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To atheists: a museum analogy regarding Creationism

Halbhh

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You do understand that your way of thinking only applies to you?

There are about 2 billion people that say they believe in Christ. Ergo, it's going to be a few.

But about finding Him, that's the way to do it according to His instructions to us.
 
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Halbhh

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Which leaves 5.5 that don't. That's a lot more, right?

3.1415 something is possible.

Wrote that quip when for a moment I thought you meant that 5.5 people agree with me about the Higgs Boson situation suggesting the possibility of a Designer, but then saying it's how or why to believe.

About the 5.5 billion you actually mean are not Christian, only a small portion of them have heard the exact teachings of Christ on how to live past some vague idea He wants us to love each other.
But the precise words He used that make quite a difference, such as "in everything" in this teaching --

"So in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you, for this sums up the law..."

It's actually a surprising wording to many, because it says it sums up the law. No other law needed if people do this. Interesting in that way. It even means that Christians now have all the 'law' down into one sentence that is quite very simple, and not all Christians even know that, of course.

Also, unlike some other versions of such a rule, it does not say merely "refrain from doing to others what you don't want done to you".

No. It says rather a lot more than only that.

That "in everything" is another zinger (if that's an adequate word).

His actual wording that kinda gets to you, if you find out not a 2nd hand version, but read it yourself in full in the oral accounts written down called the '4 gospels', without a mediator to tell you what it's supposed to be or obscure it with noise or political stuff.

You start to notice it's....actually pretty good stuff. Makes you think. If you read it yourself, your own eyes.
 
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CrystalDragon

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Regarding the part I bolded, what about those who sincerely sought and found nothing, and became atheists?
 
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Halbhh

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Regarding the part I bolded, what about those who sincerely sought and found nothing, and became atheists?

Well, the wording suggests to me a sort of "all in".

It's just like a real leap of faith, or really is a leap of faith.

I'm quite sure about that. It's very much like a person literally leaping off a building without seeing the trampoline. On an emotional level. Sort of. Because I dared to have my life turned up side down in that way.

Maybe not quite as brave as really risking death, but that....total going for it faith wise part. That's how I take "all of you heart."

It would not mean some other lessor thing like, "ok god, I don't know if you exist, but if you do, then send a sign". No, that's not it, not even slightly close.

One has to take a leap of faith, and try to find Him. That means moments of time where you truly have faith.
 
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pitabread

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I'm quite sure about that. It's very much like a person literally leaping off a building without seeing the trampoline. On an emotional level. Sort of. Because I dared to have my life turned up side down in that way.

I think what CrystalDragon was alluding to is the fact it's possible to have a similar experience and arrive at an entirely different world-view or belief.

I know for myself I went on a 'spiritual quest' of sorts back when I thought I needed religion in my life. But after seeking out and learning about all sorts of spiritual/religious beliefs, ultimately I arrived at a state of non-belief. And the effect was incredible; like there had been this giant weight on my shoulders and suddenly it was gone and everything seemed so clear. It was a rush of emotion and incredible relief, and all it took was acknowledging and coming to terms with what I honestly believed deep down.

Quite the experience.
 
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Halbhh

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I went on quite a few spiritual quests of sorts before.

I did authentic sweat lodges, learned TM mediation fully and even did it with the dedicated that lived in a community for a year and a half (it's pretty good in it's effect actually). So, yeah, you can have all sorts of spiritual quests. I know that first hand. Get all sorts of places. Realize their far out claims though don't work. That's right.

Glad you got the false off of your shoulders!

The reality of Christ is so different than weight on you, when you find the real thing.

Not about living up to some kind of notion someone has. It's more like you have transformation happen to you, and it's a gift to you, and you get it by truly trusting Him. The ultimate weights get taken off, the deeper ones.

He says, "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”

And really it's really the truth. The real thing is both easy and light, and it's much like....eating ambrosia or something. A perfect thing you need. Think on it -- "A new command I give you, that you love one another". It's to surrender to what we really want.
 
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pitabread

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Glad you got the false off of your shoulders!

The reality of Christ is so different than weight on you, when you find the real thing.

Just to clarify though, I found non-belief. Ultimately I adopted an agnostic position; I believe that if there is some sort of supernatural deity in the universe it is likely unknown to us and not represented in any particular theistic beliefs. But that's just my view of things.
 
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Halbhh

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Here's a way to think about it -- if something is true, then versions of it are going to be discovered over and over through human history, over time, with different flavors, trying to capture that subtle or deeper insight or something hard to pin down. But after they try to get at that something that caused the initial quest, then the degree of the real in their beliefs they end up communicating will be what determines if the beliefs endure, instead of simply lasting a generation or several generation. If it has some real truth in it, instead of fading out, it will continue, century after century.
 
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pitabread

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That's one interpretation.

Another is that human beings with our endless curiosity and desire to understand the world coupled with amazing storytelling ability and language, leads to a plethora of narratives about our universe. Which may or may not have some truth to them.

Who can really say?
 
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xianghua

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xianghua

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here is the same with camera evolution:

evolution of camera‏ - חיפוש ב-Google:

but it's doenst mean that there is a stepwise way from one kind into another.
 
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Jimmy D

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AirPo

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About the 5.5 billion you actually mean are not Christian, only a small portion of them have heard the exact teachings of Christ on how to live past some vague idea He wants us to love each other.

...
And you know that how?
 
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AirPo

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Here's a way to think about it .. myths, legends, and tall tales falsify the premise in the quoted post.
 
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Paulos23

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by this criteria somthing that looks like a car isnt a car and doesnt need a designer then?

I have never seen a car with a whip for wheels. It is not even like a car axel. It is a short axel run by processes that are possible at that scale.

If you are looking for evidence of a designer, I would think there would be more evidence at our scale.
 
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Halbhh

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And you know that how?

Discussions and using just the ordinary sense of people you get after you talk to many hundreds to many thousands, and start to see trends, etc.
 
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AirPo

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Discussions and using just the ordinary sense of people you get after you talk to many hundreds to many thousands, and start to see trends, etc.
I find that very hard to believe.
 
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