To All Muslims in Here

[Im_A]

You are some awesome people. Today I went to a birthday party(we went out to eat for it) for a friend who is my age that my mother works with. They, meaning her family and her, were so kind and gracious. Then they invited us over to their house. We all hung out, a lot of laughs and had great fellowship together. Great talks and great food. There were many things I loved what I saw about them as people and such.

So thumbs up!

 

[Montalban]

I'm a non-Moslem, but I work with Moslems. And I've Moslem neighbours. They always seem nice people.

However I believe that most people don't know their own faiths all that well. Muslims are commanded by the Koran not to have non-Muslims as close friends.
Koran
5:51
O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliya' to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya', then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust).


It is not permissible for a Muslim man or woman to take a male or female friend who is not a Muslim, because Allaah has forbidden us to love the kuffaar or take them as close friends and companions
Islam Question and Answer - Should she end her relationship with some kaafir women or use the opportunity for da?wah?
Question :
In the Quraan, it says that we can not take the Kuffaar as awliyaa, but what does that mean? I mean, to what degree? Can we do business with them still? If I'm at school, can we play basketball with them? Can we talk to them about basketball and stuff? Can we hang out with them as long as they keep their beliefs to themselves? The reason I ask is because someone I know does hang out with them in this way and it doesn't affect his beliefs, but I still tell him, "Why don't you hang out with the muslims instead?" He says that most or many of the Muslims drink and take drugs where they hang out and they have girlfriends and he's afraid that the sins of the Muslims will lure him, yet he's sure that the Kufr of the Kaafirs will not lure him because that's something that isn't attractive to him. So is hanging out with them, playing sports with them, and talking with them about sports considered as "taking them as awliyaa instead of the believers" keeping in mind that he is doing that for his own eemaan?.
Answer :
Praise be to Allaah.
Firstly:
Allaah has forbidden the believers to take the kaafireen (disbelievers) as friends, and He has issued a stern warning against doing that.
Islam Question and Answer - What is meant by taking the kuffaar as friends? Ruling on mixing with the kuffaar

I want to repeat here that the Moslems I know are all quite friendly. I don't know that many would even be aware of this Koranic verse. Perhaps they have a different interpretation - or that because we're not 'close' friends, rather just neighbours or work colleagues, it doesn't matter.

Arab hospitality to strangers is quite well known. They consider it a point of honour.

 

[Im_A]

I'm a non-Moslem, but I work with Moslems. And I've Moslem neighbours. They always seem nice people.

However I believe that most people don't know their own faiths all that well. Muslims are commanded by the Koran not to have non-Muslims as close friends.
Koran
5:51
O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliya' to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya', then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust).


It is not permissible for a Muslim man or woman to take a male or female friend who is not a Muslim, because Allaah has forbidden us to love the kuffaar or take them as close friends and companions
Islam Question and Answer - Should she end her relationship with some kaafir women or use the opportunity for da?wah?
Question :
In the Quraan, it says that we can not take the Kuffaar as awliyaa, but what does that mean? I mean, to what degree? Can we do business with them still? If I'm at school, can we play basketball with them? Can we talk to them about basketball and stuff? Can we hang out with them as long as they keep their beliefs to themselves? The reason I ask is because someone I know does hang out with them in this way and it doesn't affect his beliefs, but I still tell him, "Why don't you hang out with the muslims instead?" He says that most or many of the Muslims drink and take drugs where they hang out and they have girlfriends and he's afraid that the sins of the Muslims will lure him, yet he's sure that the Kufr of the Kaafirs will not lure him because that's something that isn't attractive to him. So is hanging out with them, playing sports with them, and talking with them about sports considered as "taking them as awliyaa instead of the believers" keeping in mind that he is doing that for his own eemaan?.
Answer :
Praise be to Allaah.
Firstly:
Allaah has forbidden the believers to take the kaafireen (disbelievers) as friends, and He has issued a stern warning against doing that.
Islam Question and Answer - What is meant by taking the kuffaar as friends? Ruling on mixing with the kuffaar

I want to repeat here that the Moslems I know are all quite friendly. I don't know that many would even be aware of this Koranic verse. Perhaps they have a different interpretation - or that because we're not 'close' friends, rather just neighbours or work colleagues, it doesn't matter.

