To Love and to Cherish from this day forth

[benedictaoo]

Making a wife the priority [after God] is not that hard.
I am simple - or maybe i am not - lol.

making her a priority can be hard because men (and so do women) have a lot of other priories that can conflict.

 

[WarriorAngel]

there is a dysfunction there when neither doesn't want it. it could be a libido issue or a psychological one, it could be a intimacy issue or one spouse just does not love the other as they ought, ie not physically attracted to him or her. It could be a number of reasons why. But is it abuse? No.

I havent thought about it as an abuse or not... but it could be a form of control if one doesnt give in because they want to make the other suffer who needs or wants it.

I think abuse and control are closely related...

Paul says:

1 Corinthians 7:3 [1] Now concerning the thing whereof you wrote to me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. [2] But for fear of fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
Let the husband render the debt to his wife, and the wife also in like manner to the husband.
[4] The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband. And in like manner the husband also hath not power of his own body, but the wife. [5] Defraud not one another, except, perhaps, by consent, for a time, that you may give yourselves to prayer; and return together again, lest Satan tempt you for your incontinency.


Tempting could go a lot of directions - such as the 'M' word, adultery or whatever else... i dont know.
So we may end up leading our spouses into sin if we neglect, or even resist their needs.
This goes both ways.

If there are health issues, surely it is with consent that the two are apart.
It is equally wrong to demand what someone is unable to give. Are they ill, or sick or some other problem...? then with that knowledge it should be by consent.
Rape is abuse... that's certain.

 

[WarriorAngel]

making her a priority can be hard because men (and so do women) have a lot of other priories that can conflict.

Outside of work even in the house, the subject goes on to say above friends, hobbies, family, parents, children, activities.

What are you referring to?

IF a wife is given high priority status she is confident - and therefore willing to give a lot of freedom. If a man is with drawn and disconnected to her needs, things become pretty unbalanced.

 

[benedictaoo]

I don't know... if you do not want to have sex with a person, is it right that you should be made to?

I'm asking a question, not making any statements.

Not wanting to and being made to feel like you have to in order to keep a person from acting like a jerk, can also be abuse.

Right?

I dunno if I'm so down with the verse being interpreted to mean women have to have sex with a man and visa versa.

What I really do believe is abuse, is men using this verse to make women have sex when ever they want it, regardless if the women does not want to.

 

[benedictaoo]

Outside of work even in the house, the subject goes on to say above friends, hobbies, family, parents, children, activities.

What are you referring to?

IF a wife is given high priority status she is confident - and therefore willing to give a lot of freedom. If a man is with drawn and disconnected to her needs, things become pretty unbalanced.

oh yeah, she should be first above friends, hobbies, family, parents, activities.

but not their children. That should be both of the parents priority, IMO.

In my world, the kids always come first but that might not be right... I don't know.

 

[WarriorAngel]

oh yeah, she should be first above friends, hobbies, family, parents, activities.

but not their children. That should be both of the parents priority, IMO.

In my world, the kids always come first but that might not be right... I don't know.

Ya know i used to think that way - but coming across a good many divorced people, there has been an unusual amount of women who left their spouses because the husbands put the children first in all things and made them feel inferior or second rate.

I suppose when it comes down to it, the children eventually leave the parents and cling to their spouses and if the spouses do not put themselves first - things become unbalanced.
The future for them - when without their children - leaves a gaping hole. Because what was priority is no longer there for them and they feel loss rather than content.

Also, from things i have read, if the spouses are first priority the children feel more secure because the two come together on decisions that affect their lives which in effect trickles down to the children.

NOW - loving a child is the utmost in importance and making them feel loved, but if one does not feel loved first from their spouse - the children suffer because they are the recipient of a well balanced family life.

I saw this put as a hierarchy a few times, and cannot remember where i saw this. And it made sense to me after knowing women who left their marriages to find someone who would put them first.
I dont know their religious affiliations, regardless, there has to be something innate in the human need for them to leave the marriage due to a feeling of neglect.

A happy wife has happy children and the same with the husband.

What i was told was... 'he would come home and greet the children and ignore me.' and 'he went places with the children and didnt ask me.'
So i am going to say - i agree the spouse comes first. Alienation is neglect.
Children understand mom and dad need time to go out together and do things... they wont feel slighted in the least, i think the other way around the spouse feels slighted.

 

[benedictaoo]

I agree.

It also gives the kids a sense of entitlement. They think they have a right to what ever belongs to the parents way past the age of maturity.

 

[WarriorAngel]

I agree.

It also gives the kids a sense of entitlement. They think they have a right to what ever belongs to the parents way past the age of maturity.

O i know.
Some never want to make it on their own because so much was given to them.

And they may even play the parents against one another.. if the parents are not united in all things.

 

[fated]

Did you see that on a website? Normally abusive expectation deal with not doing things right, like folding the laundry right and stuff.

The sexual abuse usually revolves around rigid structuring or pointless or needless regulations you could say.

