Oldmantook

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Jesus did, in fact, mention tithing. He spoke of how the Pharisee gave it....and did not tell them to stop.
Why is it that you feel that what Jesus told the rich man, was situational? Is it because you feel it would be too hard for you to do?.....It was just a hard for him as well.
Keep in context. Yeah, Jesus did mention tithing but you forget to note whom he was speaking to. He spoke to a Pharisee who was still required to tithe. Big difference from NT believers who are no longer required to tithe but instead to give joyfully - to others in need - not the church.
 
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Take it from me as I used to be on pastoral staff where tithing was taught. Whenever the monthly tithing trended lower for a few months, the Sr. Pastor would pull out his tithing sermon spotlighted by one or two testimonies from the congregation. The NT never refers to "tithing" at all. It does refer to "giving" - joyful giving. Just ask yourself, how can you give joyfully when you have bills hanging over your head?
Moreover, giving in the NT never went to support salaries of pastors, building expenses, etc. Giving in the NT was urged and practiced in order to support the needy brethren.
Sounds like the church should be assisting you and your family if you're in need - not the other way around. My suggestion is to not tithe and use the money to support your own household.


No church has put this on us at all. We're not members of a church a yet
 
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Oldmantook

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No church has put this on us at all. We're not members of a church a yet
If you wish to give, go ahead. If not, don't feel that you're required or compelled to give because of "tithing" which is a false teaching.
 
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RaymondG

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The NT never refers to "tithing" at all.

Yeah, Jesus did mention tithing but you forget to note whom he was speaking to.

Maybe you should update some of your posts, it is a little confusing. Both of the above statements cant be true simultaneously.

Keep in context. Yeah, Jesus did mention tithing but you forget to note whom he was speaking to. He spoke to a Pharisee who was still required to tithe. Big difference from NT believers who are no longer required to tithe but instead to give joyfully - to others in need - not the church.

Yes he was speaking to the Pharisee, and he did not tell them they we wrong for giving their tithe. And He told us that our righteousness must exceed......not replace, but exceed....that of the pharisee, to see the kingdom.....
 
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Oldmantook

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Maybe you should update some of your posts, it is a little confusing. Both of the above statements cant be true simultaneously.
Yes you are correct. Jesus mentioned tithing. The NT writers never mentioned tithing. Jesus correctly referred to tithing when he spoke to Jews still under the Old Covenant at that time. The NT writers writing to believers under the New Covenant never refer to the requirement of tithing but now refer to the joy of giving freely and joyfully and therein lies the distinction.

Yes he was speaking to the Pharisee, and he did not tell them they we wrong for giving their tithe. And He told us that our righteousness must exceed......not replace, but exceed....that of the pharisee, to see the kingdom.....
Yes and we exceed that righteousness when we freely choose to give with hilarity and joyfulness - not because we are required to tithe as that is a false teaching. Thanks for making my point.
 
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For salvation, no. My salvation is not in question.

We are not under the Old Covenant given to Israel. We are under New Covenant with New Commands. Hebrews 7:12 says the law has changed. It's why Paul said if one seeks to be circumcised, Christ will profit them nothing (Galatians 5:2). It's why the counsel in Acts 15 had said,

"Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment" (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

Anyways, the New Testament teaches this in regards to giving:

"Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver." (2 Corinthians 9:7).

"But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully." (2 Corinthians 9:6).

So we are to give what we have purposed in our heart to give.

That is New Covenant.

This giving is not towards just a church organization exactly (although it can be), this giving to the Lord take the form of giving to the poor, helping the orphan, the widow, those in prison, and in spreading the gospel ourselves.
 
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It seems like I got a lot of good answers here. Basically, if I want to tithe, fine. But it’s not a requirement (for salvation, or Christian living at all.) Giving generously and willingly in any regard is pleasing to God.
 
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Andrew77

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Malachi 3:10 comes to mind each time its brought up. I have failed in this regard.

Could anyone share testimonies on tithing with me? We're not doing so well financially, my wife and I. Its hard to wrap my head around making it and not having to duck bills by paying out more money. Just being honest as a human who is slow to learn.

Well, I heard decades ago as a younger man, a preacher said "If you don't tithe, then G-d won't be part of your financial world. So which is better 90% of pay check, plus G-d.... or 100% of your paycheck, by yourself without G-d?"

The implication of course is that having G-d in your finances, is worth more than keeping that 10% of your paycheck.

I personally have always tithed. My own experience is, whenever I have had money problems, it's been because I was foolish with my money, not because of the tithe.

I'll never forget having a roommate. Both of us worked at the same company, and they needed a place to stay, because they couldn't afford where they were.