Arab hospitality to strangers is quite well known. They consider it a point of honour.

For me, the issue doesn't matter to be honest and I mean no offense to you. I am sure Western muslims are going to be different than Eastern muslims with interpretation methods. I don't know their views theologically. One time hanging out doesn't mean we're close friends, but they treated us with such hospitality that I am not used to. I am sure theological issues are just as wide and varied as in Christianity nor do I care if they are to the letter of the Koran, because there is no Christian that is to the letter of the Bible and there is no religious person that is exactly to the letter of the law of the religious book. They just like every other one who isn't of the letter of the law tries their best so it means nothing to me if one proclaims to be of a religion and doesn't succeed in being to the letter of the law. All I know is they are good people and people I would for sure love to be around again if given the chance and that's all that matters to me.

Plus this forum seems to get a lot of people going after Islam and Muslims. I just wanted to give a lighter hearted thread. If you want to debate the theological implications with the Koran, your going to have to discuss it with someone else because I simply do not care.

 

[Montalban]

For me, the issue doesn't matter to be honest and I mean no offense to you. I am sure Western muslims are going to be different than Eastern muslims with interpretation methods. I don't know their views theologically. One time hanging out doesn't mean we're close friends, but they treated us with such hospitality that I am not used to. I am sure theological issues are just as wide and varied as in Christianity nor do I care if they are to the letter of the Koran, because there is no Christian that is to the letter of the Bible and there is no religious person that is exactly to the letter of the law of the religious book. They just like every other one who isn't of the letter of the law tries their best so it means nothing to me if one proclaims to be of a religion and doesn't succeed in being to the letter of the law. All I know is they are good people and people I would for sure love to be around again if given the chance and that's all that matters to me.

Plus this forum seems to get a lot of people going after Islam and Muslims. I just wanted to give a lighter hearted thread. If you want to debate the theological implications with the Koran, your going to have to discuss it with someone else because I simply do not care.

I'll make these comments more general. I think then you're making a mistake in identifying a group of people with a particular faith, if what they do is divorced from that faith.

In the same way as if I said "Oh, enjoy hanging around fat people, because the fat people I know are so jolly".

If their being 'jolly' has nothing to do with their size then it's no point mentioning that you enjoy hanging around 'fat' people, it'd be better just saying you enjoy hanging around 'jolly' people.

To look at this another way, I really enjoy a film about Oskar Schindler - called Schindler's List. It ALWAYS makes me cry towards the end of the film when he realises that he might have been able to save more, if he had just sold his gold pin, or his car. (the fact a whole, other person could have been alive makes me cry). Schindler was an industrialist. He used slave-labour. He was a member of the Nazi Party.

Now if I were to say "I love the Nazis" based on the acts of this one person, then you would think it odd that I equate his actions with those of the Nazis because you know that despite what Nazis believed, he acted differently. Thus knowing, or examining "Nazi belief" would be pertinent, when examining a person, who's a Nazi, even if his actions were good.

Thus I find it irresponsible to promote a group based on a few good individuals. I know some too, but it implies that the few you know are the 'right' example for the group. I disagree. I know you do so because you mean well. It can seem to a great many here that I am hi-jacking the threads where people set out to say a particular group is good.

I do step in because I don't believe the group as a whole can be judged on the actions of a few - which is oddly the very same thing many people such as yourself also believe... excepting that people like yourself feel that the groups you know are normative. I don't.

 

[Mahammad]

I'll make these comments more general. I think then you're making a mistake in identifying a group of people with a particular faith, if what they do is divorced from that faith.