The way I understand it, the spouse with less desire is to try and accommodate the one with more and the one with more is expected to be a patient as possible while also being inviting... something like that. The the sex part isn't being expected to meet needs, as far as I know, but has more to do with limiting, trivializing, and belittling.

If you're referring to my post, I'm certain what I copied was 'in general' and not connect, directly, at least, to sexual expression, though, I suppose it could used in that case. It would be like treating your spouse as a drug, but complaining at their inadequacy to the task... being a 'nympho'.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Did you see that on a website? Normally abusive expectation deal with not doing things right, like folding the laundry right and stuff.

You need to clarify.

The sexual abuse usually revolves around rigid structuring or pointless or needless regulations you could say.

The way I understand it, the spouse with less desire is to try and accommodate the one with more and the one with more is expected to be a patient as possible while also being inviting... something like that. The the sex part isn't being expected to meet needs, as far as I know, but has more to do with limiting, trivializing, and belittling.

If you're referring to my post, I'm certain what I copied was 'in general' and not connect, directly, at least, to sexual expression, though, I suppose it could used in that case. It would be like treating your spouse as a drug, but complaining at their inadequacy to the task... being a 'nympho'.

Do you mean using the spouse as an object? And not a person with dignity who is to be loved?

Whats wrong with nymphomania? JUST kidding.

 

[fated]

With these types of abuse you need to start with the obvious examples. Like going nuts on your spouse for not folding dirty laundry, where, if they are real nasty, or get real upset and weepy just one time to get you to do something you see as pointless or humiliating out being forced by their use of emotional control... that would be violent the first and every time. The person who is the victim is unlikely to forget an instance of this abuse, unless it is done with significant repetition. It obviously includes things like threatening your own life. And we are talking about conversations that are heated or in all seriousness, not in a jovial manner.

Then you pull back to things that would require a pattern of undervaluation. Say they do the laundry but don't fold the socks, so they are ridiculed for not folding -your- socks. This won't probably hurt someone in just one instance, but with the water works or the all they drama, it is altogether possible that it -could-. One would expect, however, that over the course of years, maybe, they would lose their confidence, become withdrawal, and perhaps have trouble with or animosity for people of the opposite sex. Normally, it wouldn't be just the socks, but there would be a pattern with whatever it was they would do, there would be 'some fatal flaw' that would trigger the abuser to become emotional.

So, instead, the next time they fold the socks, but the didn't get put away. Then the next time they put the socks away, but they aren't in the right spot. Then they aren't in the right order. Then they aren't facing the right way. Then they need done everyday. Then the detergent isn't right (and its their fault THIS VERY TIME!). I don't think most people would put up with it for that long, but they might. The message they get is "you're not good enough, your spouse is not happy, it is all your fault" and often combined with verbal/emotional violence like "sometimes I just want to give up' or "get a divorce" and maybe even walk out slamming the door, and MAYBE EVEN stay out for the night or a couple days over and over, until they, might have an anxiety attack, or something, and end up in the hospital with a 'cardiac event' that leads to maybe a few days in the hospital to protect them from their spouse while an intervention is in progress. And everyone they know 'is like' 'what happened?'.

 

[WarriorAngel]

With these types of abuse you need to start with the obvious examples. Like going nuts on your spouse for not folding dirty laundry, where, if they are real nasty, or get real upset and weepy just one time to get you to do something you see as pointless or humiliating out being forced by their use of emotional control... that would be violent the first and every time. The person who is the victim is unlikely to forget an instance of this abuse, unless it is done with significant repetition. It obviously includes things like threatening your own life. And we are talking about conversations that are heated or in all seriousness, not in a jovial manner.

Do you see crying as abuse?
Because women are prone to cry, though most will do it alone.
I dont see crying as abuse, women cannot always control that impulse.

Going nuts in what way? Yelling or hitting? Or both? Or what?

Then you pull back to things that would require a pattern of undervaluation. Say they do the laundry but don't fold the socks, so they are ridiculed for not folding -your- socks. This won't probably hurt someone in just one instance, but with the water works or the all they drama, it is altogether possible that it -could-. One would expect, however, that over the course of years, maybe, they would lose their confidence, become withdrawal, and perhaps have trouble with or animosity for people of the opposite sex. Normally, it wouldn't be just the socks, but there would be a pattern with whatever it was they would do, there would be 'some fatal flaw' that would trigger the abuser to become emotional.

Seems like a serious case of PMS... not kidding.
There are meds to counter this.

So, instead, the next time they fold the socks, but the didn't get put away. Then the next time they put the socks away, but they aren't in the right spot. Then they aren't in the right order. Then they aren't facing the right way. Then they need done everyday. Then the detergent isn't right (and its their fault THIS VERY TIME!). I don't think most people would put up with it for that long, but they might. The message they get is "you're not good enough, your spouse is not happy, it is all your fault" and often combined with verbal/emotional violence like "sometimes I just want to give up' or "get a divorce" and maybe even walk out slamming the door, and MAYBE EVEN stay out for the night or a couple days over and over, until they, might have an anxiety attack, or something, and end up in the hospital with a 'cardiac event' that leads to maybe a few days in the hospital to protect them from their spouse while an intervention is in progress. And everyone they know 'is like' 'what happened?'.

