Tithing and budgeted giving.

[dies-l]

I know that tithing can be a contentious topic on these forums. Nonetheless, I am curious as to how people here feel about it. I am interested in thoughts both about tithing as a command, as is done in some churches, and about tithing as a voluntary discipline (giving 10% of your income consistently, because you choose to).

But, I also want to add another layer to the discussion. Notwithstanding the specific amount or percentage, should we budget our giving as we would any other financial decision? What I mean is should we as Christians set aside a certain amount or percentage of our income on a consistent bases for giving to the Church or other godly causes?

Thanks for your comments.

 

[OLDGUY]

I have often been torn between this too!!
I am torn between you should not ask for money God will provide and are donations the provisions that God is speaking of.

 

[jpcedotal]

I am on the Dave Ramsey program and he believes you should budget every penny...even carry around cash that you should spontaneously give away every month.

The 10% rule has been very heatedly debated and this is where I stand. I wrote a list of everything I spend money on a month...everything. Then I arranged them in order of importance....showing that for some reason I did not have enough money to cover everything, what would I not spend money on. Where is the line?

Where does tithing rank? Should it include all charities, or just what you should give God through a church? Should it be the first thing you budget? I mean even before house, utilities, and food...right? So that is the first set of questions one we must ask ourselves.

Secondly, how much is the correct amount? But this is not what we are really asking is it? "What is the bare minimum amount so I can spend more on myself?" is closer to the real question.

Start with what you can afford every week. Take it off the top before you budget anything else....whether it is $5 or $20 or whatever. Then set a goal that you will one day, give 10% of your NET income. After you get here, make the goal 10% of your GROSS income. After this make it 20%, then 30%, then 40%, then 50%, all the way to giving 90% living off of 10%....Then go further than that.

So...in reality, one can never give enough to God until he/she gives it all to God....that sound familiar at all?

Do you think God is big enough to take care of you IF give Him control of your money instead of you controlling it? This is what I am trying to do....I am still just at the $20 a week slot right now, but this is my goal.

 

[dies-l]

Personally, I believe that the tithe is a good starting point, but I don't think that it should be done legalistically or out of obligation. Whatever a person feels compelled to give, however, I believe it should be the first thing in their budget. We should give to God first and live on what's left, rather than giving God the leftovers. I do believe that God blesses sacrificial giving, such that even when it doesn't make mathematical sense, the finances are taken care of. But, ultimately, giving should be a grateful response to God's generosity, an attempt to bribe God or to earn His favor.

 

[Amber.ly]

I personally budget EVERYTHING in my life. From my car payment to Starbucks trips and so tithe is included in my budget.

To me, tithe is not an obligation, it's a choice that I make as a way to be obedient to Christ with the understanding that He doesn't NEED my money but that I have been given resources that can help others. That's the whole point of money, to take care of yourself and others.

So I budget 10% of my Net income to tithe and 15% to ministry because that is what I feel God has asked of me. I have a sister who gives less and my parents give more but all of us are in obedience to Christ because we give willingly and with the right perspective.

Bible passages that encourage giving (or tithing, what ever you call it)
Psalm 11:24-26
Deuteronomy 12:10-12
Matthew 23:22-24
1 Corinthians chapter 11 or 12 I think

 

[98cwitr]

i still dont get tithing...makes me see the church as more of a business and the fact my pastor makes $85k a year makes it even more so. I give what I have in my pocket at the time, I give to the homeless when I have food, but I am not going to fund a church so they can buy airplanes and beach houses. I'm still a new Christian so please forgive me, Lord.

 

[dies-l]

I can't speak for your pastor, but I can say that most pastors and church employees work substantially more and earn substantially less than other people with same qualifications. The way I look at it is this: If I can't trust my church leadership with a substantial portion of my money, why should I trust them with the much more important spiritual things?

As for how much, how often, and when to give, it's not my business to dictate such things to another believer. I would challenge you to seriously think about such things, why you give or don't give and whether you trust your church leadership to use your money wisely.

 

[Amber.ly]

I agree with dies-l, if you can't trust and respect how your church handles money, how on earth will you grow under their spiritual leadership?

but I am not going to fund a church so they can buy airplanes and beach houses.

Not to pick on you personally but this is usually the crux of most tithing debates. It comes down to how you view the money you give. You have to decide who the money belongs to and who should choose where to spend that money.