We were both laid off in the same month. Both looked for jobs. Both found other employment. All in the same year.

At the end of the year, I had paid down debt, and saved money in the bank. They on the other hand, were completely broke, and deeper in debt, and had all kinds of money problems.

I never missed a tithe. They never tithed.

Can I say conclusively the reason I did better is because I tithed, and G-d was part of my budget?

No.

Can I say conclusively that the reason they were far worse off, even though we both had identical situations, is because they were going it alone without G-d?

No.

But it sure seemed like it in my view. They were keeping every penny, and never seemed to have a penny.

I was tithing and giving some to charity outside of my tithing, and always seemed to have enough, with more to pay down all my debts.

I don't have any debts at all these days. Haven't for years. No auto loans. No credit cards. No borrowed money of any kind. And I have not missed a tithe, since high school or about.

Am I rich? Nah. I'll be lucky to break $25K this year. But this is the better way to live, I'm convinced.
 
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RDKirk

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Keep in context. Yeah, Jesus did mention tithing but you forget to note whom he was speaking to. He spoke to a Pharisee who was still required to tithe. Big difference from NT believers who are no longer required to tithe but instead to give joyfully - to others in need - not the church.

Indeed.

As I mentioned earlier, during the period of the early church the temple still stood and Jews were still tithing according to the Mosaic Law.

If the apostles had believed that the Mosaic Law requirement to tithe continued for the Church, they'd have told the Christians to go to Jerusalem and tithe and the scriptures would say that. But clearly they never did that.
 
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It seems like I got a lot of good answers here. Basically, if I want to tithe, fine. But it’s not a requirement (for salvation, or Christian living at all.) Giving generously and willingly in any regard is pleasing to God.

Hmmm.... in some cases, like not giving (i.e. not loving) in regards to a brother who may be struggling or suffering of hunger can be a problem with God.

"But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?" (1 John 3:17).

15 "If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (James 2:15-17).
 
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Hmmm.... in some cases, like not giving (i.e. not loving) in regards to a brother who may be struggling or suffering of hunger can be a problem with God.

"But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?" (1 John 3:17).

15 "If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (James 2:15-17).


Not sure where you're going with this but I never did imply that the passage you mentioned didn't apply. Hence where I said, giving and giving generously.
 
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Not sure where you're going with this but I never did imply that the passage you mentioned didn't apply. Hence where I said, giving and giving generously.

You said giving does not relate to our salvation. Based on the two pieces of Scripture I have shown, I am saying I disagree. I would say in certain cases where a believer neglects to help a starving or poor brother (When we are in abundance to surely help them) is a problem for God. For loving your brother (loving your neighbor) is in in essence: loving God, See 1 John 4:20). Most will see this as "works heresy" in the fact that you have to do something as a part of God's Kingdom to continue to be right with the Lord; However, in reality we do actually have to love in our actions as a part of being within His good Kingdom (Because God cares about what is good and right). For the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness (Matthew 25:30). The servant who did not help the poor was cast into everlasting fire (Matthew 25:31-46). He that hates his brother is like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in him (1 John 3:15). Jesus says to us that if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17). Granted, we cannot keep the commandments unless we are first saved by God's grace and we are ultimately trusting in His grace for our salvation. But folks do not seem to understand that we actually have to be good in order to be a follower of Jesus Christ. For God is good.

I know you may disagree, and that is okay.
But it is what I believe in good conscience the Scriptures say.

Anyways, may the Lord bless you today;
And may you please be well.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.
 
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You said giving does not relate to our salvation. Based on the two pieces of Scripture I have shown, I am saying I disagree. I would say in certain cases where a believer neglects to help a starving or poor brother (When we are in abundance to surely help them) is a problem for God. For loving your brother (loving your neighbor) is in in essence: loving God, See 1 John 4:20). Most will see this as "works heresy" in the fact that you have to do something as a part of God's Kingdom to continue to be right with the Lord; However, in reality we do actually have to love in our actions as a part of being within His good Kingdom (Because God cares about what is good and right). For the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness (Matthew 25:30). The servant who did not help the poor was cast into everlasting fire (Matthew 25:31-46). He that hates his brother is like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in him (1 John 3:15). Jesus says to us that if you will enter into life, keep the commandments (Matthew 19:17). Granted, we cannot keep the commandments unless we are first saved by God's grace and we are ultimately trusting in His grace for our salvation. But folks do not seem to understand that we actually have to be good in order to be a follower of Jesus Christ. For God is good.

I know you may disagree, and that is okay.
But it is what I believe in good conscience the Scriptures say.

Anyways, may the Lord bless you today;
And may you please be well.

Sincerely,

~ Jason.


