Tithing/Speaking in Tongues

"So why can't I pray personal prayers in public?"

Didn't say you couldn't. If you're praying in tongues that's a different matter.

See that's what comfusses me.  If I praying personally to God in a service, under my breath so that no one can hear me, and I'm not praying for anyone; what difference does it make what language I use?  Why would it be anyone elses business.

"If I praying personally to God in a service, under my breath so that no one can hear me, and I'm not praying for anyone;"

One is a spiritual gift, one isn't One is SPECFICALLY talked about by paul, one isn't.

But it still boils down to one interpretation over another.  We have seen that praying in tongues as I have described has no more affect bearing on the church, congregation, or the confusion that might be in a service.  It all boils down to whether or not it is lawful.  But whether it is lawful or not is based soully on interetation.  there are just as many scholars here to argue one side as the other.  The only difference between the two is that one side is accually experiance with working with tongues.

teaching + experience out ways teaching

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"If I praying personally to God in a service, under my breath so that no one can hear me, and I'm not praying for anyone;"

One is a spiritual gift, one isn't One is SPECFICALLY talked about by paul, one isn't.

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Speaking in tongues is a spiritual Gift, and is premissible in private prayer times or in Public worship times.

Originally posted by SnuP
But it still boils down to one interpretation over another.  We have seen that praying in tongues as I have described has no more affect bearing on the church, congregation, or the confusion that might be in a service.  It all boils down to whether or not it is lawful.  But whether it is lawful or not is based soully on interetation.  there are just as many scholars here to argue one side as the other.  The only difference between the two is that one side is accually experiance with working with tongues.

teaching + experience out ways teaching

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AMEN!

Originally posted by SnuP
See that's what comfusses me.  If I praying personally to God in a service, under my breath so that no one can hear me, and I'm not praying for anyone; what difference does it make what language I use?  Why would it be anyone elses business.

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It's not anybody else's business.

According to (sorry if I rehash stuff already said) 1 Cor 14:2 "For one who speaks in an unknown tongue speaks not to men but to God, for no one understands or catches his meaning, because in the Holy Spirit he utters secret truths and hidden things not obvious to the understanding". (Amplified)

Verse 4 continues, "He who speaks in a strange tongue edifies and improves himself"

So, in the body of believers who speak in tongues, if the congregation is just praying and lot's of people are praying in tongues there does not need to be an intrepretation.  It's none of my business what my neighbor is praying about.  It's for personal edification and is offered to every believer who wants it. 

Verse 5, "Now I wish that you might all speak in unknown tongues".  Verse 12 "concentrate on striving to excell and to abound in them in ways that will build up the church".  Verse 15 "I will pray with my spirit and I will also pray with my mind and understanding".

If sometime during that corporate time of praying any one voice rises above the others it is generally a message in tongues from the Holy Spirit and is to be intrepretated by someone. 

If no one intreprets it, then the one who gave the tongue should pray for the intrepretation or on future occation, remain silent until it is known there is an intrepreter present. (1 Cor 14:27)

I am fluid in both.  So I speak from knowledge and experience.   If it is really needfull for someone to know what is being prayed for privately.  I can intrepret it that too. 

Quaffer please tell us about your experience in interpreting praying in tongues.

Originally posted by SnuP
Quaffer please tell us about your experience in interpreting praying in tongues.

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Snup,

I would be more than happy to share. 

The way one hears God speak will vary from person to person.  I've know people who "saw" the words written and read what they saw.  With me, I usually have the first sentence right away and I then have to step out and trust that God will give me the whole thing.  I've never had it fail yet.  I speak in a normal, natural tone of voice and talk the way I normally talk. 

Growing up in the penticostal church, I think that somewhere along the line, people thought they had to talk in King James english.  But that's not the way it happens with me. 

As far as interpreting praying in tongues, the times I have heard it or done it, it was such a blessing to the person who had prayed the tongue.  Hearing what their heart is speaking to the Lord was a great incouragement.  Usually, something similar to what we read coming from David in the book of Psalms.

When I pray in tongues, I will frequently begin to understand what I am praying for and then I can pray with my mind and my understanding.  But when I don't know what to say, the Spirit is never at a loss for words, so I let Him do it. 

Hope this helps someone . . .

Thanks for asking.

"The only difference between the two is that one side is accually experiance with working with tongues."

I'll take the bible over "experience" anyday, because some people with "experience" don't know God at all.

