If I did or did not do things according to the wishes of my own heart....I would surely fall into disobedience. Better His will be done.
Great quote.
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tithing?
- Thread starter blessed2
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I don't really know much about Messianic Judaism and came across this thread from a search, but anyway. The Tithe that dares not say it's name is found in Deut 14:28 and already mentioned by debi b :
Deu 14:28 At the end of three years you shall bring forth all the tithe of your increase the same year, and shall lay it up inside your gates.
29 And the Levite, because he has no part nor inheritance with you, and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, who are inside your gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied, so that Jehovah your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do.
This is a 3 yearly tithe. How many times has your pastor mentioned this at offering time, but will happily hammer on about Malachi 3 week after week.
Listen to Deut 26:12
(CEV) Every year you are to give ten percent of your harvest to the LORD. But every third year, this ten percent must be given to the poor who live in your town, including Levites, foreigners, orphans, and widows. That way, they will have enough to eat.
In Malachi, the figure is not fixed because it depends on what year in the cycle you are in. When he says ALL of the tithes, he doesn't mean all of 10%, but all of the 10%s or tithes (that are due that year). I hope this makes sense.
Either follow it to the letter and claim the blessings, or ignore it as part of a different dispensation, but don't be selective. Remember that Mal 3 is a two sided message, and the devil doesn't care if you are ignorant of your OT blessings and cursings.
peace,
Jon
Deu 14:28 At the end of three years you shall bring forth all the tithe of your increase the same year, and shall lay it up inside your gates.
29 And the Levite, because he has no part nor inheritance with you, and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, who are inside your gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied, so that Jehovah your God may bless you in all the work of your hand which you do.
This is a 3 yearly tithe. How many times has your pastor mentioned this at offering time, but will happily hammer on about Malachi 3 week after week.
Listen to Deut 26:12
(CEV) Every year you are to give ten percent of your harvest to the LORD. But every third year, this ten percent must be given to the poor who live in your town, including Levites, foreigners, orphans, and widows. That way, they will have enough to eat.
In Malachi, the figure is not fixed because it depends on what year in the cycle you are in. When he says ALL of the tithes, he doesn't mean all of 10%, but all of the 10%s or tithes (that are due that year). I hope this makes sense.
Either follow it to the letter and claim the blessings, or ignore it as part of a different dispensation, but don't be selective. Remember that Mal 3 is a two sided message, and the devil doesn't care if you are ignorant of your OT blessings and cursings.
peace,
Jon
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Quote:
, that we should give according to what we have decided in our heart,
If I did or did not do things according to the wishes of my own heart....I would surely fall into disobedience. Better His will be done.
What I meant was according to 2 Cor 9:7
(ASV) Let each man do according as he hath purposed in his heart: not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
Jon
, that we should give according to what we have decided in our heart,
If I did or did not do things according to the wishes of my own heart....I would surely fall into disobedience. Better His will be done.
What I meant was according to 2 Cor 9:7
(ASV) Let each man do according as he hath purposed in his heart: not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
Jon
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This is my first post ever at christianforums. So I don't even know for sure if I can find this thread again since I found it via a forum search. I'll try though.
It is my contention that one cannot tithe today. If we want to know if we should or not, and if we think we should, how, when, where, then we have to look to the Word of God. It is only there that we can know.
When my wife and I did a study of this in the late '70's, we decided to forget men's books and just look at the Word. It didn't take very long to see that if one is going to tithe according to how the Word says to, then they can't. The system of the tithe is no longer in existence.
When faced with the fact that we are no longer under the law, those that teach tithing will say that tithing was around before the Law and they will cite Abraham giving a tenth of the spoils of war to Melchizedech. Well, that was voluntary and it wasn't from Abraham's own, personal wealth or belongings. So too were circumcision and burnt offerings before the Law. Why don't we do those today? Why only something where money is involved? The tithe was not to be money. If one's tithe in Israel was too great to transport to the place that the Lord had designated the tithe to be taken, he was allowed to sell it for money, take the money to the designated place and there, purchase back what would be his tithe. But he wasn't supposed to give money. All of this is clear in Deuteronomy 14ish? It's best to look it up using a concordance. After stating that the tithe was around before the Law, those who teach tithing for today procede to use the Law to pressure believers into "tithing". John McArthur has some good teaching on this. He teaches against tithing, but has good scripture to back it.
As for giving to the poor? Do it. Giving to a church is not always bad, but I don't think it is wise to let our giving be used for frivolous things. i.e. "Our carpeting is ok, but we really want a new color." Thousands wasted. Padded pews instead of benches? Sheeessshhh.... At least in America, life is too easy. I hope you get my point.
Read 1 John 3:17, Matthew 25:31-46, James ....... these are our marching orders. Not bigger and better whatevers that only bring comfort to the flesh.
