'tis about That Time ?

[Widdekind]

Divine schedule ?

the following "chialist" simple & straight-forward reading of Revelation was common, in early Christianity, under the persistent persecutions, of pagan Imperial Rome; numerous sources are citable:

Tribulation (Rev 12-17) = pagan Imperial persecutions of early Christianity (e.g. Nero, Domitian, Diocletian) (1st - 3rd centuries AD)

Fall of Babylon (Rev 18-19) = fall of pagan Empire of Rome (4th-5th centuries AD)
Holy Warrior (Rev 19) = Emperor Constantine (4th century AD)
Millennial Kingdom (Rev 20:1-6) = Byzantine Empire of Christian Constantinople

Satan un-bound (Rev 20:7) = conquest of Christian Constantinople (15th century AD)
End-Times (Rev 20:8-9) (15th century AD - present)

Gog & Magog = global international Communism et al.​

Doomsday (Rev 20:10)
Divine Victory (Rev 20:11+)​

'tis about That Time ?

For thousands of years, Jews (and hence Christians) have reckoned the beginning of Biblical time to circa 4000 BC. And, in the early Christian era, Jews & Christians reckoned that Divine Plan would unfold over circa 6000 years. So, in ancient times, Judaeo-Christians predicted that Doomsday would occur circa 2000 AD. For example, in the first century AD, the Apostle Barnabas wrote:

He speaks of the Sabbath at the beginning of the Creation, "And God made in six days the works of his hands and on the seventh day he made an end, and rested in it and sanctified it." Notice, children, what is the meaning of "He made an end in six days"? He means this: that the Lord will make an end of everything in six thousand years, for a day with him means a thousand years ... So then, children, in six days, that is in six thousand years, everything will be completed. "And he rested on the seventh day." This means, when his Son comes he will destroy the time of the wicked one, and will judge the godless, and will change the sun and the moon and the stars, and then he will truly rest on the seventh day (Epistle of Barnabas, 15:3-5)

And, in the third century AD, Hippolytus of Rome wrote:

And 6,000 years must needs be accomplished, in order that the Sabbath may come, the rest, the holy day "on which God rested from all His works." For the Sabbath is the type and emblem of the future kingdom of the saints, when they "shall reign with Christ," when He comes from heaven, as John says in his Apocalypse: for "a day with the Lord is as a thousand years." Since, then, in six days God made all things, it follows that 6, 000 years must be fulfilled (Hippolytus. On the HexaËmeron, Or Six Days' Work).

Also in the third century AD, Rabbi Kettina taught:

In Rosh Hashanah 31a and Sanhedrin 97a, Kettina predictes that the world will exist for six thousand years, and then, in the seventh millenium, be utterly destroyed. His view is based on an interpretation of Isaiah 11:11, in which the word day is said to be reckoned by God as one thousand years. Psalm 90:4 uses a similar metaphor (Kolatach. Masters of the Talmud, p.244.)

Other Rabbinical contemporaries concurred:

Rabbi Kattina taught:

Six thousand years shall the world exist, and one thousand, the seventh, it shall be desolate, as it is written [Deuteronomy 15:1], "And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day." ... Just as the seventh year is one year of release in seven, so is the world: one thousand years out of seven shall be fallow.​

To which Rabbi Eliyyahu replies:

The world is to exist six thousand years. In the first two thousand there was desolation [no Torah]; two thousand years the Torah flourished; and the next two thousand years is the Messianic era, but through our many iniquities all these years have been lost.​

(Sanhedrin 93b)

R. Kattina said: Six thousand years shall the world exist, and one [thousand, the seventh], it shall be desolate, as it is written, And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day [Isaiah 2:11].

Abaye said: it will be desolate two [thousand], as it is said, After two days will he revive us: in the third day, he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight [Hosea 6:2].

It has been taught in accordance with R. Kattina: Just as the seventh year is one year of release in seven, so is the world: one thousand years out of seven shall be fallow, as it is written, And the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day [ibid.]; and it is further said, A Psalm and song for the Sabbath day [Psalm 92:1], meaning the day that is altogether Sabbath; and it is also said, For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past [Psalm 90:4].

The Tanna debe Eliyyahu teaches: The world is to exist six thousand years. In the first two thousand there was desolation [no Torah]; two thousand years the Torah flourished; and the next two thousand years is the Messianic era, but through our many iniquities all these years have been lost.

(Sanhedrin 97)

This tradition seems echoed, in "Maya 2012" and the "Prophesy of the Popes".




Tribulation lasted 300 years, End-Times to last as long ?

Circa 30 AD, Jesus' earthly ministry cast Satan down onto earth (Luke 10:18). And, the Tribulation period, from that moment (Rev 12:10) to the (first) defeat of the Devil via the victory of Christianity (Rev 12:12 = Rev 19), lasted only a "short span" in Biblical terms; but lasted several centuries (during which Christians were persistently persecuted) in human terms (cp. 2 Pet 3:8).

Similarly, the End-Times period, from the un-binding of Satan (Rev 20:7) to Doomsday (Rev 20:10), is Prophesied to last only a "little time" in Biblical terms. Qualitatively, "short span" seems similar to "little time". So, the End-Times is apparently Prophesied to last some similar span of time, i.e. "several centuries". And, the span of time, from the 15th to 21st centuries AD, is both crudely qualitatively similar, to the several centuries of pagan persecutions of Christians; and also points to the same present epoch, circa 2000 AD, as "about That Time".

