Tithing

[lost-sheep]

I have a question for you all.

Several months ago I was attending a very small church that was just starting. I felt spiritually compelled to tithe 20% of my income. This is a large percentage for me as I am unemployed and going to college. The church ended up not making in and as I have looked for a new church I have still set aside 20% of my income aside for tithes but have not given it.

Question one: would you feel wrong if you were to take half of what has been put aside to go back to 10% of income or to take any of it what so ever?
two: would you continue to set aside the 20% you were for the small church?
three: I know 10% is really isnt any set minimum but its the normal... so how do you determine how much you will tithe?

Thanks for the help, God bless!

 

[ezeric]

Dear Lost-sheep

Your question is loaded, and been asked many times on this forum.

I used to be a good christian, youth leader, bible college/school
student and taught in my church (building)... the gamut.

When I got married, we thought if 10% is good - then 20%
must be better! And after reading Malachi and going to all that
bible school from grade 7 to some bible college - I thought,
I knew...

What happened to the newlywed couple so 'gung ho' for JESUS?

We lost everything, and newly married...talk about a mess, and stress!

Where was GOD in all this?
How did things go worse, instead of blessed?
What about the windows of heaven, so much that I couldn't contain it?
(see Malachi 3:10)

Ah...

I thought it out, and got the answer (or so I foolishly thought)

I remembered that technicality, I am supposed to do this 'joyfully'.

So, we tried and tried to be joyful, as the creditors were
repossessing our things, then our cars, finally our home...

What a dark (I thought it was supposed to be light), broke (It should have been abundant life), fearful (It should have been faith).

What was going on?????

So, I got angry.

Angry at myself...
Angry at GOD - I mean REAL Anger at HIM!

You know what it taught me? (it took a long while though).

HE IS TOO BIG - HE isn't threatened or alarmed at my outburst.
I am not the first guy who has done that (or the last guy for that matter).

And also what I learned, was that HE designed it...Its for our good.
You must come to the end of yourself, to find the treasure.
You must lose your life - to find it.
You must die so that you can live.

I was lost (a lost christian).
A broke christian
A angry christian
A confused christian

You know what is at the end of all your effort?
I mean, at the real end of your self, after all the singing,
all the giving, all the prayers, all the trying, all the posturing,
all the talk...

JESUS

I found this formula.

JESUS plus tithing = nothing, zero
JESUS plus my church = nothing, zero
JESUS plus my devotion = nothing, zero
JESUS plus my schooling = nothing, zero

Didn't Paul mention this too? See Philippians 3 (esp 8)

The formula is real simple, a child would get it.

Paul said "I have been crucified with CHRIST" Galatians 2:20
John said, "HE must increase, I must decrease" John 3:30

The formula is this:

JESUS ONLY = Everything!

Its GRACE (or HIS LOVE in action toward you) alone.

What you die to, you gain real life in exchange.

Everything in our lives has changed since then.

I mean everything, miracles, favor, blessings, you name it!

And the Freedom is out of this world.

And about giving...ha...its so easy and so much fun!
You give out of love - HIS LOVE motivates you to do.
Paul said "it compels him". 2 Corinthians 5:14

Wow - its real easy, HIS burden is easy and light.

What GRACE, I guess that is why we always put
the word 'amazing' infront of GRACE.

-eric


The Exchanged Life

 

[SullivanZ]

Tithing is old testament. You're not required to keep it.

Otherwise, you must keep all the law, all 613 commandments - which no Christians do.

 

[GaryLee]

JESUS ONLY = Everything!

Some one is forgetting the Father in Heaven.

If you want to know, ask the Father in Heaven.

 

[Gabe7]

Help the poor.

 

[Lee52]

ezeric and sullivanZ, know exactly what they are saying to you. Internalize what they have said. God knows you have needs in life on this earth. Surrender everything in your life to Him. As you need to pay a bill, pay it. As you need to buy food, buy it. But before you start, ask God to provide you enough to give back joyfully. If you see a man or woman on the street corner with a cardboard sign, if the Holy Spirit leads you to give them a quarter or a dollar or ten, give it to them joyfully. If the Holy Spirit leads you to not give to them, do not.

Ask God to give you the financial means to meet others' needs from time to time, in Jesus Name. He says we have not because we ask not, OR, we ask with the wrong motivation. Do not listen to the HWP preachers on TV that are gazillionaires, listen to the Holy Spirit. Seek to have the heart of a servant of God to meet peoples' needs. God knows you have needs. He will meet your needs and provide opportunities for you to meet others' needs, if your focus is in the right place. Store up treasures in Heaven, not on this earth.

Be blessed, and be FREE in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior,
Lee52

 

[heron]

Well, I will support you in the tithing doctrine. But I wonder if God prompted you to give 20% at that time, because He knew that you would be facing this gap in churches now, and didn't want you to feel guilty.

Make sure you are meeting some needs that come across your way. Carry around some 20's for times you hear people are in need (empty envelopes are handy for nonchalant/secret gestures).

What God has given you, still belongs to Him. You should not be obligated by preachers, as stated above... but still be obligated to show God that you are not clinging to what He has given you.

