but a steward.  I am a branch that has been connected to the vine that is Jesus, and from him, living water will flow, through me that I may bear fruit.

Maybe another way to look at tithing, is not that we are giving God 10% (or what you've decided to tithe) of what we own, but we are bringing that amount to His house for His Will and Purpose.

God does not look at the amount that we bring but our hearts and attitude as we bring it.  For me personally, I belive that a tenth of our income (before tax & expenses, as I would like to be blessed in turn before tax & expenses) is a good starting point.  Offerings to missions, building funds, love or praise offerings etc are above and beyond my tithe.

To tithe, or not to tithe?

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