Probably the best "I disagree" reply ever. I wish everyone was like you. And you're right. I 100% disagree just so you know. However, I do agree in a sense that, if one really does believe what they say they do, they will do as it says. They won't have the "God will forgive me" mentality.
 
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My teastomony re tithing
For more than 15 years I tithed because I was taught “don’t tithe and be cursed ; Tithe and you will be blessed that much that you won’t be able to contain it. Of course there were the usual scriptures to back up what was being preached so I thought that I was being obedient to God. We were always struggling financially and on two occasions I went to the elder/councillors and asked why it wasn’t working for me. I told them what I was earning and asked them if I was mismanaging my money. They didn’t say that I was mismanaging my money. I asked them if there was any sin in my life that I needed to address. They didn’t say that there was sin to be addressed. The first time I saw them they said that my problem was a spirit of poverty, even though the preaching was “Test God , pay your tithe and God will bless you”. They cast out the perceived spirit. Nothing changed. The second time I went to them they said that my problem was that I was not believing God i.e. I wasn’t exercising enough faith even though they preached just pay your money and test God, the blessings are guaranteed. I tried to believe and have faith for the blessings but things just got worse.

I got to the point that although I had faithfully tithed for over fifteen years I didn’t have enough money to pay a bill for servicing my car and feed my family and pay my tithe. I knew that I was supposed to pay the tithe and money would miraculously appear or someone would give us food. I considered the situation. If I didn’t pay my tithe God would curse me, if I didn’t provide for my family then the scripture said that I had denied the faith and was worse than an infidel, and if I didn’t pay my bill I would be a bad witness for Christ. I decided that the only thing to do was not to tithe. I decided that it would be better to be cursed of God than to be a bad witness or a bad provider. I wondered that if the blessings haven’t arrived after over fifteen years, then would the curse take that long also.

It was then that I got really really desperate. The teaching was all backed up with scripture, I had followed that teaching, I had had a spirit of poverty cast out and I had believed to the best of my ability, but it simply wasn’t happening. I desperately cried out to God to show me what was wrong. I believed the word of God and I believed that I had been following it but it wasn’t happening. There must be something I wasn’t seeing. I turned to Malachi and read....

Mal 3:8 “Will a man rob God?
Yet you have robbed Me!
But you say,
‘In what way have we robbed You?’
In tithes and offerings.
9 You are cursed with a curse,
For you have robbed Me,

It was like a search light was on the word tithes. I had been trusting in these verses to be blessed and had paid a tithe and offerings. Now it suddenly dawned on me that I hadn’t fulfilled the conditions to be blessed and that meant I had been under “a curse”. The condition was pay tithes (that’s plural). The Israelites had three different tithes to pay. I had paid one tithe which meant that I was robbing God of the other two. Now I had a problem. How was I going to pay three tithes on my gross income, and I had fifteen years of second and third tithes to pay and not only that the scripture said I had to add a fifth for the late payment. This meant that if I paid every cent of my wages after tax to the church it would take many years to catch up and be blessed. Now a second thing dawned on me. That was that all these tithing regulations were in the law of Moses.

Gal 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law,(tithing) are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law,(tithing) is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”[f] 12 The law,(tithing) is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”[g] 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law,(tithing) by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”[h] 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Now the scariest thing about this is in

Gal 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. (tithing)

2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised,(receive tithing), Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised,(receives the law of tithing), that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

So I stopped tithing and God has blessed us.

Ps I believe in being as generous as we can.
blessings
 
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Mountainmanbob

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Malachi 3:10 comes to mind each time its brought up. I have failed in this regard.

Could anyone share testimonies on tithing with me? We're not doing so well financially, my wife and I. Its hard to wrap my head around making it and not having to duck bills by paying out more money. Just being honest as a human who is slow to learn.

After many years of thinking about this subject, it seems best to give what comes from the heart and that one can afford. One thing for sure God blesses givers but, it's best not to let the right hand know what the left hand is doing. Pretty hard for us people cuz as soon as we're not paying attention we have a tendency to get a little puffed up in ourselves.

We find it best to give what we can and thank God that we have those monies to give. For it is God only that supplies all of our needs.

M-Bob
 
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Danthemailman

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Many churches teach that we as Christians, under the New Covenant, are commanded to give a minimum of 10% of our income to our church. Others teach that preachers of these churches are turning the 10% tithe from the Old Testament for Israel into a monetary, legalistic prescription for Christians under the New Covenant. I even once heard a Pastor make a challenge to his congregation to give 10% of their income for 90 days and if God does not bless them then he will give them their money back. :rolleyes:

In 2 Corinthians 9:5-7 we read: Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren to go to you ahead of time, and prepare your generous gift beforehand, which you had previously promised, that it may be ready as a matter of generosity and not as a grudging obligation. But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

I don't see a "specific percentage" given anywhere for Christians to give "under the New Covenant," but I certainly believe in giving and not just to our church. I also believe that everything we own belongs to God and we certainly can't out give God.
 