In the same way as if I said "Oh, enjoy hanging around fat people, because the fat people I know are so jolly".

If their being 'jolly' has nothing to do with their size then it's no point mentioning that you enjoy hanging around 'fat' people, it'd be better just saying you enjoy hanging around 'jolly' people.

To look at this another way, I really enjoy a film about Oskar Schindler - called Schindler's List. It ALWAYS makes me cry towards the end of the film when he realises that he might have been able to save more, if he had just sold his gold pin, or his car. (the fact a whole, other person could have been alive makes me cry). Schindler was an industrialist. He used slave-labour. He was a member of the Nazi Party.

Now if I were to say "I love the Nazis" based on the acts of this one person, then you would think it odd that I equate his actions with those of the Nazis because you know that despite what Nazis believed, he acted differently. Thus knowing, or examining "Nazi belief" would be pertinent, when examining a person, who's a Nazi, even if his actions were good.

Thus I find it irresponsible to promote a group based on a few good individuals. I know some too, but it implies that the few you know are the 'right' example for the group. I disagree. I know you do so because you mean well. It can seem to a great many here that I am hi-jacking the threads where people set out to say a particular group is good.

I do step in because I don't believe the group as a whole can be judged on the actions of a few - which is oddly the very same thing many people such as yourself also believe... excepting that people like yourself feel that the groups you know are normative. I don't.

Are you comparing Muslims with Nazis?

Let’s not start talking about history...

 

[Wicked Willow]

Aren't there some Christian denominations that do not maintain friendships with any Non-Christians, except for the purpose of converting them to the One True Faith? I'm sure there are, and I seem to remember that they can point to some Biblical passages to substantiate their position.

 

[HolyWarrior77]

Aren't there some Christian denominations that do not maintain friendships with any Non-Christians, except for the purpose of converting them to the One True Faith? I'm sure there are, and I seem to remember that they can point to some Biblical passages to substantiate their position.

That would make them a Cult. For any true Christian must acknowledge that it's God's will that none shall perish but ALL should come to repentance. The salvation of the Lord is for ALL man. So long as when you're together with your non-christian friend and you're not sinning, you're to love them and help them

2 Peter 3:9 (NKJV) 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Acts 17:30-31 (NKJV)
30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

 

[Catherineanne]

You are some awesome people. Today I went to a birthday party(we went out to eat for it) for a friend who is my age that my mother works with. They, meaning her family and her, were so kind and gracious. Then they invited us over to their house. We all hung out, a lot of laughs and had great fellowship together. Great talks and great food. There were many things I loved what I saw about them as people and such.

So thumbs up!

This is my experience as well. Whenever I have been invited to the home of a Moslem I have invariably been treated with the greatest respect, and received the kindest hospitality. I have been taken to the table of honour, and given the best of food to choose from, even before other guests.

I think Moslems do not realise that their greatest asset is their hospitality; the ordinary, everyday love they show to anyone who visits their homes.

 

[Montalban]

Are you comparing Muslims with Nazis?

Not at all. I'm saying that when someone starts talking about a group of people as an example of good 'Moslems' he needs to see whether or not they are good, because they are Moslem. He might as well have said "I know a group of people with dark hair, who are good", or "I know a group of people who detest pork, who are good"

What is their goodness got to do with their being Moslem?

Let’s not start talking about history...

I love history. Let's start talking.

 

[Catherineanne]

What is their goodness got to do with their being Moslem?

The question is, has anyone here experienced anything other than the greatest courtesy and hospitality from any Moslem?

And if not, it would seem that courtesy and hospitality is very much part of being Moslem.

 

[Montalban]

Aren't there some Christian denominations that do not maintain friendships with any Non-Christians, except for the purpose of converting them to the One True Faith?

But that's my point. We'd need to see this group of Chrisitans (more than just your innuendo) and see if what they say is connected to Christianity.

