Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Ran77 said:That is not true. I have told you that I do not have a testimony based on a burning bosom. You have made a false statement here.
Here's another Mormon who thinks that idea is bogus. It reminds me of a comment I wish I would have saved from an internet discussion about 8 years ago. The poster claimed, "THIS is Mormon doctrine, believed by every Mormon I've ever met except for the Mormons who all post here."Doc T said:Wow Ran, now Breetai knows two Mormons who reject "burning of the bosom" as the only source of a testimony. Any other Mormons care to chime in?
Doc
~
Well, I have the testimony of 6 in-laws of the "burning bosom" theory, so I guess that makes the score 6-3, doesn't it?Alma said:Here's another Mormon who thinks that idea is bogus. It reminds me of a comment I wish I would have saved from an internet discussion about 8 years ago. The poster claimed, "THIS is Mormon doctrine, believed by every Mormon I've ever met except for the Mormons who all post here."
Alma
To all Mormons
How do you know that Joseph Smith was a real prophet? Couldnt he have been just making things up?
skylark1 said:I have read messages here and elsewhere in which LDS have stated that they did not know that the Book of Mormon was true by a "burning in the bosom." Since so many have claimed this, yet so much has been written about LDS missionaries telling people to "pray to know if the BOM is true, and that it will be confirmed by a burning of the bosom," I am curious why there is such a discrepency. I am not questioning your honesty at all, I'm just trying to understand.
Do you feel that the truth of the BOM was confirmed to you partially by a "burning in the bosom" and partially by study, do you feel that the the spirit confirmed this to you in a different way, or did you arrrive at your conclusion purely by study?
BTW, I know that Moroni 10 doesn't mention a "burning in the bosom." Some time ago, I assumed that it did, simply because I either read it some place or was told that that it did. When I finally bothered to read what it said for myself, I was surprised tht there was no mention of it.
However, D&C 9:8 does mention this:
Thanks for your response. That was a lot more informative than non-LDS telling LDS what they believe, and LDS responding with a simple "that's not true."Alma said:Skylark, I think the point that I and Doc and Ran and others are trying to make is that the denigration of the concept of a burning bosom is mistaken. Breetai implied that the LDS testimony rested entirely with a good feeling and equated that to the burning bosom. We dont deny that this concept is valid and may play a part in some peoples testimony but the implication that this is the sole or even the primary claim to a testimony is utterly and totally false. I attend LDS services regularly, I hobnob with LDS people and I rarely hear any of them describe the source of their testimony as a burning bosom. More often, I hear it explained that God (usually the Holy Spirit) told them something specific. Whether that instruction came by an audible voice, an impression, a vision or a visitation or some other means all constitute ways in which someone might obtain a witness or a testimony. Even so, this shouldnt be interpreted in such a way as to conclude that we reject the burning in the bosom. That facet of revelation was pointed out by Jesus disciples who met the Lord on the road to Emmaus and in retrospect concluded that they should have realized who had walked with them: Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures? (Luke 24:32)
I guess that I didn't mean for the question to be of such a personal nature, but of a more general nature concerning if LDS believe that the truthfulness of the BOM is confirmed only by a "burning in the bosom," only by another spiritual experience or feelings, only by study, or by a combination. Don't worry, I am not going to pitch a fit and think that you are calling me a swine.The confirmation of the truthfulness of the BOM is to me a sacred experience that I dont generally discuss. I classify it as a pearl. Now, lest people pitch a fit and think that I have called them swine, I should explain that I dont know who the swine are, only that they are out there and Christ has given instruction not to cast pearls where they can be trampled upon. So, I would imagine those who really take offense at that concept should take it up with the Lord.
I did notice that when I read the verse in context, and almost mentioned it, but thought that it was better to let LDS explain how they feel that the verse should be applied.And, notice, that this reference in the D&C isnt dealing with obtaining a testimony per se but with instruction on how Oliver Cowdery was to be able to translate ancient documents.
skylark1 said:I guess that I didn't mean for the question to be of such a personal nature, but of a more general nature concerning if LDS believe that the truthfulness of the BOM is confirmed only by a "burning in the bosom," only by another spiritual experience or feelings, only by study, or by a combination.
skylark1 said:Even though the reference in the D&C pertained to Oliver Cowdery and translating documents, do you believe that many or most LDS apply this to how they believe that the spirit will confirm if the BOM is true? It seems like if so many claim that missionaries and/or relatives mention this, that the belief would have its basis in one of the LDS standard works.
daneel said:Make that 7-3. Pops wrote that same thing in a BOM that he sent me.