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Redd5

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My teastomony re tithing
For more than 15 years I tithed because I was taught “don’t tithe and be cursed ; Tithe and you will be blessed that much that you won’t be able to contain it. Of course there were the usual scriptures to back up what was being preached so I thought that I was being obedient to God. We were always struggling financially and on two occasions I went to the elder/councillors and asked why it wasn’t working for me. I told them what I was earning and asked them if I was mismanaging my money. They didn’t say that I was mismanaging my money. I asked them if there was any sin in my life that I needed to address. They didn’t say that there was sin to be addressed. The first time I saw them they said that my problem was a spirit of poverty, even though the preaching was “Test God , pay your tithe and God will bless you”. They cast out the perceived spirit. Nothing changed. The second time I went to them they said that my problem was that I was not believing God i.e. I wasn’t exercising enough faith even though they preached just pay your money and test God, the blessings are guaranteed. I tried to believe and have faith for the blessings but things just got worse.

I got to the point that although I had faithfully tithed for over fifteen years I didn’t have enough money to pay a bill for servicing my car and feed my family and pay my tithe. I knew that I was supposed to pay the tithe and money would miraculously appear or someone would give us food. I considered the situation. If I didn’t pay my tithe God would curse me, if I didn’t provide for my family then the scripture said that I had denied the faith and was worse than an infidel, and if I didn’t pay my bill I would be a bad witness for Christ. I decided that the only thing to do was not to tithe. I decided that it would be better to be cursed of God than to be a bad witness or a bad provider. I wondered that if the blessings haven’t arrived after over fifteen years, then would the curse take that long also.

It was then that I got really really desperate. The teaching was all backed up with scripture, I had followed that teaching, I had had a spirit of poverty cast out and I had believed to the best of my ability, but it simply wasn’t happening. I desperately cried out to God to show me what was wrong. I believed the word of God and I believed that I had been following it but it wasn’t happening. There must be something I wasn’t seeing. I turned to Malachi and read....

Mal 3:8 “Will a man rob God?
Yet you have robbed Me!
But you say,
‘In what way have we robbed You?’
In tithes and offerings.
9 You are cursed with a curse,
For you have robbed Me,
It was like a search light was on the word tithes. I had been trusting in these verses to be blessed and had paid a tithe and offerings. Now it suddenly dawned on me that I hadn’t fulfilled the conditions to be blessed and that meant I had been under “a curse”. The condition was pay tithes (that’s plural). The Israelites had three different tithes to pay. I had paid one tithe which meant that I was robbing God of the other two. Now I had a problem. How was I going to pay three tithes on my gross income, and I had fifteen years of second and third tithes to pay and not only that the scripture said I had to add a fifth for the late payment. This meant that if I paid every cent of my wages after tax to the church it would take many years to catch up and be blessed. Now a second thing dawned on me. That was that all these tithing regulations were in the law of Moses.

Gal 3:10 For all who rely on the works of the law,(tithing) are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11 Clearly no one who relies on the law,(tithing) is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.”[f] 12 The law,(tithing) is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, “The person who does these things will live by them.”[g] 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law,(tithing) by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a pole.”[h] 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

Now the scariest thing about this is in

Gal 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. (tithing)

2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised,(receive tithing), Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised,(receives the law of tithing), that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

So I stopped tithing and God has blessed us.

Ps I believe in being as generous as we can.
blessings

I’m doing my best to restrain my all out assault on tithe teachers, which unfortunately are pretty much all of them around where I live... they are so worried about their income though they love to say that they are not (30-45 mins a week on the subject would say otherwise)...I’m so glad that you have discovered the truth friend. Remember what Jesus said about tithing: it was a minor matter (less important) OF THE LAW. And there is not one example of a Christian or non-agriculturally professioned person tithing in the Bible. There was no tithing under the new cov. And gentiles (you) were never invited or even allowed to partake in any part of the law anyways! Not that you should want to!
 
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GardenLady

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This is something that the Mister and I are talking about now. Having attended various churches sporadically and putting cash in the plate/basket, we are now becoming members of a church and will be giving regularly. We are both retired, with no pensions, and living on savings/IRAs and his Social Security (I will start SS next year). Sometime in the next week or two we will make a decision and set up regular automatic monthly payments, plus will give extra donations and Christmas and Easter as well as donating to food drives, etc.
 
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