 

[zeke37]

besides the possibility of the 6000 year mark being important,
the rest of what you wrote is nonsense

 

[PreachingChristCrucified]

besides the possibility of the 6000 year mark being important,
the rest of what you wrote is nonsense

and I took that part (the 6,000 years) to be Dispensationalist dribble.

So pretty much the whole thing is nonsense.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Considering that we have human settlements older than 6,000 years old, trying to use such chronologies to try and time stamp the future is inherently faulty. Damascus has been continuously inhabited for over 8,000 years, with the oldest human settlements in the region going back 11,000 years.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Aconba]

...

 

[zeke37]

Considering that we have human settlements older than 6,000 years old, trying to use such chronologies to try and time stamp the future is inherently faulty. Damascus has been continuously inhabited for over 8,000 years, with the oldest human settlements in the region going back 11,000 years.

-CryptoLutheran

oh, i'm one that believes the world is billions of years old,
and mankind has been here longer than 6000 years....prob more like 8,000 years.
I do however think that Adam was a marker, at 6000 years ago.
because I believe the world was "baptized" or reborn in Gen1:2,
not created, but recreated.

created in Gen1:1, but then the world became a ruin,
it was not created that way

and Gen2 is not a retelling of Gen1.
the garden of Eden and Adam, were planted sometime after the 7th day of rest.

so maybe it took God 6000 years (6 days) to baptize the planet from Gen1:2 till mankind.
and He put mankind here at the beginning of the 6th day (6000 years in)
and then after that 6th day, (after 6000 years) He rests for a day (1000 years)

and then sometime after that 7th day of rest, (after 7000 years)
and after mankind was put here on earth (after 6000 years),
Adam is formed in the garden
we don't know how long after mankind, that Adam was formed.

but sure, from Adam, it's been appx. 6000 years.

does anyone have any "evidence" that we were here longer than that?
old civilizations etc.?
links?

you mentioned 11,000 year old civs. so do you have a link?

 

[mog144]

oh, i'm one that believes the world is billions of years old,
and mankind has been here longer than 6000 years....prob more like 8,000 years.
I do however think that Adam was a marker, at 6000 years ago.
because I believe the world was "baptized" or reborn in Gen1:2,
not created, but recreated.

created in Gen1:1, but then the world became a ruin,
it was not created that way

and Gen2 is not a retelling of Gen1.
the garden of Eden and Adam, were planted sometime after the 7th day of rest.

so maybe it took God 6000 years (6 days) to baptize the planet from Gen1:2 till mankind.
and He put mankind here at the beginning of the 6th day (6000 years in)
and then after that 6th day, (after 6000 years) He rests for a day (1000 years)

and then sometime after that 7th day of rest, (after 7000 years)
and after mankind was put here on earth (after 6000 years),
Adam is formed in the garden
we don't know how long after mankind, that Adam was formed.

but sure, from Adam, it's been appx. 6000 years.

does anyone have any "evidence" that we were here longer than that?
old civilizations etc.?
links?

you mentioned 11,000 year old civs. so do you have a link?

You have some valid points in your theology concerning the earth and the time of A&E. Have you read the ancient books of Adam and Eve? If not, you will find supporting passages in the first book, at least.
The Forgotten Books of Eden: The First Book of Adam and Eve: The First Book of Adam and Eve

 

[Widdekind]

The Supra-natural is not necessarily limited by the natural. The wondrous influences of "God in heaven", upon planet earth, could have begun, at any time in the prehistoric past, regardless of whatever was then occurring on this world.

Scripture itself unambiguously dates itself to c.4000 BC (Genesis genealogies). And, many prominent Judaeo-Christian Religious leaders have perceived a purportedly-Prophesied "6000-year Divine Plan" for humans on earth.

Separately, i.e. logically independently, 1600 years ago, St. Augustine of Hippo perceived, in his day, the Prophetic fulfillment of the Christian conquest of pagan Imperial Rome (Rev 19), i.e. Constantine; and, so, the beginning the Millennial Kingdom (Rev 20:1-4), i.e. the beginning of the Byzantine Empire, from its capital of Christian Constantinople. Over the past 1600 years, human history has Prophetically fulfilled five further verses (Rev 20:5-9a), e.g. Father Seraphim Rose perceives, in this day, the Prophetic fulfillment of "Satanic attack" against Christianity (which everybody loves to hate) recorded in Rev 20:7-9:

In our age of apostasy preceding the manifestation of anti-Christ, the Devil has been loosed for a time (Rev 20:7) to work the false miracles which he could not work during the "thousand years" of Grace in the Church of Christ (Rev 20:3)... We can tell that the time of anti-CHrist is truly near, by the very fact, that this Satanic harvest is now being reaped not merely among the pagan peoples, who have not heard of Christ, but even more among "Christians" who have lost the savor of Christianity (Father Seraphim Rose. Orthodoxy & Religion of the Future, p.188)[/COLOR

So, some Religious leaders have perceived the perpetual Prophetic fulfillments, of the "Scriptural Schedule" of Divine Plan, from Rev 20:4 to Rev 20:7-9, over the past 1600 years. Uncritically accepted, mankind "stands" within a single sentence of the Apocalypse (Rev 20:9b) when earth passes away. I.e. the Apocalypse is "Biblically imminent".

But, "Biblically speaking", a day (or a night, i.e. ~12 hours) could be a thousand years (Psalm 90:4, 2 Peter 3:8), so that an hour could be a hundred years. If, regarding the actualization of Prophesies, "no human knows the day [millennium] or hour [century]" (Matt 24:36), then all that can be said, is that the Apocalypse is Prophesied to be "Biblically soon" (Rev 20:3), seemingly within the next "Biblical hour" (century) or "Biblical day" (millennium).