Imagine if you will, for a moment that I went out and made headlines by taking an axe to my neighbours. In my trial I say "Wicked Willow was this person I met on-line and she said I should go out and kill my neighbours"

Are you responsible for what I did?

Not at all. There's no connection between what I said and did, and you, and what you say and do.

Simply by me saying I'm a follower of you, doesn't make it so. You'd be partly to blame if you'd incited me to such an act.

Likewise if I go out and did something wonderful like donated all my money to charity and said "I did this because Wicked Willow said I should" you can't get credit either for what I did, because there's no causal link.

Which brings me back to the OP. These good people who happen to be Moslem - what is the relevency about mentioning their faith? Why not mention their nationality? Or, their language group? Or, their shoe sizes? What is the link between their goodness and Islam?

We've had one Moslem here post already. Why doesn't he cite something like "Be close friends with your non-Moselm brothers" if there's such a quote to be had?

I'm sure there are, and I seem to remember that they can point to some Biblical passages to substantiate their position.

Cite them. Show me a causal link.

I have done so with Moslems who don't have non-Moslems as close friends by showing links not only to the Koran, but to modern Islamic opinion on that matter.

 

[Montalban]

The question is, has anyone here experienced anything other than the greatest courtesy and hospitality from any Moslem?

Actually I have. But my point is not that the personal experiences of the few means that the whole are like that.

That's what prejudice is based on.

 

[SlaveOfGod]

Just to like to add to this thread by providing a couple of authentic hadith from the Prophet who said:

"The most beloved of Allah's servants to Allah are those with the best manners."
And he also said

"Nothing is weightier on the Scale of Deeds than one's good manners."

 

[elwill]

Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was also a very hospitable person. Even before he was raised to the status of Prophethood, he was known as a hospitable and generous man. Nobody ever went away from him empty handed. He used to feed the poor, the needy, the widows and orphans and was very popular among the people of Makkah. In Medinah, his hospitality knew no bounds and his house was open to all; rich and poor, friend and foe, all came to him and were treated very generously by him. People used to come in large numbers from all directions, and he entertained them all and served them personally. Nobody ever went back without having received something from him.

His hospitality was not confined to Muslims alone, but was extended to all human beings, irrespective of caste or creed. Polytheists and Jews, all were his guests and he entertained them all, without any distinction. When a Christian deputation came from Abyssinia, he kept them in his house and served them personally throughout their stay. Once a polytheist was his guest. He gave him the milk of one goat and he drank it all. He was given a second goat's milk, which he drank as well. In this way he drank the milk of seven goats but Muhammad did not stop offering him milk until he was satisfied. Sometimes it so happened that the guests ate all that was available in the house and nothing was left for the Prophet and his family to eat, so they had to go without food that night. This was not an unusual occurrence in the Prophet's house.. The poorest and the most destitute among the companions were the Ashab Suffah, who were the permanent guests of the Muslims. Most of the time they were the guests of Muhammad. Once he said, "Anyone who has enough food for two persons should take three of them, he who has enough for four should take five of them with him." Abu Bakr took three of them with him while Muhammad took ten of them with him."

Abu Hurairah told a very distressing story of his hunger and starvation. He was one of the As'hab Suffah. He said, "One in. utter starvation, I sat on the main highway. Abu Bakr passed that way and I, to invite his attention to my humble state, asked him about a verse of the Qur'an. He went by and did not take any notice of my condition. The same thing happened with Umar, and he also did not pay much attention to me. Then God's Messenger came along and, seeing me smiled and said, 'Come with me.' When he arrived home, he saw a cup of milk and enquired about it. He was told that it was sent as a gift to him. He asked me to bring all the people of the Suffah. I brought them all with me. He gave me the cup of milk and asked me to distribute it among them all."

Muhammad was extremely hospitable and entertained all who came to his house. He also taught his companions verbally as well as by his practical example to be hospitable to all.

