Tithing issues

[Pong]

I heard some Word of Faith preachers preaching that churches ought to pay tithe of tithes. They even said that if a church don't pay TOT they are considered as unrighteous churches. What's your take on this.I also heard some Word of Faith preachers taht delayed tithes has a fine of 1/5 or 20%? Don't you think this teaching is for those who are under mosaic law only?Thanks

 

[PastorMike]

Hi Pong, why didn't you start by asking us a hard question... just kidding...

I am not so sure, I have swayed between the two, on the one hand when you receive money you tithe off it into the move of God, but on the other hand everything that comes into the move of God is already there and is for distribution into all the smaller moves of God you are funding...

So essentially for us anyway, everything we have goes back into the ministry anyway so does that mean we are tithing 100% of our tithe?

I look forward to all the other answers...

 

[God_Owned]

Hi Pong, why didn't you start by asking us a hard question... just kidding...

I am not so sure, I have swayed between the two, on the one hand when you receive money you tithe off it into the move of God, but on the other hand everything that comes into the move of God is already there and is for distribution into all the smaller moves of God you are funding...

So essentially for us anyway, everything we have goes back into the ministry anyway so does that mean we are tithing 100% of our tithe?

I look forward to all the other answers...

These are the verses I'm zeroing in on lately. I think the Old Testament is an example, but not a law to us. I used to think that tithing was for New Testament Christians, but lately I'm starting to think that, even though tithing was before the law, that is was in fact incorporate into the law and as such is part of the law.

I think that 10% is an example, but not a requirement for Christians. As an example I start at 10% with the following scripture in mind rather than the law of the OT.

2 Corinthians 9:6-8 (KJV)
6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

Lately I've heard some, otherwise, squared away preacher getting off into some extreme legalism concerning the tithe. It seems there is an effort afoot to use OT law to extract money from Christians.

If I'm not under the law, then neither is my money.

10% is a generally held WOF teaching, but tithing, as part of the law and not for Christians, is not, but this is where I'm at with this right now.

 

[God_Owned]

2 Corinthians 9:6​

But this [I say], He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.


Note 1 at 2 Cor. 9:6: Comparing giving to sowing seed is done in other scriptures also (Prov. 11:24; Lk. 19:20-21; v. 10; Gal. 6:7-8). There is an unchangeable law of God that whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap (Gal. 6:7). Just as that works with organic seed, it also works with finances. Our giving will come back to us in the same way and with the same measure that we give (Lk. 6:38).

Many people are desiring large amounts of money from the Lord, but they haven't given Him any seed with which to produce this harvest. This will not work any more than a farmer expecting a crop where he has sown no seed. We can not use all our finances on ourselves any more than we can eat all our seed. We must sow some of our seed if we want to keep eating.

Note 2 at 2 Cor. 9:6: The Greek word "pheidomenos" was translated "sparingly" twice in this verse. It means to be stingy. These are the only times this Greek word is used in scripture. The New American Heritage Dictionary defines "stingy" as: "giving or spending reluctantly; 2. scanty or meager." Those who are reluctant to give to God will find God reluctant to give to them.

The Lord does not evaluate our gifts by their monetary size. This can be seen by His teaching about the widow's small gift (see note 1 at Lk. 21:3, p. 452). The Lord judges our gifts by what percentage we are giving and the attitude with which it is given. A million dollar gift from a millionaire could be a stingy gift while a $1 gift from someone else could be a generous gift. The Lord knows our wallet and our heart and multiplies our gifts back to us according to the way we give.

Note 3 at 2 Cor. 9:6: There are four things that take place as believers give: (1) the sincerity and proof of love is demonstrated (2 Cor. 8:8, 24); (2) we receive a blessing (Acts 20:35); (3) others' needs are met (2 Cor. 8:14; 9:12); (4) giving results in thanksgiving and praise unto God (2 Cor. 9:12).

Note 4 at 2 Cor. 9:6: Giving unto the Lord (which involves giving to others-Mt. 25:40; Heb. 6:10) is a spiritual seed (see note 1 at this verse, above) that should not be looked at as throwing something away. It is a spiritual investment that produces in this life as well as the life to come (Mk. 10:30). We will reap if we do not faint (Gal. 6:9).