Could be a case of some layered issues to me not properly resolved and left to fester.. one thing begot another and so forth and til finally the lining came undone.

This is not abuse - its really a problem that stems from something that was never communicated - and eventually after time - grew out of proportion.
Also - it sounds like something put a flame to the teapot and it is going off loudly...
Counseling would probably help.
But it takes determination and love and real understanding to undo all the layers.


The Catholic Church has this wonderful retreat called Retrouvaille. Pronounced Retro-vey.
Its a weekend where couples learn to communicate effectively and listen to the other without pinning blame.. but rather rediscovering each other and learning the positive way to speak to a loved one.

I dont think that is abuse - i think it is something underlying that was never resolved.

To make a spouse a priority - one must wish to resolve the conflict and fix it somehow. Just saying...

 

[WarriorAngel]

One other thing it might be - a mental imbalance that may need meds... if the spouse is not holding onto unresolved issues.

 

[fated]

That's actually textbook emotional abuse, destroying the other person, either quickly or slowly over time, sometimes knowingly so. Crying is not necessarily abuse. If I hit you because I can't resist, I have still abused you, right?

But yes, emotionally abusing a spouse could very well be due to some mental problem the person already has.

I point this out, post a website that discusses emotional abuse describing these things. If you do some homework and look at more sites, you'll find the same thing. But then a few people are sure that such and such is not abuse. Or maybe I think, they make excuses when they could except even the most vicious emotional attacks. If threatening to leave your spouse in order to gain control or threatening to kill yourself to gain control of your spouse is not emotional abuse, then what, can I ask, is?

 

[WarriorAngel]

That's actually textbook emotional abuse, destroying the other person, either quickly or slowly over time, sometimes knowingly so. Crying is not necessarily abuse. If I hit you because I can't resist, I have still abused you, right?

But yes, emotionally abusing a spouse could very well be due to some mental problem the person already has.

I point this out, post a website that discusses emotional abuse describing these things. If you do some homework and look at more sites, you'll find the same thing. But then a few people are sure that such and such is not abuse. Or maybe I think, they make excuses when they could except even the most vicious emotional attacks. If threatening to leave your spouse in order to gain control or threatening to kill yourself to gain control of your spouse is not emotional abuse, then what, can I ask, is?

Emotional abuse - as you call it - is probably more accessible to finding healing [changing the pattern] than physical abuse.
Reassurance - constancy - strength might help pull a person out of this type of behavior... BUT a counselor with tips for them to work on needs to be part of the solution and or some meds.
Could be bipolar if their moods are extreme up and down. Could be neglect when they were a child and needing too much attention now. Might be an underlying problem with which the actor doesnt know how to communicate. It sounds like insecurity.

And i am certain it hurts the one who has to put up with the reception of these painful outbursts. But finding the one you fell in love with - might be worth it.
Ask for counseling, have them go for blood work...
If they refuse, i think this is where living separately might be helpful til they decide if they are willing to dig deeper into their issues.
Of course a priest would be best suited to advise on this.... and a professional.

All avenues must first be worked through before pulling any plugs. Abuse hurts, but changing behavioral patterns does take time, and for the spouse [recipient] it might be needful they learn the triggers and stop things before they escalate.
And learn catch phrases that head off the outbursts.

Nothing is impossible if one is willing to create some type of harmony for the marriage. I know - it takes two. But it takes at least one to get the healing started.

 

[fated]

Emotional abuse - as you call it - is probably more accessible to finding healing [changing the pattern] than physical abuse.
Reassurance - constancy - strength might help pull a person out of this type of behavior... BUT a counselor with tips for them to work on needs to be part of the solution and or some meds.
Could be bipolar if their moods are extreme up and down. Could be neglect when they were a child and needing too much attention now. Might be an underlying problem with which the actor doesnt know how to communicate. It sounds like insecurity.

And i am certain it hurts the one who has to put up with the reception of these painful outbursts. But finding the one you fell in love with - might be worth it.
Ask for counseling, have them go for blood work...
If they refuse, i think this is where living separately might be helpful til they decide if they are willing to dig deeper into their issues.
Of course a priest would be best suited to advise on this.... and a professional.

All avenues must first be worked through before pulling any plugs. Abuse hurts, but changing behavioral patterns does take time, and for the spouse [recipient] it might be needful they learn the triggers and stop things before they escalate.
And learn catch phrases that head off the outbursts.

Nothing is impossible if one is willing to create some type of harmony for the marriage. I know - it takes two. But it takes at least one to get the healing started.

In the worst of this type many of the abusers premeditate the emotional attacks. Or fantasize. They may believe that it is their real emotion and therefore not abusive. (Thinking "Oh, I'm so mad I'm going to tell her I'm leaving... see if that makes her come around...' etc)

 

[WarriorAngel]

In the worst of this type many of the abusers premeditate the emotional attacks.

In the least of this type - it is a cry for help.