Twenty percent was a generous gesture from you to God. He did not command it of you. Notice that Cain and Abel were not commanded to give anything to God (even though preachers claim they were), but they got into so much competition over their giving that one ended up dead. God warned not to be jealous or hold on to bitterness.

It is a good time to look at whether you are trying to one-up other believers, to get God's approval. You don't need to confess anything to us -- it's not our business.

It is just a human tendency to want to please God and throw virgins into volcanoes. Okay, not all of us want to do that.

Read through what God asked of people. The original tithes were part of an entire governmental system that took care of priests, widows, orphans, and dislocated workers. The offerings related to penitence and gratefulness (harvest, sin offerings).

Put together, the tithes and offerings represented more than ten percent of income. But at the time given, there were no taxes, and the Law was given to be carried out in the Promised Land and onward, establishing their theocracy. What was given helped pay for certain judicial and medical services, in addition to temple expenses. And festival food.

God knows your heart. Keep the ten percent in your mind for yourself, because it's a great practice for every society to be in a generous mindset. We can only learn that by doing it ourselves.

 

[tturt]

Since Jesus watched the "offering plate," that's reason enough for me to give tithes.

Concerning the amounts - Just ask Him.

 

[AWorkInProgress]

I have a question for you all.

Several months ago I was attending a very small church that was just starting. I felt spiritually compelled to tithe 20% of my income. This is a large percentage for me as I am unemployed and going to college. The church ended up not making in and as I have looked for a new church I have still set aside 20% of my income aside for tithes but have not given it.

Question one: would you feel wrong if you were to take half of what has been put aside to go back to 10% of income or to take any of it what so ever?
two: would you continue to set aside the 20% you were for the small church?
three: I know 10% is really isnt any set minimum but its the normal... so how do you determine how much you will tithe?

Thanks for the help, God bless!

Hey bud,

The tithe is 10% of your first fruits to God. This is obedience.

Genesis 14:17-20 NIV
17 After Abram returned from defeating Kedorlaomer and the kings allied with him, the king of Sodom came out to meet him in the Valley of Shaveh (that is, the King’s Valley).

18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High, 19 and he blessed Abram, saying,

“Blessed be Abram by God Most High,
Creator of heaven and earth.
20 And praise be to God Most High,
who delivered your enemies into your hand.”

Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.

Before the Law was given to Moses. Abram(ham) recognized, with the priest's help, that all he achieved and plundered was by God with him.

Now whatever the Lord places on your heart on top of 10% is actually worship. The Offerings go to the ministries within the church. Whether to help the church itself, to pantry ministry, outreach, or whatever the Lord puts on your heart to help fund.

I totally agree with Ezeric with his testimony on attitude on how you give. God loves a cheerful giver. (get reference when I get back)

A study on the Tithe and Offerings is really insightful. I recommend you look for yourself so that you really grasp it.

 

[lost-sheep]

JESUS ONLY = Everything!

Some one is forgetting the Father in Heaven.

If you want to know, ask the Father in Heaven.

I have been. I just wanted opinions other then my own too.

ezeric and sullivanZ, know exactly what they are saying to you. Internalize what they have said. God knows you have needs in life on this earth. Surrender everything in your life to Him. As you need to pay a bill, pay it. As you need to buy food, buy it. But before you start, ask God to provide you enough to give back joyfully. If you see a man or woman on the street corner with a cardboard sign, if the Holy Spirit leads you to give them a quarter or a dollar or ten, give it to them joyfully. If the Holy Spirit leads you to not give to them, do not.

Ask God to give you the financial means to meet others' needs from time to time, in Jesus Name. He says we have not because we ask not, OR, we ask with the wrong motivation. Do not listen to the HWP preachers on TV that are gazillionaires, listen to the Holy Spirit. Seek to have the heart of a servant of God to meet peoples' needs. God knows you have needs. He will meet your needs and provide opportunities for you to meet others' needs, if your focus is in the right place. Store up treasures in Heaven, not on this earth.

Be blessed, and be FREE in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior,
Lee52

I am more then happy to give Him what I am and He has provided with me more then I could ever imagine.

Well, I will support you in the tithing doctrine. But I wonder if God prompted you to give 20% at that time, because He knew that you would be facing this gap in churches now, and didn't want you to feel guilty.

Make sure you are meeting some needs that come across your way. Carry around some 20's for times you hear people are in need (empty envelopes are handy for nonchalant/secret gestures).

What God has given you, still belongs to Him. You should not be obligated by preachers, as stated above... but still be obligated to show God that you are not clinging to what He has given you.

Twenty percent was a generous gesture from you to God. He did not command it of you. Notice that Cain and Abel were not commanded to give anything to God (even though preachers claim they were), but they got into so much competition over their giving that one ended up dead. God warned not to be jealous or hold on to bitterness.

It is a good time to look at whether you are trying to one-up other believers, to get God's approval. You don't need to confess anything to us -- it's not our business.

It is just a human tendency to want to please God and throw virgins into volcanoes. Okay, not all of us want to do that.