I've had experience with tongues, seen it misused in a varity of ways along with many other things. Thus why I am causious and quite biblical about it. You don't have to be, that' doesn't make you a nonchrisitan, just not biblical about tongues, that's all.

"So, in the body of believers who speak in tongues, if the congregation is just praying and lot's of people are praying in tongues there does not need to be an intrepretation. "

According to paul, you're wrong.

It accually sounds like you have allowed your experience to interprete the scripture for you, rather then the annointing.

When I have heard of those speak in tongues or give prophecies to the church, it isnt the issue with me whether or not its ok, the scriputures are very clear on it.
Ive seen,(heard) many different administrations of tongue, prophecies, interpetations, but the REAL point to SPEAKING ANYTHING is this.

What was said? did Christ speak to us and did we listen?
did we spend the rest of the service going hmmmm.. well I dont know....
hmmm that not the way Id do it....
Is the tongue or message given of so LITTLE importance that the speaker and the fact that someone didnt shibboleth exactly they way you wanted of a greater concern to you than the BODY BE EDIFIED?
What are the gifts for? are they used in your church for that purpose?
if they are, then why fuss over administrations?

Did you ever think that the reason tongues and prophetic words only have to follow ORDERLY ADMINISTRATION is because after the fact that they are ORDERLY they can be done in a variety of different styles and manners ?
The body of Christ does NOT HAVE TO FIT a mold that is of any one particular making.
Some prophecy during the worship, other do so when the pastor allows time for it, others when the announcements are to be made. Some wait until after the message and the pastor approves it for next sunday.
Others have to write them down and it will be posted in the announcements as a prophetic word.
There are no LAWS regarding the use of tongues in a church service, only that the public use of tongues be governed so as to be condusive to orderly conduct . The use of tongues spoken privately to God during worship is NOT forbidden. It doesnt have to be interpeted anymoreso than tongues is which is spoken in the prayer closet.
It is the idea of some that to speak in tongues is the same as speaking like some "old testament prophet" who was laying out scripture.
It is not the same, We understand those who speak in tongues which are interpeted and those who prophecy must agree with the WRITTEN word of God. If as has happened in the past someone spoke in error, they were INSTRUCTED more concisely about the word of God, so as to discern error before speaking, NOT to write them off as false prophets who are speak ing from the devil.
Ive heard those before too, but they have altogether a different spirit than one who erred while trying to obey the Spirit.
I would encourage you my friends to look to WHAT CHRIST IS SAYING TO YOU, rather than spend multitudes of posts disagreeing with issues that are left to liberality, or conduct.
Josiah

Just a quick note on biblical orthodoxy.
When the scriptures are silent on matters regarding pattern and conduct
we are allowed liberty.
When the scriptures are silent on governments and administrations we are allowed liberty.
The WHOLE of Christs kingdom is the LEADING OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
I would say it is NOT the plan of God to cookie cutter all believers to speak and preach like white anglosaxon, 20th century american, post modern,
conservative, dispensational teaching with a king james bible. This was not the case of the past, it will not be the case of the future, therefore let us understand that WE ARE NOT the measure of what every church should look like and act like.
Those believers who lived in the 5th century would have freaked to see us watching the trash tv we do and then blast each other with doctrinal issues as though we spent time with Christ like they did.
The believers who died as martyrs in the reformation era would have fainted to see the movies we see and the bill boards we have in the city, and the way Christians divorce each other (50%) and yet we are "free from rome".
The puritans who lived for Christ would have fully condemned our way of life, in which we allow ourselves multitudes of liberties that they would have condemned as abominations to civil and religious government.

We need each other my friends, we dont need to find some tongue talker, or some non-tongue talker to ostracize because he doesnt fit our mold.
Love and truth are compatible, UNITY is an incomprehensible act of God which occurs not because we figured out how to do it, but because God can and WILL take willing hearts who disagree and still make them one body. We are one body even if we dont believe every "shinmahondafomenow" that comes from someones mouth.
Josiah

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"The only difference between the two is that one side is accually experiance with working with tongues."

I'll take the bible over "experience" anyday, because some people with "experience" don't know God at all.

I've had experience with tongues, seen it misused in a varity of ways along with many other things. Thus why I am causious and quite biblical about it. You don't have to be, that' doesn't make you a nonchrisitan, just not biblical about tongues, that's all.