Bottom line? We can't tithe even if we want to. At least, not according to what the bible calls tithing. Don't help men build empires. Giving to a "church"? Go ahead. Just make sure it is what you can afford to give, have no thought of getting in return, and above all, make sure the money is doing something to further the effort of others being brought into the Kingdom of God, not making those that are already there, more comfy. We/they don't need it. Deuteronomy 8 has a sound warning for us in this regard.
Laura, you keep that gentle, loving spirit that you seem to have and do as our Lord leads. An oft used scriptural line is "you reap what you sow ...... sow a little, reap a little; sow a lot, reap a lot. That is New Testament as well.
2 Corinthians 9:
6 *¶But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7 *Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
8 *And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
9 *(As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
Blessings,
AlwaysLearning
It is my contention that one cannot tithe today. If we want to know if we should or not, and if we think we should, how, when, where, then we have to look to the Word of God. It is only there that we can know.
When my wife and I did a study of this in the late '70's, we decided to forget men's books and just look at the Word. It didn't take very long to see that if one is going to tithe according to how the Word says to, then they can't. The system of the tithe is no longer in existence.
When faced with the fact that we are no longer under the law, those that teach tithing will say that tithing was around before the Law and they will cite Abraham giving a tenth of the spoils of war to Melchizedech. Well, that was voluntary and it wasn't from Abraham's own, personal wealth or belongings. So too were circumcision and burnt offerings before the Law. Why don't we do those today? Why only something where money is involved? The tithe was not to be money. If one's tithe in Israel was too great to transport to the place that the Lord had designated the tithe to be taken, he was allowed to sell it for money, take the money to the designated place and there, purchase back what would be his tithe. But he wasn't supposed to give money. All of this is clear in Deuteronomy 14ish? It's best to look it up using a concordance. After stating that the tithe was around before the Law, those who teach tithing for today procede to use the Law to pressure believers into "tithing". John McArthur has some good teaching on this. He teaches against tithing, but has good scripture to back it.
As for giving to the poor? Do it. Giving to a church is not always bad, but I don't think it is wise to let our giving be used for frivolous things. i.e. "Our carpeting is ok, but we really want a new color." Thousands wasted. Padded pews instead of benches? Sheeessshhh.... At least in America, life is too easy. I hope you get my point.
Read 1 John 3:17, Matthew 25:31-46, James ....... these are our marching orders. Not bigger and better whatevers that only bring comfort to the flesh.
Bottom line? We can't tithe even if we want to. At least, not according to what the bible calls tithing. Don't help men build empires. Giving to a "church"? Go ahead. Just make sure it is what you can afford to give, have no thought of getting in return, and above all, make sure the money is doing something to further the effort of others being brought into the Kingdom of God, not making those that are already there, more comfy. We/they don't need it. Deuteronomy 8 has a sound warning for us in this regard.
Laura, you keep that gentle, loving spirit that you seem to have and do as our Lord leads. An oft used scriptural line is "you reap what you sow ...... sow a little, reap a little; sow a lot, reap a lot. That is New Testament as well.
2 Corinthians 9:
6 *¶But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7 *Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
8 *And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
9 *(As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever.
Blessings,
AlwaysLearning
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Henaynei
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Shalom to all our visiting posters 
I want to welcome you and greet you in the joy and brotherhood of Messiah
Before you post further I encourage you to review our forum rules. Every forum on CF has some rules and is is usually a grand idea to review those carefully before posting in any given forum, specially the denominational forums. We ernestly encourage your questions and look forward to fellowship.
Here is an excerpt from the MJ fourms guidelines you may find useful:
Shalom and again, Barukh HaBa/Welcome
Henaynei
Moderator
I want to welcome you and greet you in the joy and brotherhood of Messiah
Before you post further I encourage you to review our forum rules. Every forum on CF has some rules and is is usually a grand idea to review those carefully before posting in any given forum, specially the denominational forums
. We ernestly encourage your questions and look forward to fellowship.Here is an excerpt from the MJ fourms guidelines you may find useful:
One's denominational affiliation is denoted by the faith icon they choose. Messianics, therefore choose the Messianic icon (see the scroll in my header), and are thus identifiedMessianic Judaism Forum Rules said:
Shalom and again, Barukh HaBa/Welcome
Henaynei
Moderator
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Sorry ........ got it.
I got here by doing a search so I didn't see the rule. Thank you for pointing it out.
Lord bless.
AlwaysLearning
I got here by doing a search so I didn't see the rule. Thank you for pointing it out.
Lord bless.
AlwaysLearning
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Henaynei
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Jump in and ask questions *anytime*, really - and start or join in on any fellowship/chattin' threads tooalwayslearning said:
G-d bless you too!!!