Several scriptures speak of the harvest that giving brings. Here are just a few. Jesus said to a rich young ruler, ". . .give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven. . ." (Mt. 19:21). "He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again" (Prov. 19:17). "There is that scattereth, and yet increaseth; and there is that withholdeth more than is meet, but it tendeth to poverty. The liberal soul shall be made fat: and he that watereth shall be watered also himself" (Prov. 11:24-25).

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2 Corinthians 9:7
​

Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, [so let him give]; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.


Note 5 at 2 Cor. 9:7: Believers are to give as they purpose in their heart and not from pressure. The verb "purpose" means, "to resolve or intend to do." Anyone who gives under coercion is not pleasing God with his gift, regardless of the amount or fanfare associated with the gift. Reluctance (see note 2 at v. 6, above) or giving under compulsion is not pleasing unto the Lord. God loves a person who gives because he wants to-joyfully, willingly and cheerfully. Giving with the wrong motive has invalidated many Christians' giving (see note 6 at 1 Cor. 13:3, p. 938).

Note 6 at 2 Cor. 9:7: The New American Heritage Dictionary defines "grudge" as "to be reluctant to give or admit." The Greek words "ek lupe," which were translated "grudgingly," mean "EK-out of" and "LUPE-sorrow, pain, grief, annoyance, affliction." The Greek word "lupe" was translated "sorrow" 11 times (Lk. 22:45; Jn. 16:6, 20-22; 2 Cor. 2:3, 7; 7:10 [twice]; Phil. 2:27 [twice]; "heaviness" twice (Rom. 9:2; 2 Cor. 2:1); "grievous" once (Heb. 12:11); "grudgingly" once (here); and "grief" once (1 Pet. 2:19). Therefore, anyone who gives out of sorrow, pain, grief, annoyance, or affliction is not a cheerful giver and is not pleasing God with his gift (Heb. 11:6).

Often we hear testimonies of how someone was led to give a certain amount to the Lord but he resisted that leading. The Lord kept prompting him and finally he gave in and then shared with the church how he gave out of sheer obedience, not because he wanted to. Everyone applauds, but in reality, that is a sorry testimony. That is not the cheerful attitude that the Lord loves.

Most people go through stages of giving similar to stages of growth in training our children. First there is the obedience stage where we train our children to do the right thing just because we told them to. They don't have the capacity to understand completely, but they need to establish positive patterns even before their reasoning is mature. Likewise, when we first come to the Lord we need to establish this foundation of obedience.

Next, a child begins to imitate his parents' actions. This would be similar to being led by the Holy Spirit in our giving. The Holy Spirit becomes our guide and He wants us to emulate Him. There is great benefit to ourselves and others from being led by the Holy Spirit in our giving. Yet, there is still another level of giving to which Paul is referring here.

The ultimate motivation for giving is to give as we purpose in our heart, as Paul is describing here. This is comparable to a son who is serving, not just out of obedience because he fears punishment, or because he is motivated by the example of his parent (what if the parent isn't present), but because his heart has been affected to the point that it is his desire to do what's right. That's what every parent longs for and that's what the Lord desires in our giving.

If the only time we give is when the Lord tells us to, that is comparable to a child who only says he loves his father when he is told to do so. Although there is a time when that is proper, it is not the ultimate. There needs to be those times when the child says he loves his father just because that is what is in his heart.

It is true that God will tell us to give specific amounts of money at times to help meet the need of someone else or for our own personal benefit. However, it is also appropriate to give just because we want to. Those who only know how to respond to commands or specific leadings of the Holy Spirit in their giving will miss bringing joy to the Lord through their unsolicited, cheerful giving.

2 Corinthians 9:8​

And God [is] able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all [things], may abound to every good work:


Note 7 at 2 Cor. 9:8: Notice what this verse did not say. It did not say, "God will make all grace abound towards you. . ." This verse is stating that God is willing and able to supply every need of the cheerful giver, but that doesn't happen automatically. There are conditions to be met. Galatians 6:9 says, "And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not."

