Tithe

[Man-ofGod]

So when do you apply the 10%? Before or after tax money.

 

[Xenon]

Before. Taxes are really payment for benefits given by the government. You earn a certain amount, then you pay them for the privilege of using the country's services. It doesn't mean that you make less.

 

[djconklin]

Same. When we were first told about tithing my dad wasn't too sure about it. But, after doing it he said with some amazement that the remaining 90% worked like it was 110%!

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Before. Taxes are really payment for benefits given by the government. You earn a certain amount, then you pay them for the privilege of using the country's services. It doesn't mean that you make less.

Is the tithe paid on the money that you pay into the governments services, or the money you get out of the government services?

 

[Xenon]

Is the tithe paid on the money that you pay into the governments services, or the money you get out of the government services?

Neither. I pay it out of my gross earnings. I don't factor in taxes in any way, shape, or form.

 

[trubeautie]

I choose before, because that amount represents my earnings.

 

[Idol Breaker]

On the same lines, is paid before taxes, do you claim you tithes on your income tax return? If so, why? If not, why? Can you provide Biblical support for your answer?

 

[Xenon]

On the same lines, is paid before taxes, do you claim you tithes on your income tax return? If so, why? If not, why? Can you provide Biblical support for your answer?

Jesus told us to follow the laws of the land, as long as they don't contradict what God says. The US allows a person to claim tithe as part of an itemized deduction. In fact, the tax code encourages you to do an itemized deduction if it would put you over the standard deduction. I don't do an itemized deduction because the standard is greater. If I did, then I see no reason to lie and say that I didn't pay any tithe.

Besides, there really is no reason not to do so. I've already paid my tithe to God, and so it is not taking that back from Him. If the government wants to return some tax money to me for paying tithe, then I don't see any reason not to.

 

[Idol Breaker]

Jesus told us to follow the laws of the land, as long as they don't contradict what God says.

Actually what Jesus said was "Render therefore unto Cesear the things that are Cesear's; and unto God the things that are God's." Matt. 22:21

The US allows a person to claim tithe as part of an itemized deduction. In fact, the tax code encourages you to do an itemized deduction if it would put you over the standard deduction. I don't do an itemized deduction because the standard is greater.

Just because "Cesear" allows an action does not necessarily make that action the right thing to do. There are many things the different state governments of the US allow that I, as a Christian, would not do because it goes against what is morally and ethically wrong.

If I did, then I see no reason to lie and say that I didn't pay any tithe.

In what sense would not claiming tithes be a lie? You aren't defrauding anybody out of anything by not claiming a tithe, or for that matter by not claiming any acceptable deduction. Can you be thrown in jail for NOT claim a deduction? No, so there is no wrong committed by not claim any deductions, including tithes.

Besides, there really is no reason not to do so. I've already paid my tithe to God, and so it is not taking that back from Him. If the government wants to return some tax money to me for paying tithe, then I don't see any reason not to.

And that is the logic most people have when it comes to tithes. Let's look at the implications of this situation.

You pay tithes to God. You then claim the tithes on your taxes. The Government than pays you back the tithes you paid. So tell me, who's actually pay the tithes to God? By claiming tithes on your taxes you are actually forcing the Government to pay your tithes, in essence, now instead of stealing from God you're stealing from Cesear. If you think it through logically you'll see reasoning in all this.

 

[InspiredTruth]

I usually give about 10-13% .. hope to give more as I get older (percentage wise)

 

[Aibrean]

Before - "the first fruits". I am currently not tithing because I don't like how the church was handling the money. I'm attending a different church where I intend to give 10%.

 

[Xenon]

Actually what Jesus said was "Render therefore unto Cesear the things that are Cesear's; and unto God the things that are God's." Matt. 22:21

Whoops, you're correct. It was Paul who said it.

Rom 13:1, 2 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

Naturally, God is higher than the rulers that are in power, and so He is to be obeyed first. Next in line is our earthly rulers.

You pay tithes to God. You then claim the tithes on your taxes. The Government than pays you back the tithes you paid. So tell me, who's actually pay the tithes to God? By claiming tithes on your taxes you are actually forcing the Government to pay your tithes, in essence, now instead of stealing from God you're stealing from Cesear. If you think it through logically you'll see reasoning in all this.

In this case "Cesear" specifically has it in the law books that you can deduct your charitable contributions from your taxes, including any contribution to a church. This includes tithe. Stealing would be claiming it on your taxes if they did not allow you to, and would have to be done so fraudulently. Stealing would also be not paying tithe to God. Neither of these things are happening.

Don't get me wrong, because I see what you are trying to say. But again, if the government wants to collect less money from you because of paying tithe to God, then that is the government's business. The tithe will be paid either way.

 

[Shrewsbury]

As someone very new to the SDA church, should I pay tithe, or is it only for church members? Thank you.

 

[OntheDL]

As someone very new to the SDA church, should I pay tithe, or is it only for church members? Thank you.

The tithe is for the spreading of the Word of God. So it applies to anyone. That does not confine it to giving your tithe to particular organization or church, but to anyone, any means that spreads the good news of the cross, the judgment and the advent.

 

[OldStudent]

Before - "the first fruits". I am currently not tithing because I don't like how the church was handling the money. I'm attending a different church where I intend to give 10%.

I appreciate that you took to option to not pay tithe "because I don't like how the church was handling the money." You don't want to be responsible for support/enabling certain questionable activites or policies. But since you brought the idea to the public I would like to also offer a couple of observations from statements Jesus made.

Please don't take what follows in a loud tone. I offer it for your consideration and the consideration of others who have or are facing frustrations like yours.

"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's" Matt 22:21; Mk 1217; Lk 20:25. Jesus was holding money in His hand as He made this statement (though the application principle may be taken more broadly). This statment was issued to answer a question posed by some men in the General Conference who were trying to trip Him up. Jesus perceived the "wickedness" behind the question. It is worth asking, "How do you render to God what is His?"

Consider also the incident regarding a widow as recorded in Mark 12 and Luke 21. She received a high commendation from Jesus the likes of which He made to very few others. Compared to others who had lined up "pay their dues" Jesus said her offering was without peer. She expressed love and faith well beyond and generally incomprehensible to anyone else in that line. She made her expression through her gift to God into the coffers of the "church." This was Tuesday. That church saw to it that Jesus (their Creator - their Messiah - the object of the sacrifices and services of the Temple) was hanging on a cross by Friday. Jesus' allegiance to His church, such as it was, seems outrageous. And the widow was likely giving an offering, an optional offering above tithe.

I draw from this that God accepts our offerings through His church as expressions to Him. It seems that when His love draws such gifts from us it is not our concern to judge how it gets used. He will deal with those who are His "called" if they be the likes of Nadab and Abihu, Hophni and Phinnias, or Pharisees, or others of the Sanhedrin (those in the Conference office).

 

[Aibrean]

OldStudent - no idea why you are rehashing something that is 2 years old. I would not be a cheerful giver if I knew what I gave wasn't been spent appropriately. Instead, I donated my money to faith-based charities (like St. Vincent). I currently do tithe at my new church as well as offer half off discounts to other churches for design work (and while at the old church I designed and maintained their website for free which was giving of myself). Giving to God was giving my skills to him by working for the church.

 

[JohnMarsten]

If tithes are still binding, then (and thats my question) do all the laws still apply that were given in regard to tithing or is it narrowed to sponsoring the church only??