Henaynei
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Here's my favorite passage regarding the law of the tithe:
Deuteronomy 14
22"You must set aside a tithe of your crops--one-tenth of all the crops you harvest each year. 23Bring this tithe to the place the LORD your God chooses for his name to be honored, and eat it there in his presence. This applies to your tithes of grain, new wine, olive oil, and the firstborn males of your flocks and herds. The purpose of tithing is to teach you always to fear the LORD your God. 24Now the place the LORD your God chooses for his name to be honored might be a long way from your home. 25If so, you may sell the tithe portion of your crops and herds and take the money to the place the LORD your God chooses. 26When you arrive, use the money to buy anything you want--an ox, a sheep, some wine, or beer. Then feast there in the presence of the LORD your God and celebrate with your household. 27And do not forget the Levites in your community, for they have no inheritance as you do.
Mmmmmmm?
Deuteronomy 14
22"You must set aside a tithe of your crops--one-tenth of all the crops you harvest each year. 23Bring this tithe to the place the LORD your God chooses for his name to be honored, and eat it there in his presence. This applies to your tithes of grain, new wine, olive oil, and the firstborn males of your flocks and herds. The purpose of tithing is to teach you always to fear the LORD your God. 24Now the place the LORD your God chooses for his name to be honored might be a long way from your home. 25If so, you may sell the tithe portion of your crops and herds and take the money to the place the LORD your God chooses. 26When you arrive, use the money to buy anything you want--an ox, a sheep, some wine, or beer. Then feast there in the presence of the LORD your God and celebrate with your household. 27And do not forget the Levites in your community, for they have no inheritance as you do.
Mmmmmmm?
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Henaynei
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Yes - LOL - the pulpit pounders proporting the tithe to their populace rarely can be found quoting that one LOL - Oh, that's right - that is the Old Law hand was nailed to the execution stakeJim B said:
eeny meeny miney mo.... pick a law, let the others go!
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Tithing - Those things that are pertaining to the Work of the Lord...spreading the gospel...prayerfully saved for the Lord's leading where He wants His portion to go.
Alms - Cheerful giving to those in need.
Alms - Cheerful giving to those in need.
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Now I'm just really confused.
Are we still to tithe? I'm no farmer so......
What are tithes to be used for? Do we still tithe?
I'm new to MJ so....what is the official word on this?
Do we tithe? If so how much and when and where.
If not, why.
Ok, I set 10% of my earnings back and usually play for the L-rd to guide me as to where it should go.....I give to the needs of others, to organizations that benefit the community and ministry of the L-rd. Is this right?
Are we still to tithe? I'm no farmer so......
What are tithes to be used for? Do we still tithe?
I'm new to MJ so....what is the official word on this?
Do we tithe? If so how much and when and where.
If not, why.
Ok, I set 10% of my earnings back and usually play for the L-rd to guide me as to where it should go.....I give to the needs of others, to organizations that benefit the community and ministry of the L-rd. Is this right?
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Henaynei
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FWIW - My husband and I don't tithe - because there is no Temple and we do not agree with the tendency of pastors and rabbis alike trying th usurp the position of the Temple. We DO however recognize the validity of supporting our local community of believers, for numerous reasons. We do give offerings. The amount varies, sometimes more, sometimes less than 10%. We also believe we are accountable to some degree for how these funds are used, but ultimately the one to whom they are given is responsible. *IF* we know the funds are being misused then we withdraw our support.blessed2 said:
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Yafet:simchat_torah said:I have a friend who was a Rabbi in Alaska (he recently moved to California... gee, I wonder why?
Anyway, he has written a rather large article on "tithing" in the Tenach, what it meant, how we are to continue in this practice, etc.
I think we all would benefit from it. I'll try to contact him and see if he can email to me.
shalom,
yafet
Were you ever able to get in touch with your friend regarding this topic?
Nathan
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I think that he is one of our new members, but I could be wrong, but could this be Mikhael? If it is prehaps he is willing to share this himself?
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I PM'ed him about it, and he said that he would post it when he had the chance. Very busy man, I'm assuming.Zayit said:I think that he is one of our new members, but I could be wrong, but could this be Mikhael? If it is prehaps he is willing to share this himself?
Nathan
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simchat_torah
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Actually, my friend is Mikha'el who posts here on our forums now...
Let's see if we can get him to share
Mike, you out there?
Let's see if we can get him to share
Mike, you out there?
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simchat_torah
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A few years back, my wife and I decided to do the same thing. We give money primarily to those who are in need... not to some building fund. However, if we feel a particular project warrants our pocketbooks then so be it.
then so be it.
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One of the largest reasons, I am so intrigued by this topic is because it was paramount in the direction of the L-rd to removing me from my former fellowship. As my eyes have been opened, I see that it is everywhere (just like swine). I, personally, do not agree with its teaching and the way it is administered. If you would like to see the short end of my discertation, just go to the Non-denominational Forum and type in tithe. You'll get to see me trying to discuss the issue with someone that is pro-tithe and never addresses conflicts.
Anyway... I await eagerly to see what Mikha'el writes.
Nathan
Anyway... I await eagerly to see what Mikha'el writes.
Nathan
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