Note 8 at 2 Cor. 9:8: This verse completely dispels the notion that God only wants to supply our bare necessities. He is able to make all grace (in this instance, His miraculous intervention-see note 5 at Rom. 1:5, p. 740) abound towards us. The word "abound" means: (1) to be plentiful in number or amount; (2) to be fully supplied. Whatever our situation, God's grace abounds greater (Rom. 5:20).

The Lord desires that we ALWAYS have ALL sufficiency in ALL things. It is not God's will for us to suffer financially (see note 5 at 2 Cor. 8:9, p. 1020).

Note 9 at 2 Cor. 9:8: Those who argue against prosperity invariably cite the examples of those who have gathered riches to consume them upon their own lusts. They use these negative examples to make the point that those who are rich are selfish and corrupt, and then argue against prosperity on the grounds of greed. However, that is not the purpose of God giving us wealth (Dt. 8:18). As this verse states, it is so we may help others.

The purpose of God's prosperity in our lives is so that we can be the blessing to others that we need to be. Before we can be a blessing, we have to be blessed (Gen. 12:2). If we are not selfish with our riches, then wealth can be a wonderful thing.

This verse is describing an abundance of blessing to the point that we can abound to every good work. That means that we should never be unable to give to any good cause. Sad to say, that is not the case with most Christians. Satan has robbed us through "poverty thinking" and has caused many good works to go under-funded.

If you are so blessed that you don't have any more needs, then think about others and believe for more abundance so that you can be a blessing to them.

 

[God_Owned]

Financial Stewardship - The Practical Side
By Andrew Wommack In the article, “I Earned It, It’s Mine! Right?”, I wrote about the spiritual side of financial stewardship. Jesus taught more about this subject than any other, so stewardship of money is very important to God.

The Bible says in Luke 16:10-11 that if we are to be trusted with true riches of the kingdom, we must first be faithful in that which is least:

“He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much. If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?”

The first big step toward financial blessing is to recognize that God is your source. As long as you think it’s your ability and your talent that causes you to prosper, you will probably have difficulty being faithful in that which is least.

In this article, I want to address the practical side of stewardship. In the same way that faith is dead without works (James 2:20), believing for prosperity without practical knowledge about handling money won’t work either.

To help with this, I have asked a member of my Board of Directors, Paul Milligan, to join me to discuss the practical side of financial stewardship. I had planned to teach this myself, but after speaking to Paul at a recent board meeting, I felt it would be of benefit to you if I included him.

Paul has a great revelation on the application of spiritual principles in practical ways. He is the founder and owner of several corporations and Life Walk International Ministries. He has accumulated a wealth of wisdom in business and finance, and teaches these principles at business summits, in churches, Bible colleges, and other organizations across America and around the world.

Paul has been active in establishing Micro-Enterprise business ventures in third-world countries such as Kenya, Poland, Bulgaria, Sri Lanka, Mexico, and others. People living in some of the worst economic conditions are experiencing the prosperity that God’s Word promises as they follow these principles. If what he is teaching will work in those countries, and it is, it will certainly work here.

Here are some excerpts of what Paul has to say about the practical aspects of stewardship.

I have talked to Christians all over the world who tell me that they have given faithfully but still experience lack and frustration in their finances. When questioned, I usually find that they are in debt, they don’t save money, and they don’t have a plan for their financial future.

Of the ones that do have a plan, many are like my father. They are more interested in financial security than financial freedom. He was raised during the depression and then sent off to war. For the first twenty-one years of his life, the world was either trying to starve him or kill him, which accounts for that security mindset.

However, financial security is a self-centered mindset that focuses only on what a person can acquire. It’s the “get all I can, can all I get, and sit on the can” philosophy. That isn’t the way God sees it.
Second Corinthians 9:8 says,

“And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work.”

The Word teaches that if we will be good stewards of all that God gives, ready to distribute to help meet the needs of others, God is able to make all grace abound toward us so that we have an abundance. He wants us to have more than security; He wants us to have true financial freedom.

Although the church today has taught the great principles of giving and the promised blessings of God, I believe that only represents a part of what the Word teaches about finances. The spiritual side of stewardship must be complimented by the practical side.
Here is an example of what I mean. To be good stewards, we must agree with God about the purpose of money.