It's like walking into a video store with a friend who is planning to get a bunch of games to play that day. You get to help your friend pick out some games and since it's his money you don't have a problem if he picks out a game that you don't really feel like playing. But if he wants to use YOUR money to pay for it, the whole situation changes. It gets a lot harder to spend that hard earned money when it's not something you want.

So the question becomes, are you not giving because you honestly believe that God is not pleased with how your church handles money? Or are you not giving because you don't get to control where it goes and it doesn't seem to benefit you in the end?

And let me say that I don't believe that there is a magical amount that we need to give for God to be pleased with our giving. It's all about inward obedience sparking an outward action. I believe our own personal convictions should determine specific amounts.

 

[Rimmy]

In my church, over 30% of people's tithe's are sent to missionaries we support. The other 60-something percent goes into the church account, and pays our pastor, pays for any church repairs, events, and things we need. It's also used to help out its members and other churches when needed. Last year we were able to help out a church who's building was damaged by a hurricane.

Of course, I go to a small Baptist church. I'm not sure what other churches might do.
I give 10% (or more...depending on if I can that week). Giving to God should be a priority, imo.

 

[98cwitr]

Giving to God? See I am still not wrapping by brain around that concept. God and church are not the same thing. The story of the tithing woman that Jesus speaks about is a matter of he woman's faith, and there was even a vast amount of corruption and greed in the synagogue at that time as well. Why do we need a middleman to give to God? Why not fulfill what God wants from us fiscally by directly contributing? It's easier to just hand the cash over and wash your hands of it, it's another to get down in the dirt and rebuild yourself.

The word tithe does not appear in the New Testament at all. The word offering appears 705 times in the OT, and 22 times in the NT, and the NT contexts demonstrate God's displease in offerings being offered to "make up for something."

The Lord Giveth and the Lord Taketh away...our money means nothing to Him, does it?

Hebrews 10:8
First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made)."

^^^all of these things are my current hangups with tithing.

 

[jpcedotal]

I agree Rimmy...totally. I too, am a member of a small Southern Baptist Church and go to the business meeting every month. God, through our church, distributes His money to individual families, missionaries, all sorts of charities, church upkeep, and many community/state/national/worldly human life emergencies. He pays the preacher and supplies insurance to both the preacher and his wife.

We use Parliamentary Procedure and I haven't seen one good cause get turned down.

It has always been God's money, even that cash that stays in your wallet....

 

[OLDGUY]

My problem is that I see both sides of this argument way to well.
It is not that I mind giving of what I have. My family does that.
I just have a problem becuase my understanding is that Jesus told the disciples to not take anything for payment. God would provide for them. (I know I am paraphrasing.) On the other hand God in the OT provides a lot of perks for Aaron and others (his sons) because they are priests.
After listening to this it is still hard for me to choose one way or the other.
I do give at church, but here is a true story that took place about 1 month ago.
My wife and I were at a laundry mat. (Yes we have a washer and dryer. Long sotry on this.) Anyway we overheard the woman that runs it telling her landlord she would be late with her rent. We left and got money for her. She had already left when we got back. So next day I walked up to her put the money in her hand and told her to thank God. She tried to tell me she did not need it. Then she tried to thank me. Then she cried. I told her that God loved her and he heard her and that is why I am there. Not for me but for God cause God loves her and she needs to thank Him.
So. Why should I give money to the church? Why should a preacher take money for something he was called by God to do?
Please help I really need some christian support to figure this out.

 

[dies-l]

Giving to God? See I am still not wrapping by brain around that concept. God and church are not the same thing. The story of the tithing woman that Jesus speaks about is a matter of he woman's faith, and there was even a vast amount of corruption and greed in the synagogue at that time as well. Why do we need a middleman to give to God? Why not fulfill what God wants from us fiscally by directly contributing? It's easier to just hand the cash over and wash your hands of it, it's another to get down in the dirt and rebuild yourself.

I agree God and Church are not exactly the same. But, the Church is the body of Christ and it is the main vessel by which the Kingdom of God is proclaimed and advanced. If you are going to "give to God" (which is a bit of a misnomer, because it is already God's to begin with), the Church is a good place to start.

The word tithe does not appear in the New Testament at all.

That's not true. I can think of at least two mentions of tithing in the NT: Matthew 23 and Hebrews 7. But, whether a given word appears in Scripture is not really all that relevant to whether the concept is important.