Read through what God asked of people. The original tithes were part of an entire governmental system that took care of priests, widows, orphans, and dislocated workers. The offerings related to penitence and gratefulness (harvest, sin offerings).

Put together, the tithes and offerings represented more than ten percent of income. But at the time given, there were no taxes, and the Law was given to be carried out in the Promised Land and onward, establishing their theocracy. What was given helped pay for certain judicial and medical services, in addition to temple expenses. And festival food.

God knows your heart. Keep the ten percent in your mind for yourself, because it's a great practice for every society to be in a generous mindset. We can only learn that by doing it ourselves.

there is no trying to one up another... only one or two people who know me MAY actually have an idea what i tithe... and thats part of the reason I asked here is because I dont want people to know what I tithe and this forum provides privacy. for all you may know I may be your neighbor


What this all came from was doing my monthly budget and seeing how thin everything is and trying to figure out how I can afford moving out of my parents house.

Thank you all for the input

 

[singpeace]

Lost Sheep,
Note: The word 'tithe' is Hebrew for 'tenth'.
Also, notice that by keeping this one commandment and challenge of God, He gives back 7 promises. I would give that 20% to the homeless shelter or to the tornado victims - out of sight - out of mind. At least for now. Certainly pray about it, and let the peace of God's Holy Spirit guide you.



Malachi 3:10-12

10. Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

11. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.

12And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.


1 commandment:

Bring your tithe into the storehouse.



7 promises:

I will open you the windows of heaven and pour you out a blessing.
You won't have room enough to receive it.
I will rebuke the devourer for your sake.
The enemy will not destroy the fruit of your ground.
Your vine will not cast its fruit before the time in the field.
All the nations shall call you blessed.
You will be a delightsome land

 

[thesunisout]

I have a question for you all.

Several months ago I was attending a very small church that was just starting. I felt spiritually compelled to tithe 20% of my income. This is a large percentage for me as I am unemployed and going to college. The church ended up not making in and as I have looked for a new church I have still set aside 20% of my income aside for tithes but have not given it.

Question one: would you feel wrong if you were to take half of what has been put aside to go back to 10% of income or to take any of it what so ever?
two: would you continue to set aside the 20% you were for the small church?
three: I know 10% is really isnt any set minimum but its the normal... so how do you determine how much you will tithe?

Thanks for the help, God bless!

Well, in this instance, you had set aside a larger amount than you might of because the Church was new. It doesn't mean you have to give 20 percent to every church from now on, necessarily. It depends really on what you feel called to do. It's your decision how much you want to give. God never commanded us to give a specific amount. So, do what you feel is right in your heart, what will settle your worries. If your need for money is driving this questioning, remember also that you can't serve two masters. God bless.

 

[GaryArnold]

@singpeace,

Let’s look at Malachi 3. First, who is God speaking to – the priests or the people?
We need to study the entire Book of Malachi rather than take a few verses out of context.

By the time we get to verse 6 in chapter 1, we see it is the priests that are being addressed at that point.

In both chapters 1 and 2 of Malachi there is a conversation going on between God and the priests. Every time the word "you" is used, it is referring to the priests. Chapter 3 continues with this conversation. In verse 5 God says "And I will come near to you to judgment….." In the Old Testament, during this period of time and generally speaking, only the priests could get near to God. It is only in the New Testament that born again believers, you and I, can get close to God. So up to chapter 3 verse 5, God is speaking to the priests. The word "you" is still referring to the priests. There is nothing in the scripture to indicate this changes when you get to verse 8. But that's not all.

Read Numbers 18:29-30 and then read Malachi 1:14. Those verses explain robbing God of the offerings. The PRIESTS, not the people, robbed God of the offering by giving to God the worst instead of the best.

In Nehemiah 13 we are told that the priests stole the Levites portion of the tithe; therefore, they had no food to eat at the temple, and they went back to their own fields.

Therefore, taking the Levites portion of the tithe is the robbing God of the tithe. Or to put it another way, THE LEVITES WERE ROBBED. God said He was robbed because the tithe was not taken where God directed.

Next, in Malachi 3:10 God says to bring all the tithes to the storehouse. The people took the tithes to the Levites who lived in the Levitical cities, not to the temple. The Levites took the required tithe of the tithe to the temple. (See Nehemiah 10:37-38) Only those tithes ever made it to the temple. The priests then took those tithes to the storehouse. It only makes sense if God is speaking to the priests in this verse.

Since in Numbers 18 God makes it perfectly clear that the tithe belongs to Him, and He gave it to the Levites, anyone who takes God’s tithe to their local church must also be robbing God since the Levites are not the ones getting it.

I see no way around this. Either the tithe ended per Hebrews 7:18, OR those who take God’s tithe to their local church must be robbing God since God gave clear instructions where to take His tithe. There is nothing in God’s Word to show that God ever changed those instructions. Therefore, the only conclusion I can reach is that taking a tithe to your local church is NOT paying the tithe to God. It is giving it to man. Nowhere in God’s Word does He give permission for the Christian Church to receive His tithe.

Therefore, IT IS A SIN AGAINST GOD to take God’s tithe to your local church. IT IS A SIN for any pastor to accept God’s tithe.