In Deuteronomy 8:18 we read,
“But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.”

God teaches that He does not give us wealth but He gives us the power to create wealth. This requires action on the part of the steward. There are some practical things we must do here, in the now, if we are to see financial success. Tithing and giving alone will not bring us the kind of abundance God speaks of in His Word.

One of the most neglected principles that God teaches is the storehouse principle.

Deuteronomy 28:8 says,

“The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.”

God commands a blessing on our storehouses.

However, most Christians don’t have a storehouse.

We do not save money, and therefore, we are missing
the blessing that God commands on our savings. The priority taught in the Word for our finances is: Pay God, pay yourself, and then pay everyone else.

Most Christians have learned to give (pay God), they most certainly pay everyone else, but very few pay themselves. God wants to bless your storehouse. Begin the discipline of saving money regularly, and give God something to bless. God can only bless what you have; He cannot bless what you need.

So, it begs the question, how do you save money if you’re head over heels in debt? The answer to that is part of what I teach in my seminar Establishing Your Financial House.

I teach how to create multiple streams of income (one of the fundamental secrets to creating wealth) and how to get out of debt using our Fast-Trak Method. We also teach the fundamentals of saving and investing and creating a financial family plan with obtainable goals. It’s applying the practical using the spiritual principles that Andrew has been teaching.

I guarantee you that God wants you to prosper more than you do. If you will honor God with your finances and apply practical principles, He will take better care of you accidentally than you ever could on purpose.

Both the spiritual and practical must be working together for you to experience true abundance.

 

[J4Jesus]

I remember reading a verse that say to pay more than a 10th if you dont pay it on time.

 

[Optimax]

When we started tithing about 1980, we notice that even though we were "giving away" 10% of our income, we never lacked or did without.

 

[jdispensa]

Amen bstow! Though I am guilty of not tithing regularly sometimes. God has always provided for us when we did tithe and we were hit sometimes with lack when we did not... in those times it was the mercy of God that took care of us.

If you research the tithe... one of the interesting scriptures... I will have to look it up in a sec... showed God's attitude about the tithe.
In the Old Testament God once said that if you are not able to give your tithe in to the man of God because your not near enough to the place... to take the tithe (this case was grain or something) turn it into money -(sell it - not magic) and go into town and spend it on your family. This obviously does not apply ina church sense today when sending money is just a click away on the internet but it is interesting that God was not so legalistic about it even in the Old testament that He shows His heart to the people that the Tithe is a way for them to be blessed by Him.

Now take that and look at the TV christians telling a lot of different things about the tithe.

I personaly recomend 3 things. Asking God to teach you about the tithe.
Getting a WOF teacher (Bob Yandian, Andrew Womack etc.. teaching on the subject and study it along with your bible.
Lastly Get a computer Bible program and do a word search and look at each of the instances that the Tithe is mentioned and see the circumstances that God asked them.

Ok looked it up the interesting verse was ...

Deut. 14:23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
Deut. 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deut. 14:25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
Deut. 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

 

[God_Owned]

Amen bstow! Though I am guilty of not tithing regularly sometimes. God has always provided for us when we did tithe and we were hit sometimes with lack when we did not... in those times it was the mercy of God that took care of us.

If you research the tithe... one of the interesting scriptures... I will have to look it up in a sec... showed God's attitude about the tithe.
In the Old Testament God once said that if you are not able to give your tithe in to the man of God because your not near enough to the place... to take the tithe (this case was grain or something) turn it into money -(sell it - not magic) and go into town and spend it on your family. This obviously does not apply ina church sense today when sending money is just a click away on the internet but it is interesting that God was not so legalistic about it even in the Old testament that He shows His heart to the people that the Tithe is a way for them to be blessed by Him.

Now take that and look at the TV christians telling a lot of different things about the tithe.

I personaly recomend 3 things. Asking God to teach you about the tithe.
Getting a WOF teacher (Bob Yandian, Andrew Womack etc.. teaching on the subject and study it along with your bible.
Lastly Get a computer Bible program and do a word search and look at each of the instances that the Tithe is mentioned and see the circumstances that God asked them.