The word offering appears 705 times in the OT, and 22 times in the NT, and the NT contexts demonstrate God's displease in offerings being offered to "make up for something."

I agree that you should not give to impress God or make atonement for sin. You should give because you are grateful for the atonement you have received.

The Lord Giveth and the Lord Taketh away...our money means nothing to Him, does it?

It's all His anyway. We are mere stewards and should use it as a trustee would.

Hebrews 10:8
First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made)."

^^^all of these things are my current hangups with tithing.

I encourage you to read through the last few chapters of 2 Corinthians. Paul has a lot to say about generous giving that might help to resolve some of your hangups.

 

[Hypnos]

Give what you can afford to give. If you are in debt then you cannot afford to give. Pay your debts, get square, then give generously to those who are in need. Keep track of your giving, then declare it on your taxes; no sense paying for something twice. Don't worry about what the Divine expects you to give. Give what you can afford, it will be counted in your favor.

 

[Baptist Christian 1611]

Tithing is mentioned in the N.T. and it is a command. Malachi 3:10-Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse that there may be meat in my house and prove me now herewith saiith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receice it. But also in 2 Corinthians 9:7 we are told, Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give, not grudgingly, or of necessity, for God loveth a cheerful giver. This shows how our attitude to giving should be-cheerful and with purpose. If you think your tithes and offerings are being wasted in your church because of corruption, stand up and say something at a meeting. If that doesn't work, I would suggest finding another church. But don't use that excuse as a crutch to not tithe. Whether or not you give to the Lord, He will get the money from you one way or another, and you will be deprived of the abundant blessings described in Malachi 3:10. Haggai 1:6-"he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes." I have noticed over the years that those who do not tithe find themselves with more unexpected doctor's bills, flat tires, surprise credit card fees and similar things.

One personal story- my father is a Baptist preacher and never receive one penny for a salary because the church couldn't afford to pay one. Well, he stayed faithful with his tithes and offerings even after leaving his secular job as an accountant. On numerous occasions we would receive a check in the mail for $500 or $1,000. Sometimes the people would come directly to the house and give us money. But these were people who were mere acquaintances and didn't even know our family that well. Their reason for doing so was because "God laid it in their heart." That's the promise of Malachi 3:10.

 

[Timothew]

Giving to God? See I am still not wrapping by brain around that concept. God and church are not the same thing. The story of the tithing woman that Jesus speaks about is a matter of he woman's faith, and there was even a vast amount of corruption and greed in the synagogue at that time as well. Why do we need a middleman to give to God? Why not fulfill what God wants from us fiscally by directly contributing? It's easier to just hand the cash over and wash your hands of it, it's another to get down in the dirt and rebuild yourself.

The word tithe does not appear in the New Testament at all. The word offering appears 705 times in the OT, and 22 times in the NT, and the NT contexts demonstrate God's displease in offerings being offered to "make up for something."

The Lord Giveth and the Lord Taketh away...our money means nothing to Him, does it?

Hebrews 10:8
First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made)."

^^^all of these things are my current hangups with tithing.

When my son was very small, my wife gave him some money for the offering. When he wanted to know what the money was for she said, "It's money that you give to Jesus." When the offering plate came around, he wouldn't put the money in. We asked him why he didn't put the money in the collection, He said "I'm holding it so that I can give it to Jesus." After church, we went to one of the elders and we told our son, "If you give the money to this man, he will make sure Jesus gets it."

 

[98cwitr]

^^^still involving a middleman...let your son give it directly to Jesus...oh wait...nm

 

[jpcedotal]

God or money....that is what is being debated here. It doesn't have anything to do with the church or its leaders, because with just a little effort one could find a legit offering plate.

So it is simply "I want my money, God...sorry". Pretty it up however you want but that is picking money over God...period.

 

[OLDGUY]

God or money....that is what is being debated here. It doesn't have anything to do with the church or its leaders, because with just a little effort one could find a legit offering plate.

So it is simply "I want my money, God...sorry". Pretty it up however you want but that is picking money over God...period.

I do give money. All I really was asking was as per my example, does that count toward tithing? Or would it be consider the same? Cause the way I do it is preferable to me.

 

[98cwitr]

im picking my money over church, i'm not ashamed to admit that. If it really mattered to us that much we would give more than just money. Money affords convenience, that is ALL it does. I'd rather be cold about it than luke warm. God nor Jesus need our money, the church does and other people do. We use it to take care of one another (ie: those "less fortunate).