 

[GodIsNear]

The question is, has anyone here experienced anything other than the greatest courtesy and hospitality from any Moslem?

And if not, it would seem that courtesy and hospitality is very much part of being Moslem.

I have, and i do live in an Islamic country, anyways without going much into details, I believe that it would be much better not to stereotype, While i have dealt with good moderate Muslims who were really nice people, I have also dealt with others who were rude and would just wont say hi to me because I am Christian.

 

[Ave Maria]

You are some awesome people. Today I went to a birthday party(we went out to eat for it) for a friend who is my age that my mother works with. They, meaning her family and her, were so kind and gracious. Then they invited us over to their house. We all hung out, a lot of laughs and had great fellowship together. Great talks and great food. There were many things I loved what I saw about them as people and such.

So thumbs up!

Why thank you! I think Muslims are some pretty awesome people too.

 

[Montalban]

Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) was also a very hospitable person. Even before he was raised to the status of Prophethood, he was known as a hospitable and generous man. Nobody ever went away from him empty handed. He used to feed the poor, the needy, the widows and orphans and was very popular among the people of Makkah. In Medinah, his hospitality knew no bounds and his house was open to all; rich and poor, friend and foe, all came to him and were treated very generously by him. People used to come in large numbers from all directions, and he entertained them all and served them personally. Nobody ever went back without having received something from him.

His hospitality was not confined to Muslims alone, but was extended to all human beings, irrespective of caste or creed. Polytheists and Jews, all were his guests and he entertained them all, without any distinction. When a Christian deputation came from Abyssinia, he kept them in his house and served them personally throughout their stay. Once a polytheist was his guest. He gave him the milk of one goat and he drank it all. He was given a second goat's milk, which he drank as well. In this way he drank the milk of seven goats but Muhammad did not stop offering him milk until he was satisfied. Sometimes it so happened that the guests ate all that was available in the house and nothing was left for the Prophet and his family to eat, so they had to go without food that night. This was not an unusual occurrence in the Prophet's house.. The poorest and the most destitute among the companions were the Ashab Suffah, who were the permanent guests of the Muslims. Most of the time they were the guests of Muhammad. Once he said, "Anyone who has enough food for two persons should take three of them, he who has enough for four should take five of them with him." Abu Bakr took three of them with him while Muhammad took ten of them with him."

Abu Hurairah told a very distressing story of his hunger and starvation. He was one of the As'hab Suffah. He said, "One in. utter starvation, I sat on the main highway. Abu Bakr passed that way and I, to invite his attention to my humble state, asked him about a verse of the Qur'an. He went by and did not take any notice of my condition. The same thing happened with Umar, and he also did not pay much attention to me. Then God's Messenger came along and, seeing me smiled and said, 'Come with me.' When he arrived home, he saw a cup of milk and enquired about it. He was told that it was sent as a gift to him. He asked me to bring all the people of the Suffah. I brought them all with me. He gave me the cup of milk and asked me to distribute it among them all."

Muhammad was extremely hospitable and entertained all who came to his house. He also taught his companions verbally as well as by his practical example to be hospitable to all.

I have already noted the hospitality of Arabs.

There's a difference between

Hospitality towards strangers and making that stranger a close friend (over whatever time period)

 

[Chesterton]

The question is, has anyone here experienced anything other than the greatest courtesy and hospitality from any Moslem?

I'm thinking maybe you wrote this before your first cup of coffee. Still a bit groggy maybe?

 

[Montalban]

I'm thinking maybe you wrote this before your first cup of coffee. Still a bit groggy maybe?

I find the guy at the Kebab shop always friendly therefore every thing negative in the press about Moslems is totally false

 

[SlaveOfGod]

I find the guy at the Kebab shop always friendly therefore every thing negative in the press about Moslems is totally false

Whats kebabs got to do with being a Muslim?