Ok looked it up the interesting verse was ...

Deut. 14:23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
Deut. 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deut. 14:25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
Deut. 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

I see tithing as legalistic. I see tithing as having benefit and as an example, but no longer a legalistic requirement. In fact I believe that tithing is God's second best. I agree with Wommack's focus on giving.

 

[Optimax]

Amen bstow! Though I am guilty of not tithing regularly sometimes. God has always provided for us when we did tithe and we were hit sometimes with lack when we did not... in those times it was the mercy of God that took care of us.

If you research the tithe... one of the interesting scriptures... I will have to look it up in a sec... showed God's attitude about the tithe.
In the Old Testament God once said that if you are not able to give your tithe in to the man of God because your not near enough to the place... to take the tithe (this case was grain or something) turn it into money -(sell it - not magic) and go into town and spend it on your family. This obviously does not apply ina church sense today when sending money is just a click away on the internet but it is interesting that God was not so legalistic about it even in the Old testament that He shows His heart to the people that the Tithe is a way for them to be blessed by Him.

Now take that and look at the TV christians telling a lot of different things about the tithe.

I personaly recomend 3 things. Asking God to teach you about the tithe.
Getting a WOF teacher (Bob Yandian, Andrew Womack etc.. teaching on the subject and study it along with your bible.
Lastly Get a computer Bible program and do a word search and look at each of the instances that the Tithe is mentioned and see the circumstances that God asked them.

Ok looked it up the interesting verse was ...

Deut. 14:23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
Deut. 14:24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
Deut. 14:25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
Deut. 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

You might find the 26th chapter of Deut. interesting.
Relate what you read there to Hebrews chapter 7. Close attention given to Hebrews 7:8.

Let me know what you think if you chose to read it.

 

[PastorMike]

You might find the 26th chapter of Deut. interesting.
Relate what you read there to Hebrews chapter 7. Close attention given to Hebrews 7:8.

Let me know what you think if you chose to read it.

That is an excellent verse...

 

[Christina M]

Our ministry has always given 10% of every donation we receive. We plant it into other ministries which we consider good ground. This is before any benevolence giving we do, such as helping someone with their rent or utilities....which is giving to others, not ministries.

We consider it a blessing to be able to give...... and, as bstow said, we never lack or do without.

We do not do it in a legalistic fashion... quite the contrary, we do it with great joy and thanksgiving!

Blessed to be a blessing, amen! Isn't that what it is all about?


GOD IS GOOD!!!

 

[pdudgeon]

I start in this from a slightly different perspective....

I begin with God's promise of provision, as seen in the example of Abraham and Isaac in Genesis 22:7-13

Gen 22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here [am] I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where [is] the lamb for a burnt offering?
8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
9 ¶ And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.
10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here [am] I.
12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me.
13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind [him] a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

and i continue on with Phillippians 4:19

Phl 4:19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.

these two passages sum up for me the fact that:
1. God knows our needs and He has promised to supply whatever is necessary, including anything needed for giving back to Him.

2. Having the faith to give is a necessary part of giving.

3. Exercizing that faith is comming into agreement with God that whatever you need to give has already been provided for you by Him.

4. God will tell us whatever He requires from us if we ask Him.

I think that the example of the tithe has been given by God to teach us how to value what we have.
but concentrating only on the tithe is just skimming the surface of a very deep subject, IMHO.

 

[KingZzub]

The tithe is a vital part of any Christian's passion and enthusiasm for the Lord. Non tithers are some of the most depressed, dull Christians in the world.

 

[garymaxwell]

http://tekoapublishing.com/books/tithing/index.html

www.garycarpenter.org

 

[TheMatmanReturns]

I find it humorous that the very people who sing and shout about being "redeemed from the curse of the law" are some of the very ones who will tell you that if you don't tithe pursuant to the Old Testament, you will be under a curse.

 

[TheMatmanReturns]

ANOTHER THOUGHT

Even if we Christians are obligated to tithe, i.e. to give no less than 10% of our income under penalty of being cursed, then where do you tithe?

Must it be to a ministry? Or can it be to "the least of these"? (After all, Jesus did say that if you do it unto the least of these, you have done it unto me.)