"So, in the body of believers who speak in tongues, if the congregation is just praying and lot's of people are praying in tongues there does not need to be an intrepretation. "

According to paul, you're wrong.

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Louis,

I can understand where you might think that but I will try and explain a little more fully. 

The only time that Paul seems to see it an issue is when unbelievers are present.  As previously stated, I and several others in my church, including the Pastor, are able to intrepret.  So, when unbelievers are present, there are intrepretations.

I remember one time in particular where the congregation was worshipping.  Some in tongues, and some in english.  There were unbelievers present.  The Holy Spirit moved on me in a song of compassion, compelling, and love from the Lord. 

Those unbelievers did not accept the Lord that day, but told the poeple who brought them that they were greatly touched by what God had said through that song.

This has happend many times in our services and the unbelievers have ran to the alter, without the leader asking them to do so, in order to accept the Lord.  This is very much in line with what Paul teaches.

I have another friend, who while in the hospital recovering from surgery, was approached by the surgical nurse and asked how long he had spoken Hebrew.  He told her he did not speak Hebrew.  She  then told him that while he was under anesthetic, he spoke Hebrew quite fluintly the whole time.

The surgeon, being Jewish, understood every word.  My friend Mike was glorifying God and witnessing to his Jewish doctor.

Anything can be used as a vehicle of abuse.  Including the great commission.  But, we don't stop doing it just because some have abused it.  We are to learn from their mistakes, and hopefully, not make too many of our own. 

well said quaffer

Josiah

Originally posted by josiahdefender
well said quaffer

Josiah

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Thank you Josiah . . .great name.

Welcome to the forums.  I also meant to say I enjoyed your post as well. 

I saw you needed some blessings so I gave you some    

 

Well said Quaffer and Josiah!

"It accually sounds like you have allowed your experience to interprete the scripture for you, rather then the annointing."

Not at all SNUP, I allowed the passage to interpret itself. As I have with lots of other issues.

"The body of Christ does NOT HAVE TO FIT a mold that is of any one particular making. "

I'd agree but not so far as to disregarding scripture so we don't have "mold".

"When the scriptures are silent on matters regarding pattern and conduct
we are allowed liberty. "

I'd rather error on the side of caution and flee sin then let it go and sin. Sorry.

"The only time that Paul seems to see it an issue is when unbelievers are present. As previously stated, I and several others in my church, including the Pastor, are able to intrepret. So, when unbelievers are present, there are intrepretations. "

Good, then as long as you always have an interperter you're okay. that's the point i was talking about. 1. you can't interprete your own tongues and 2. you always have to have an interpreter present.

As for they are "touched" by it, I'm glad. They were on an emotional high is when it seems like caused by a physical experience.

As for the experience of talking in hebrew, there was an interpreter there. so there ya go, thanks for supporting my points. I totally agree with that.

"When the scriptures are silent on matters regarding pattern and conduct
we are allowed liberty. "

I'd rather error on the side of caution and flee sin then let it go and sin. Sorry.

In Christ we have liberty, let me make some examples of my thinking so as to clarify to all that liberty is not sin, nor would a believer think that liberty is sin.
1. When one comes to the house of God with a women is she shaved on her head? or is she covered? Is she wearing a dress or pants?
Paul said that the "Churches have no such custom", therefore LIBERTY is granted were other scriptures would allow for freedom.
2 As I said earlier in another post, that variations in administration is
LIBERTY which was how prophecy was handled in different churches.
3. How about the LIBERTY of how a service is ordered? Can it be preaching-worship-altarcall? Can it be Worship-announcements-preaching-altarcall-fellowship? Can it be Preaching-giving-fellowship? These are liberties that the SCRIPTURES are silent about, nevertheless we may do them in which order we please and God is glorified.
Our dress, our manner, our race, our relationship with God may all be different, yet God required no set pattern or manner to perform ANY SERVICE TO HIM.
As to sin, what sin would you be refering too? I would never advocate sin
in any manner in any way. Liberty is not to be used as a means of LICENSE to walk after the flesh, but is what Im saying here license to sin? No.
Rather it is freedom from sin, and freedom from forms and rituals that have no power and can do nothing to make us closer to our Lord.

Lastly I would remark that it is never the intent of believers to step beyond
clearly understood precept from scripture. But where scripture is silent we may have liberty.
Josiah

Dear Quaffer:

Ill take all the blessings I can get. Whether it be here or anywhere.
I appreciate your kindness toward me.
Josiah