<><
Doc T:
Interesting, most LDS refer people to Moroni 10:4-6 which, as Skylark pointed out, says nothing of a "burning bosom".
I guess your Pops is different.
Doc
...concerning the burning in the bosom. Alright then, I stand corrected. I can only say that this is true of every converted Mormon that I've talked to in person. I can think of Mormons who've grown up in the LDS Church that have not had this and have not bothered to pray about the BoM....every single other Mormon that I've ever talked to...
I don't know Breetai, the lds I talk to and have talked to in "real life" give very different opinions than many of the lds on this forum. I have been told by lds that you could go to any lds church in the world and be taught the same teachings as you would at any other lds church in another part of the world but I have to wonder about that considering that what I am told by lds in "real life" is so different than what I often hear lds on this forum say.Breetai said:...concerning the burning in the bosom. Alright then, I stand corrected. I can only say that this is true of every converted Mormon that I've talked to in person. I can think of Mormons who've grown up in the LDS Church that have not had this and have not bothered to pray about the BoM.
Frankie said:I don't know Breetai, the lds I talk to and have talked to in "real life" give very different opinions than many of the lds on this forum. I have been told by lds that you could go to any lds church in the world and be taught the same teachings as you would at any other lds church in another part of the world but I have to wonder about that considering that what I am told by lds in "real life" is so different than what I often hear lds on this forum say.
Frankie
yes, I remember that post of yours and I remember responding and saying that i also have those same "feelings" and asking if according to lds teachings, does that mean that I have the lds holy spirit?fatboys said:FB: This is possitively my last for a while. Sky mailed me and said this was an interesting topic, and Sky was exactly right. A while ago I asked others how they knew what they believe was correct. How was it manifest to them. They inturn asked if I would tell how I knew. I explained it, and it had nothing to do with burning in the bosom but I said that perhaps the burning is the only way some people could explain it. I explained it as a sense of security, a sense of complete peace. I tell eight year olds that when they get hurt and the can only think about one thing. Getting into their mothers arms and them holding them. That peace is similar to what the Holy Ghost gives to us when we ask for truth. That everything is alright, and our pain will end. For a short time your troubles are lifted, and peace comes into your soul. LDS do not have debs on the Holy Ghost, and anyone who asks God for truth will receive it. But for the confirmation and witness for his word, that is the best I can describe it. Thanks Sky
This is what I think:Frankie said:I don't know Breetai, the lds I talk to and have talked to in "real life" give very different opinions than many of the lds on this forum. I have been told by lds that you could go to any lds church in the world and be taught the same teachings as you would at any other lds church in another part of the world but I have to wonder about that considering that what I am told by lds in "real life" is so different than what I often hear lds on this forum say.
Frankie
Eldest said:If you argued over the authenticity and accuracy over the testaments as compared to TBOM, that leads us to believe that you are a Mormon apologetic. Correct me if I am wrong. As for errors in TBOM, I didnt even mention the plagorisms, or the manner in which it was supposedly translated. I'm just saying that TBOM has NO archealogical proof to back up its claim, or scriptual evidence to support it. Where as Christianity does, are you going to tell me that I am wrong, because doing so is only fooling yourself, and yet again you have evaded me and my questions directly.[/font]
Doc T said:Wow Ran, now Breetai knows two Mormons who reject "burning of the bosom" as the only source of a testimony. Any other Mormons care to chime in?
Doc
~
Breetai said:This is what I think:
Many of the LDS on this forum are more educated in the Bible(as well as their own scriptures) than most. They have to be in order to defend their beliefs against us that debate with them. Many of the people who post here have become quite knowledgable since joining CF (I like to include myself here) because of the need to defend their faith.
In addition to that, with the internet having become so popular, information is easily and widely available. People today, those that read the huge amounts of things that are available to them online, including the LDS here, are often vastly more knowledgable then those that don't bother to read much. It seems that the majority of the posters in the unorthodox forum are very well read in what they debate.
Many of the 'real-life' people do not study these matters of docturnal dabates as we here at CF(and at other boards) do. As a result, many of the questions asked of those people are going to be cardboard answers; answers that have been fed to them by their respective organizations.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?